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Thread: Movie directors

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    what about wes anderson?


    btw, i always thought woody was IEI
    He's certainly got an incredible bit of nuance to him. I could quote his movies ('Crimes and Misdemeanors' comes immediately to mind), but I should probably go sleepy-bye.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    That line of reasoning leads nowhere.

    If you go to Delta via "NF" -- then why not the Beta NFs? If what you say is characteristic of NFs generally, then it is also of EIEs - the conflictors of the SLIs. And anything that is as valid for EIEs as for SLIs, according to your reasoning, is either not type related or counter-productive to your case.

    ....

    That is the problem of using the clubs in socionics; they are split into opposing quadras.
    Well not exactly. Both Betas and Deltas are "aristocratic," which is supposed to mean something. I'm not saying that I see any case for Hitchcock having qualities associated with the words "aristocratic" as opposed to "democratic," but just that the fact that "opposing" quadras are opposed in some ways doesn't mean that they don't have similarities based on club. Anyhow, we were comparing whether he was Alpha or Delta, so the possibility that he could be Beta didn't even enter into it.

    I think you are mixing Si with Te.
    Could be. Is solving things step by step, figuring out how best to come at answers, seeking the heart of the matter in a mystery by using logic an indication primarily of Si? If so, that would explain my confusion.

  3. #43
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    Wes Anderson makes amazingly good movies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Anyhow, we were comparing whether he was Alpha or Delta, so the possibility that he could be Beta didn't even enter into it.
    But it must, if you go via the NF route -- I don't think he was Beta; I just think that your "psychology" argument for Delta, the way it was put, is not very persuasive.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    Could be. Is solving things step by step, figuring out how best to come at answers, seeking the heart of the matter in a mystery by using logic an indication primarily of Si? If so, that would explain my confusion.
    Again, I don't see what he did in that way at all. I don't think he "sought the heart of the mystery by using logic"; his approach to movies, in my opinion, and according to what he said, not only in those clips, was to see them as a scary amusement park ride -- what matters is the emotions in a moment-by-moment basis (and that is indeed Si), not so much the plot. Now, of course a movie must have a script, and they will have the "mystery", but that aspect of filmmaking did not seem to interest Hitchcock at all; in fact, I think he always discussed his movies from the point of view of how to construct particular scenes, not really from the point of view of the plot.

    Again, why do you think that "figuring out how best to come at answers, seeking the heart of the matter in a mystery by using logic" particularly interested him? He did not seem ever to discuss his movies from that point of view - rather, again, on how to construct individual scenes. And that is related to Si.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    But it must, if you go via the NF route -- I don't think he was Beta; I just think that your "psychology" argument for Delta, the way it was put, is not very persuasive.
    Well, maybe I didn't articulate as well as I could have, but I think the argument is valid that this interest in the "inner psychology" of people is more associated with Delta and Alpha. But I'm not going to belabor the point because I'm not that passionately convinced of his type....I just see some evidence for SLI, that's all.

    Again, I don't see what he did in that way at all. I don't think he "sought the heart of the mystery by using logic"; his approach to movies, in my opinion, and according to what he said, not only in those clips, was to see them as a scary amusement park ride -- what matters is the emotions in a moment-by-moment basis (and that is indeed Si), not so much the plot. Now, of course a movie must have a script, and they will have the "mystery", but that aspect of filmmaking did not seem to interest Hitchcock at all; in fact, I think he always discussed his movies from the point of view of how to construct particular scenes, not really from the point of view of the plot.

    Again, why do you think that "figuring out how best to come at answers, seeking the heart of the matter in a mystery by using logic" particularly interested him? He did not seem ever to discuss his movies from that point of view - rather, again, on how to construct individual scenes. And that is related to Si.
    It's his characters who are like that. And in my opinion, he does the mystery thing better than most people. His characters ask reasonable questions, and the plots make sense much more than those of lesser directors.

    In any event, I've never perceived his movies to be weak on plot. There are films where the plot is a just a device to have special effects, humor, and so forth. The Rambo films are a good example of movies where the plot doesn't matter much. On the high-art end, the film by Fellini I referred to before (8 1/2) is a good example of a film which purposely has minimal plot.

    But Hitchcock films tend to have great stories. And I don't think that his comments implied he doesn't think plot is important. What he doesn't think is important is details that aren't related to the psychological or artistic dimension. As he said, if people are looking for the plans to the fort, who cares what the plans to the fort say? It's the fact that they're looking for them, or fighting over them. Good storytelling is more about overall paradigms than getting into details that have nothing to the drama, the pacing, keeping the audience's attention.

    Of course none of that argues against SEI. SEIs are supposed to be good storytellers, aren't they? It's just that Si-based storytelling is different from Ni-based storytelling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonathan View Post
    It's his characters who are like that. And in my opinion, he does the mystery thing better than most people. His characters ask reasonable questions, and the plots make sense much more than those of lesser directors.
    That's the essence of our disagreement. I don't think it's accurate to think of "his" characters at all. He did not write the vast majority of his scripts, and I haven't seen evidence that he cared about character development much. Rather than "his characters", I think it's much more accurate to think of "his scenes". He seemed much more interested - not only in those clips - to discuss how to construct a scene, rather than how to develop a character. Of course, his films are "concrete" in terms of plot rather than "vague" or "abstract" like Fellini's or, say, Godard's, but I think it's just wrong to attribute to Hitchcock's type traits observed in the characters of his movies.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by he died with a felafel View Post
    i'm not certain about pasolini being an infp.

    his work and life seem to me very much that of a humanist (i don't use it as the equivalent of infj ). his work is grave instead of merry. dwelling on the human condition and psychology running the gamut from myth to politics to Freudian theory . his film aesthetics are difficult to assess since his shtick was to go against the predominant aesthetics in art. his films were also philosophical and political at the expense of plot and aesthetics.
    Precisely. Little interest in and .

    Quote Originally Posted by he died with a felafel View Post
    he was also a journalist and a communist amidst other things. i can't ascertain that this little i'm writing here (due to lack of time for the moment) speaks against infp, but here and there i pick Fi dominance and at other times i just think he might as well have been an enfj.
    I couldn't argue strongly against ENFj.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    A few guesses..alot of these are probably pretty off.

    Quentin Tarantino - ENTj
    Rainer Werner Fassbinder - ENFj....he seems to enjoy portraying 'tortured' characters.
    Jean-Luc Godard - INFp
    Agnes Varda - I'm guessing Gamma or Beta Introvert, Ethical. I've only seen Le Bonheur, La Pointe Courte, and bits of Vagabond.
    Francois Truffaut - ENFp or beta NF..I get mixed vibes from his films.
    Luis Bunuel - ENTp
    Eric Rohmer - Maybe an introverted Gamma or Delta type
    Robert Bresson - ISFj (?)
    Stanley Kubrick - INTp
    John Cassavetes - ENTp or ENTj
    Orson Welles - ENTj
    Martin Scorsese - Beta NF
    David Fincher - ISTj (?)
    Akira Kurosawa - INFj (?)
    Sergio Leone - INTp (?)
    Andrei Tarkovsky - Beta NF
    Ingmar Bergman - INFp
    Wes Anderson - ISFp
    Sofia Coppola - ISFp (?)
    Victor Erice - INFj (?)
    Theo Angelopoulos - Maybe INFp? While I've only seen Ulysses' Gaze so far, his style reminds me alot of Andrei Tarkovsky's.
    Yasujiro Ozu - INFj (?)
    Last edited by suedehead; 02-19-2014 at 03:00 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    A few guesses..

    Quentin Tarantino - ENTj
    Rainer Werner Fassbinder - ESFp, ENTj or ENFj....he seems to enjoy portraying 'tortured' characters.
    Jean-Luc Godard - INFp
    Agnes Varda - I'm guessing Gamma or Beta Introvert, Ethical. I've only seen Le Bonheur, La Pointe Courte, and bits of Vagabond.
    Francois Truffaut - ENFp or beta NF
    Luis Bunuel - ENTp
    Eric Rohmer - Maybe an introverted Gamma or Delta type
    Robert Bresson - ISFj (?)
    Stanley Kubrick - INTp
    John Cassavetes - ENTp or ENTj
    Orson Welles - ENTj
    Martin Scorsese - Beta NF
    David Fincher - ISTj (?)
    Akira Kurosawa - INFj (?)
    Sergio Leone - INTp (?)
    Andrei Tarkovsky - Beta NF
    Ingmar Bergman - INFp
    Wes Anderson - ISFp
    Sofia Coppola - ISFp (?)
    Until I come up with others ..... here´s my take on some of yours here :

    Jean-Luc Godard - Gamma (maybe SF)
    Luis Bunuel - Ne something
    Eric Rohmer - Gamma or Delta
    Stanley Kubrick - Ni something
    Orson Welles - ENFj
    Akira Kurosawa - INFj
    Andrei Tarkovsky - Beta NF

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    Quote Originally Posted by AshSun View Post
    Until I come up with others ..... here´s my take on some of yours here :

    Jean-Luc Godard - Gamma (maybe SF)
    Hmm..Godard's obsession with politics, and social strife makes me thing he's more of an aristocratic type. He seems pretty "Us vs. Them".

    @3:40 to 4:45


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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    Hmm..Godard's obsession with politics and social strife makes me thing he's an aristocratic type.
    Alphaville is like a huge argument against technocracy. It touches upon topics that I´d consider "more Gamma". Emotions and subjective perceptions are outlawed and everything "human" is replaced with an artificial vocabulary that mechanicizes people. The motto of the place : "People should not ask why, but only say because". People considered to be acting illogically are executed and excluded. Attachment 3115 I actually haven´t watched other movies by him yet, but even by his pics I´d say he looks kind of Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    Hmm..Godard's obsession with politics, and social strife makes me thing he's more of an aristocratic type. He seems pretty "Us vs. Them".

    @3:40 to 4:45

    I see your point. But when it comes to polarized thinking (us-them), it may be ambiguous. This is from the Sacred Wiki : Division of people into "mine" and "not mine" is frequently attributed to aristocracy. In actuality, this division holds true for any types that values white ethics (Fi), including the democratic types (SEE, and in particular ESI). If we expand this concept, then "my" is any person with whom close relations have been formed, there is a familiar connection or sincere attachment. For the IEE an EII sincere attachment and belonging to a group become combined: "mine" and "not mine" for them are members of "their group" or "foreign group". --- Also .... since the differences between the socionics Aristocratic/Democratic trait and properties of the enneagram social instinct have never been clearly explained, it is inadvisable to rely on this dichotomy in typing.

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    Here goes something:

    Alpha
    Federico Fellini- ENTp
    Richard Linklater- ISFp?


    Beta
    David Lynch- INFp
    Darren Aronofsky- INFp
    Calvin Reeder-INFp
    Martin Scorcese- Beta NF, I'd be inclined to lean towards ENFj
    Alfred Hitchcock- ESTp
    Dziga Vertov- ISTj


    Gamma
    Paul Schrader-INTp

    Delta
    Oliver Stone-ENFp
    Akira Kurosawa- INFj (I saw Rashomon again after being away from it for awhile; it's so saccharine in parts )
    Miranda July- INFj
    Abbas Kiarostami-INFj
    Jacques Godbout
    Ozu





    If anybody has opinions on the types of Cronenberg, Wong Kar-Wai, or Park Chan Wook, I'm especially curious about hearing them.
    Last edited by Whoobie77; 06-16-2014 at 07:19 PM.

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    Nicholas Winding Refn - INTp
    Lars Von Trier - INTp

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    Chris Marker - IEI?

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    Paul Thomas Anderson - LSI so/sx
    Martin Scorsese - SLI-Si sp/so
    Quentin Tarantino - ILE sx/so
    Werner Herzog - LII-Ti sp/so 9w8
    Andrei Tarkovsky - LSI
    Woody Allen - LII sp/so
    Jean-Luc Godard - ESI-Se so/sp
    David Lynch - IEI so/sp 9w1
    Darren Aronofsky - IEI-Ni
    David Mamet - SLE-Se so/sp
    Mel Gibson - LSE-Te e6
    Steven Spielberg - ILE

    Ingmar Bergman - Si/Ne introvert (not IEI)
    Lars von Trier - Alpha irrational (SEI)?
    Akira Kurosawa - delta?
    Alfred Hitchcock - ?
    Stanley Kubrick - ? (so/sp)
    Roman Polanski - ?
    Last edited by silke; 06-25-2014 at 04:31 AM.

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    ALFONSO CUARON - Se-LSI

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    Agnes Varda - IEI-Ni
    Chris Marker - LSI-Ti
    Jean-Luc Godard - ESI-Se
    Abbas Kiarostami - EII

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    Christopher Nolan- Gamma NT (possibly INTp)- Don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet.

    I think Paul Thomas Anderson is either Beta or Gamma. (ESI or LSI)
    Last edited by Contra; 06-07-2014 at 02:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    Nicholas Winding Refn - INTp
    Lars Von Trier - INTp
    I feel like Refn is XEI considering he focuses on aesthetic so much. He gets inspired from songs. He tried making Drive sort of the visual derivative of a Kraftwerk song. I lean IEI for him because he focuses on powerful characters so much. Refn mentioned how the main character in Drive is a 'Hero' in a certain sense. It reminds me of my IEI friend who sort of had this focus on the heroic (maybe that's an Ti/Fe valuing thing).. Just my opinion though. he could very well still be an ILI. He does seem to focus on Ni/Se (or at least Se).

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Martin Scorsese - SLI-Si sp/so
    Werner Herzog - LII-Ti sp/so 9w8
    Quentin Tarantino - ILE sx/so
    Lars von Trier - Alpha irrational (SEI)?
    lolwut

    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    Alfred Hitchcock - ?
    Stanley Kubrick - ? (so/sp)
    Hitchcock is SLE I think, Kubrick is ILI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    A few guesses..alot of these are probably pretty off.

    Quentin Tarantino - ENTj
    Luis Bunuel - ENTp
    Eric Rohmer - Maybe an introverted Gamma or Delta type
    Stanley Kubrick - INTp
    Martin Scorsese - Beta NF
    David Fincher - ISTj (?)
    Akira Kurosawa - INFj (?
    Andrei Tarkovsky - Beta NF
    Yasujiro Ozu - INFj (?)
    I'd actually say these are all in the ballpark. Good job. Bresson could be Delta and Fincher could be another Beta.

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    Stephen Spielberg is ENTp-Ti.
    Maybe ISTj for Chrisopher Nolan?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Martrix View Post
    Maybe ISTj for Chrisopher Nolan?
    ENFj i think. still beta.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    ENFj i think. still beta.
    Oh, yeah. Definitely beta.

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    i can't remember if i've posted in this thread before

    Lars Von Trier Ti-INTj Alpha
    Woody Allen Ne-INTj Alpha
    Zack Snyder Ne-INTj Alpha
    Charlie Kaufman Ti-ENTp Alpha
    Guillermo Del Toro Ne-ENTp Alpha
    Spike Jonze ISFp (?) Alpha
    Wes Anderson ISFp (?) Alpha
    Seth MacFarlane Fe-ESFj Alpha
    Steven Spielberg Extrovert Alpha
    Judd Apatow ? Alpha
    Darren Aronofsky Ni-INFp Beta
    Sam Mendes Ni-INFp Beta
    David Lynch Fe-INFp Beta
    Tim Burton Fe-INFp Beta
    Martin Scorsese Ni-ENFj Beta
    Christopher Nolan Ni-ENFj Beta
    David Fincher Se-ESTp Beta
    Alfonso Cuaron Se-ISTj Beta
    John Hughes ? Beta


    ummm. i can't think of any delta/gamma film-makers. weird.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Radio View Post
    ummm. i can't think of any delta/gamma film-makers. weird.
    Guy Ritchie

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    ..Eric Rohmer, Kurosawa, Theo Angelopoulos, Abbas Kiarostami, Yasujiro Ozu. All EII's strangely enough. Gamma should have a couple ESI's and NT's too, off the top of my head.

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    Wong Kar Wai - INFp
    Last edited by Nymeria; 07-12-2015 at 09:48 AM.

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    Roy Andersson (Swedish filmmaker/director): IEE? (ENFp)

    Apichatpong Weerasethakul (Thai filmmaker/director): IEE? (ENFp)

    Steven Soderbergh (American director): LIE (ENTj) or LSE?


    Lars von Trier: Beta NF (IEI or EIE)

    David Lynch: Beta NF (IEI or EIE?)

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    Martin Scorsese - IEI-Ni
    Steven Spielberg - EII-Ne
    Quentin Tarantino - IEE-Fi
    Alfred Hitchcock - ILI-Ni
    Stanley Kubrick - ILI-Ni
    Francis Ford Coppola - ILE-Ne
    Ridley Scott - LIE-Ni
    Woody Allen - LII-Ne
    James Cameron - LIE-Ni
    Clint Eastwood - SLI-Si
    David Lynch - LII-Ne
    Christopher Nolan - ILI-Ni
    Paul Thomas Anderson - ILE-Ti
    Akira Kurosawa - ILI-Te
    Peter Jackson - ILE-Ti
    Tim Burton - ILE-Ne
    Wes Anderson - SEI-Si
    Charlie Chaplin - EII-Ne
    George Lucas - LII-Ne
    Sofia Coppola - SEI-Si
    Terry Gilliam - ILE-Ne
    Richard Linklater - IEE-Ne
    Sergio Leone - ILI-Ni
    Werner Herzog - IEI-Ni

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