Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: Politics and Socionics

  1. #1
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,008
    Mentioned
    152 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default Politics and Socionics

    Well I've done a lot of thinking about the political side of socionics. I've came to the conclusion that certain functions are attributed to certain political beliefs. I believe that -Ti/+Te is the function of individualism, as it has to do with breaking things down and understanding the parts as individual properties. On the other hand +Ti/-Te would be the function of collectivism, as it has to do with implication and grouping things into a holistic manner. This means that -Ti/+Te is related to economics. I believe that +Ne/-Ni(-Se/+Si) is related to relativism, or unprovable truths. -Ne/+Ni(+Se/-Si) is related to absolution or provable truths. This would create a model that looks similar to this.

    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  2. #2
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  3. #3
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    Well I've done a lot of thinking about the political side of socionics. I've came to the conclusion that certain functions are attributed to certain political beliefs. I believe that -Ti/+Te is the function of individualism, as it has to do with breaking things down and understanding the parts as individual properties. On the other hand +Ti/-Te would be the function of collectivism, as it has to do with implication and grouping things into a holistic manner. This means that -Ti/+Te is related to economics. I believe that +Ne/-Ni(-Se/+Si) is related to relativism, or unprovable truths. -Ne/+Ni(+Se/-Si) is related to absolution or provable truths. This would create a model that looks similar to this.

    I don't agree. Delta quadra values are about "live and let live", so Delta matches libertarianism. Beta values goes opposite in authoritarian: enforces collectivity and. Gamma values in right conservative (self-responsibility and punitiveness towards offenders) and Alpha goes left-liberal: collectivism, but not strongly enforced.

    Is it that you yourself are INTj that you like to fashion Alpha up there in the Nolan diagram?
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  4. #4
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    No.
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  5. #5
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,008
    Mentioned
    152 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    I don't agree. Delta quadra values are about "live and let live", so Delta matches libertarianism. Beta values goes opposite in authoritarian: enforces collectivity and. Gamma values in right conservative (self-responsibility and punitiveness towards offenders) and Alpha goes left-liberal: collectivism, but not strongly enforced.

    Is it that you yourself are INTj that you like to fashion Alpha up there in the Nolan diagram?
    When I say republican I mean original conservative values, free market and such.
    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  6. #6
    Creepy-Diana

    Default

    .

  7. #7
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    It doesn't do much to tell hitta he's wrong, which is why I included those threads demonstrating that he's wrong. I don't think anyone on this forum is authoritarian, and most of the deltas seem to be liberal democrats, not republicans, and so on. . .
    You're quite right of course
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    8,578
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    zzzz

  9. #9
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    When I say republican I mean original conservative values, free market and such.
    Yes, we know all about republicans: a selfish kind of free-market capitalism and punishment in some form for all those that do not fit in or comply.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  10. #10
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,008
    Mentioned
    152 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Of course noone is going to test as authoritarian. Authoritarian is basically about following the balance of powers. Anything could be considered authoritarian, for there to be a fascist following a fascist ideology has to exist. Many of the fascist ideologies had their roots in socialism.
    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  11. #11
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,008
    Mentioned
    152 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Yes, we know all about republicans: a selfish kind of free-market capitalism and punishment in some form for all those that do not fit in or comply.
    Deltas usually believe strongly in the free market, but they believe that there are moral absolutes. They don't look at personal issues like Betas and Alphas. Yes there are probably a ton of libertarian Deltas, actually the majority of them probably are live and let live. Thats not the point of my graph. Most republicans are probably actually Gamma because of their authoritative values. I'm just looking at the mind set with a relative standard to politics. Deltas believe in moral standards, so they will live themselves by conservative philosophies. It doesn't indicate in anyway that they are conservative with their overall politics. This just indicates their mindset.
    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  12. #12
    xyz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,709
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    No.
    Exactly.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

  13. #13
    Creepy-Cyclops

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Exactly.
    I concur

  14. #14
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,008
    Mentioned
    152 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    truth is i could know more about every person here by just asking a few questions than the person i am asking the questions to
    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  15. #15
    The Troll Slayer Hitta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    In your mom's uterus
    Posts
    4,008
    Mentioned
    152 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    this thread has nothing to do with political orientation, it has to do with political mindset
    Model X Will Save Us!

    *randomwarelinkremoved

    jessica129:scrotums r hot

    :" hitting cap makes me envision cervix smashing"

  16. #16
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    Deltas usually believe strongly in the free market, but they believe that there are moral absolutes. They don't look at personal issues like Betas and Alphas. Yes there are probably a ton of libertarian Deltas, actually the majority of them probably are live and let live. Thats not the point of my graph. Most republicans are probably actually Gamma because of their authoritative values. I'm just looking at the mind set with a relative standard to politics. Deltas believe in moral standards, so they will live themselves by conservative philosophies. It doesn't indicate in anyway that they are conservative with their overall politics. This just indicates their mindset.
    No no no no. Just plain no.

    I think whatever relationship between politics and type there is (and I think there probably is at least some tendency) is probably more along the lines of what consenting adult said.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  17. #17
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    North Korea
    TIM
    IEE
    Posts
    8,819
    Mentioned
    24 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I must say more. Deltas don't believe in "moral standards". It's more about ethical choices, which are very case-by-case specific. It isn't what you think it is. "Moral standards" sounds more like a combination Se and Fe to me. It sounds like following or at least respecting authority anyway, which is more Se and not a Delta trait.

    I think by and large Deltas are probably more liberal than the average.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  18. #18
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    Deltas usually believe strongly in the free market, but they believe that there are moral absolutes. They don't look at personal issues like Betas and Alphas. Yes there are probably a ton of libertarian Deltas, actually the majority of them probably are live and let live. Thats not the point of my graph. Most republicans are probably actually Gamma because of their authoritative values. I'm just looking at the mind set with a relative standard to politics. Deltas believe in moral standards, so they will live themselves by conservative philosophies. It doesn't indicate in anyway that they are conservative with their overall politics. This just indicates their mindset.
    Just to make sure: I wasn't talking about delta types, but delta values.

    Now when it comes to Deltas and their 'conservativeness', I don't think it's about politics at all. A stereotypical characteristic of the Delta person, from the perspective of the Delta person, is that they are okay with things as they are and feel there is no added value in progress, or having more of the same. It is not conservatism in the regular sense, i.e. resistance to change and keeping the status quo for self-serving purposes. So contrary to what you say, Deltas do look at personal issues. In fact, it's the only goddamn thing they care about!

    Deltas realize, more than other types perhaps, that it's the simple things in life that provide quality. It's not that they are conservative in the political sense, they are inclined to think that change actually makes things worse, not better. Deltas would be the perfect hunter-gatherers, I think. Just give me a hammoc and I'll be fine
    Last edited by consentingadult; 02-19-2008 at 06:49 PM.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  19. #19
    Jesus is the cruel sausage consentingadult's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    2,782
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I must say more. Deltas don't believe in "moral standards". It's more about ethical choices, which are very case-by-case specific. It isn't what you think it is. "Moral standards" sounds more like a combination Se and Fe to me. It sounds like following or at least respecting authority anyway, which is more Se and not a Delta trait.

    I think by and large Deltas are probably more liberal than the average.
    Exactly! Moral standards are for people who need a set of -rather arbitrary- instructions to rationalize the imposition of their own interests on other people. At an emotional level (not the intellectual level), deltas are more inclined to reject the validity of such morals and dismiss it out of hand as mere moralism (I stress: on a more emotional, subconscious level!). Of course, this does not mean that Deltas are immoral, it's only that they apply ethical evaluation on a case-by-case basis, thus are flexible in their ethical standards.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

  20. #20
    Logos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    5,406
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    truth is i could know more about every person here by just asking a few questions than the person i am asking the questions to
    How could you know anything, hitta? Relativity, my ass, you are speaking in contradiction.

    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    this thread has nothing to do with political orientation, it has to do with political mindset
    What is the distinction that you are trying to make here?
    "Alpha Quadra subforum. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious." ~Obi-Wan Kenobi
    Johari Box

  21. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    TIM
    TiNe
    Posts
    7,967
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Political orientation defines one's political mindset.

    Hitta, I think you should take a spell to be all those things you think you hate about us. Just for a day or so.... After all, you can't know whether you're really being of assistance to us unless your put yoursefl in our shoes, can you?

  22. #22

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Florida
    TIM
    ILE 8w9
    Posts
    3,249
    Mentioned
    8 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    From what I can see, there is no correlation between type and politics. You can go out and observe, and I would be willing to bet you that you will not find a correlation.
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
    --Theodore Roosevelt

    "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover."
    -- Mark Twain

    "Man who stand on hill with mouth open will wait long time for roast duck to drop in."
    -- Confucius

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •