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Thread: Eysenck

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    Expat's Avatar
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    I have seen some material (also a very long test, which I didn't take) on Eysenck here: http://www.trans4mind.com/personality/EPQ.html

    Among other things, there is this list of temperaments:

    • stable extraverts (sanguine qualities such as - outgoing, talkative, responsive, easygoing, lively, carefree, leadership)
    • unstable extraverts (choleric qualities such as - touchy, restless, excitable, changeable, impulsive, irresponsible)
    • stable introverts (phlegmatic qualities such as - calm, even-tempered, reliable, controlled, peaceful, thoughtful, careful, passive)
    • unstable introverts (melancholic qualities such as - quiet, reserved, pessimistic, sober, rigid, anxious, moody).
    It seems to me that some people are mixing it up with Augusta's socionics. Any comments?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    machintruc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Any comments?
    I think I'd be Phlegmatic-Sanguine or something. But I hate Eysenck's typology because it's discriminatory bullshit.

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    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Hi, I previously did a bit of research into a similar sort of thing. Im not as aware of Eyesencks work on this (or if it was entirely his work)

    As I understand it, these types of description go back to a theory proposed by Galen, where he tied in a persons build (morphology) with what he saw as 4 basic temperaments, defining them as Sanguine, Melancholia, Choleric and Phleg-matic.

    His work was based on the the ancient presumption of bodily humours as controlling ones psyche, and accordingly was one of the first such theories.

    He believed that these as aspects were inherent and that build and also physiology were more or less stable throughout a persons life.
    Last edited by Cyclops; 02-25-2008 at 01:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    I have seen some material (also a very long test, which I didn't take) on Eysenck here: http://www.trans4mind.com/personality/EPQ.html

    Among other things, there is this list of temperaments:
    • stable extraverts (sanguine qualities such as - outgoing, talkative, responsive, easygoing, lively, carefree, leadership)
    • unstable extraverts (choleric qualities such as - touchy, restless, excitable, changeable, impulsive, irresponsible)
    • stable introverts (phlegmatic qualities such as - calm, even-tempered, reliable, controlled, peaceful, thoughtful, careful, passive)
    • unstable introverts (melancholic qualities such as - quiet, reserved, pessimistic, sober, rigid, anxious, moody).
    It seems to me that some people are mixing it up with Augusta's socionics. Any comments?
    I can't say I know a lot about cholerics (other than I dislike them in close quarters), but I do believe that those qualities ought to be attributed to the Sanguine. Does anyone else notice that the San and Phleg qualities are good, while the Chlor and Mel qualities are bad? Is that how they are on the website, Expat?

    EDIT: *reads first page* Psht. That man does not seem to know what he's talking about. Every temperament can be stable or unstable. There aren't two that are automatically neurotic.

    BTW, machintruc - Hippocrates was the first to talk about the 4 humours.
    Last edited by Cuddly McFluffles; 02-25-2008 at 02:45 PM.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    EDIT: *reads first page* Psht. That man does not seem to know what he's talking about. Every temperament can be stable or unstable. There aren't two that are automatically neurotic.
    Eysenck's temperaments don't refer to Socionic temperaments, if that's what you're assuming. According to Eysenck's description of the 'Neuroticism' dimension (identified using factor analysis), which he related back to differences in peoples' nervous systems, people with high neuroticism could be called "unstable".

    He didn't start with the temperaments and then say two of them must be unstable or two of them are automatically neurotic. He just identified those two factors (which exist on a continuum btw), and then noted that combinations of different positions on each continuum vaguely correspond to the 4 ancient humours/temperaments.

    I think Eysenck's work is pretty good, especially because it posits biological factors which contribute towards differences in personality. He does know what he is talking about.


    Expat, who have you seen mixing Eysenck with Socionics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    Expat, who have you seen mixing Eysenck with Socionics?
    I heard some noises.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    Eysenck's temperaments don't refer to Socionic temperaments, if that's what you're assuming. According to Eysenck's description of the 'Neuroticism' dimension (identified using factor analysis), which he related back to differences in peoples' nervous systems, people with high neuroticism could be called "unstable".

    He didn't start with the temperaments and then say two of them must be unstable or two of them are automatically neurotic. He just identified those two factors (which exist on a continuum btw), and then noted that combinations of different positions on each continuum vaguely correspond to the 4 ancient humours/temperaments.

    I think Eysenck's work is pretty good, especially because it posits biological factors which contribute towards differences in personality. He does know what he is talking about.


    Expat, who have you seen mixing Eysenck with Socionics?
    I knew they didn't, much as Keirsey's attempt to fit them into his stuff doesn't work. *shrugs* Perhaps. But didn't Expat copy those lines from the site in question? He makes being Choleric or Melancholy look like a weakness with all the negative traits he lists. That's what ticks me off. Sanguines can be neurotic. What about their lax morals and their need for attention? If he presented things differently, I might agree that he had something, but until I see more of his work (and it doesn't look like this), I don't believe he does.
    Johari/Nohari

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryene Astraelis View Post
    I knew they didn't, much as Keirsey's attempt to fit them into his stuff doesn't work. *shrugs* Perhaps. But didn't Expat copy those lines from the site in question? He makes being Choleric or Melancholy look like a weakness with all the negative traits he lists. That's what ticks me off. Sanguines can be neurotic. What about their lax morals and their need for attention? If he presented things differently, I might agree that he had something, but until I see more of his work (and it doesn't look like this), I don't believe he does.
    Hmm well firstly, Eysenck didn't create that website, so you can't say "the man doesn't know what he is talking about" when you're referring exclusively to what is presented on that website.

    The other thing is, look at the description of the neuroticism factor:

    Neuroticism or emotionality is characterized by high levels of negative affect such as depression and anxiety. Neuroticism, according to Eysenck's theory, is based on activation thresholds in the sympathetic nervous system or visceral brain. This is the part of the brain that is responsible for the fight-or-flight response in the face of danger. Activation can be measured by heart rate, blood pressure, cold hands, sweating and muscular tension (especially in the forehead). Neurotic people, who have low activation thresholds, and unable to inhibit or control their emotional reactions, experience negative affect (fight-or-flight) in the face of very minor stressors - they are easily nervous or upset. Emotionally stable people, who have high activation thresholds and good emotional control, experience negative affect only in the face of very major stressors - they are calm and collected under pressure.
    considering this, then what else can you expect in descriptions of a set of people defined to be high in neuroticism? I don't think there's any value judgement being made (perhaps there is on your part), its just a description which follows from what it means to be high in this neuroticism factor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post

    Eysenck continued Jung's work. Eysenck's extroversion scale goes from low to high arousal. His emotional stability scale goes from low to high inhibition.
    hmm, have you got these the right way around? this site: http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/eysenck.html suggests that inhibition is related to extroversion

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    I think I'd be Phlegmatic-Sanguine or something. But I hate Eysenck's typology because it's discriminatory bullshit.
    I totally agree. If you're unstable, that's it. You're fucked. And who the fuck wants to be unstable?

    I wonder how the temperaments correspond to those of Keirsey's.

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    So fluffeh. Cuddly McFluffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    Hmm well firstly, Eysenck didn't create that website, so you can't say "the man doesn't know what he is talking about" when you're referring exclusively to what is presented on that website.
    You have a point. So I should say that if this is really what he thinks, then I have issues with him. Thanks for handling it maturely. I'm being sincere, by the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    The other thing is, look at the description of the neuroticism factor:

    (Quote)

    considering this, then what else can you expect in descriptions of a set of people defined to be high in neuroticism? I don't think there's any value judgement being made (perhaps there is on your part), its just a description which follows from what it means to be high in this neuroticism factor.
    I'll address this later. I have something I have to finish.
    Johari/Nohari

    "Tell someone you love them today, because life is short; shout it at them in German, because life is also terrifying."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    I use the four temperaments and four modes when I type, obviously.



    Galen's temperaments were based on relative differences in "response delay" and "response sustain" times.

    Pavlov refers to these as "arousal" and "inhibition".

    Jung continued Pavlov's work. Extroverted types had a high sustain/delay ratio. Introverted types had a low sustain/delay ratio.

    Eysenck continued Jung's work. Eysenck's extroversion scale goes from low to high arousal. His emotional stability scale goes from low to high inhibition.
    This makes me think of Model T.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    It seems to me that some people are mixing it up with Augusta's socionics. Any comments?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi View Post
    I use the four temperaments and four modes when I type, obviously.

    Galen's temperaments were based on relative differences in "response delay" and "response sustain" times.

    Pavlov refers to these as "arousal" and "inhibition".

    Jung continued Pavlov's work. Extroverted types had a high sustain/delay ratio. Introverted types had a low sustain/delay ratio.

    Eysenck continued Jung's work. Eysenck's extroversion scale goes from low to high arousal. His emotional stability scale goes from low to high inhibition.

    lmao.

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    Ti centric krieger's Avatar
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    Does the Unstable/Stable dichotomy relate to Dynamic/Static or to Irrational/Rational in socionics? I could see an argument for both ways. *nevermind; the descriptions are quite unequivocal: it's Irrational/Rational.

    It's interesting that this stuff is clinically provable. All that remains is for a similar way of testing clubs to be devised, and you'd have a full-blown proof of socionics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by labcoat View Post
    Does the Unstable/Stable dichotomy relate to Dynamic/Static or to Irrational/Rational in socionics?
    No, it doesn't. I think 62% of Unstables are Negativists and 62% of Stables are Positivists.

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    The way those descriptions are written I find it rather naïve to think those groups correlate with anything other than the temperaments in socionics.

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