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Thread: EIEs/ENFjs with fragile egos and need to dominate

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    Default EIEs/ENFjs with fragile egos and need to dominate

    This is the typical example of a a little rabbit trying to be a lion I think. ENFJs feel lik dirt and want to make others feel the same.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    Himler is a prime example of this.
    Well I am back. How's everyone? Don't have as much time now, but glad to see some of the old gang are still here.

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    It's not just ENFjs, it's the whole Beta quadra. Betas have the least potential for individuation and are most dependent on other people for survival, both physical and psychological. They are the babies and toddlers of the Socion, even more than Alphas, because Betas with their valued Se do not allow people to choose their own path, and Alphas are more likely to allow that.

    As any other information element, the purpose of Fe is strictly selfish. However, I don't think there isn't an information element that tries to shift responsibility to other people as much as Fe does.

    I have spoken again.
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Woo hoo, another shit thread about "ENFJs", "Fe" and "Betas" and comparing it to "Hitler". EIEs need to dominate? WTF? Fragile egos are much more of a personal thing than a type thing, too. It sounds as if some "ENFJ" came and bruised YOUR fragile ego, and that's why you made this fucking thread in the first place!

    By the way, consentingadult, I can't tell if your post and signature is a joke or not. If that shit's for real, all I can do is laugh because of the sheer amount of untrue bullshit it contains.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    By the way, consentingadult, I can't tell if your post and signature is a joke or not. If that shit's for real, all I can do is laugh because of the sheer amount of untrue bullshit it contains.
    It's a charicature: it only applies to people who behave pathological
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    I have to say, I've never looked at ENFJ's that way.

    Most of the time my experiences with them were really great.

    But maybe it's because I haven't had really close contact with them.

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    ENFjs when unhealthy have a bit of self-destructive and self-hatred which can lead to them lashing out at others.

    But this is only when they are pathologically fixated.

    Just like all the other types are annoying and delusional when Unhealthy.

    I don't see the logic as to why the EIE has to be singled out when 15 other types would have a similar issue when unhealthy.
    ENFp (IEE, intuitive Subtype)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Angel Alliterator View Post
    ENFjs when unhealthy have a bit of self-destructive and self-hatred which can lead to them lashing out at others.

    But this is only when they are pathologically fixated.

    Just like all the other types are annoying and delusional when Unhealthy.

    I don't see the logic as to why the EIE has to be singled out when 15 other types would have a similar issue when unhealthy.
    I guess the difference is that some unhealthy types would deal with it by focusing inward and attacking themselves, or their environment, etc, where as ENFJs look to others to fix their problems, by lashing out, manipulating, controling, etc.

    I've had bad experiences with several ENFJs, BUT of course ENFPs don't typically get along with them well. The emotionally secure ones seem fine though.
    Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)

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    Just because the ENFjs pathology is focused outward does not merit it to be singled out.

    Apparently then people have not had the displeasure to deal with an unhealthy ENTp or ENTj ect

    Most Extraverts usually bring about their pathology outward, ENFp do this as well.

    It only shows that said arguments against ENFjs (or any other type) is brought upon a personal experience and not 100% rationality.

    ENFps and ENFjs don't usually get along because they both want to be in charge of situations and have large egos and neither likes to step back. They would work better as acquaintances or casual friends then anything else.

    I also think that sometimes people mistype others (i.e. mistype a specific person with a specific behavior as such and such).

    As in....they see a bossy and controlling person and....AHA! They must be ENFj! When they could actually be another type.
    ENFp (IEE, intuitive Subtype)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I guess the difference is that some unhealthy types would deal with it by focusing inward and attacking themselves, or their environment, etc, where as ENFJs look to others to fix their problems, by lashing out, manipulating, controling, etc.
    That makes sense I think. I've found that an unhealthy ENFj will try to manipulate and control from an emotional perspective. It's quite childish when I've observed them doing that, and they seem to get annoyed when it doesn't have the desired affect, and in turn they can become quite ruthless towards said person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    I guess the difference is that some unhealthy types would deal with it by focusing inward and attacking themselves, or their environment, etc, where as ENFJs look to others to fix their problems, by lashing out, manipulating, controling, etc.

    I've had bad experiences with several ENFJs, BUT of course ENFPs don't typically get along with them well. The emotionally secure ones seem fine though.
    What you are describing, is related to (but not exactly the same as) locus of control. I think I'm going to retreat now and think about the relationship between Information Elements and Locus of Control. My first inclination is that LoC might be related to Fi and Fe as quadra values.
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Isn't it healthiest supposedly to have an internal locus of control? How healthy someone is psychologically isn't quadra related. Perhaps I'm missing something?

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    I think there is a tendency here to compare unhealthy ENFjs (and to some extent Betas in general) to healthy people of other types. Yes, when ENFjs are unhealthy, they have fragile egos and need to dominate. But when ENFps are unhealthy we can't make any decisions and we forget to show up anywhere we're supposed to be, continually letting people down. Every type has bad potential.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    It's a charicature: it only applies to people who behave pathological
    Ahh, good. That just didn't seem right because the rest of your posts are actually quite sane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom
    I think there is a tendency here to compare unhealthy ENFjs (and to some extent Betas in general) to healthy people of other types. Yes, when ENFjs are unhealthy, they have fragile egos and need to dominate. But when ENFps are unhealthy we can't make any decisions and we forget to show up anywhere we're supposed to be, continually letting people down. Every type has bad potential.
    Yes, it's the voice of reason!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Isn't it healthiest supposedly to have an internal locus of control? How healthy someone is psychologically isn't quadra related. Perhaps I'm missing something?
    No, people with internal locus of control also feel responsible for things that are outside of their control, which also causes stress, whereas people with external locus of control seem to have an easier time with letting it all go. The ideal situation is to be responsible for the things you are and can be responsible for, and to ignore all the rest. It's that same old 'balance' adagio again.
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Herzy View Post
    Ahh, good. That just didn't seem right because the rest of your posts are actually quite sane.
    And I like you for dropping the question instead of making an assumption about what I was thinking or trying to say. I wish there were more people like you
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    How healthy someone is psychologically isn't quadra related. Perhaps I'm missing something?
    Yes and no: quadras and type all by itself says nothing about psychological health, but I do believe that type is a predictor for pathology and personality disorders, in case a person goes to abnormal extreme behavior ('abnormal extreme' being pathological behavior and 'normal extreme' meaning extreme behavior under stress, behavior that disappears again when the stress factor is removed). There is ample evidence in mainstream psychology that personality disorders relate to specific kinds of temperaments.

    The same things apply to Quadra values: there's a healthy side to quadra values, but when taken to extremes, we will observe very specific differences in , what I would like to call, group pathology. But note: I hypothesize here, as far as I know, there is no empirical evidence when it comes to quadra values in this respect. But without the 'pathology', quadra values simply are about survival strategies, I think.
    The future of Socionics:
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    ^Hmm... fair enough I suppose. (:

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    this thread makes me sad.

    (I am expressing myself. Oh no. Obviously this means I'm manipulating you guys because I'm ENFj. If some of you people interpret this post as manipulation, please shoot yourselves*)

    *in the leg (hope you saw this in time)
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    this thread makes me sad.

    (I am expressing myself. Oh no. Obviously this means I'm manipulating you guys because I'm ENFj. If some of you people interpret this post as manipulation, please shoot yourselves*)

    *in the leg (hope you saw this in time)
    Okay, why does it makes you sad? We're listening!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Okay, why does it makes you sad? We're listening!
    It might have something to do with you being the most active poster in this thread. Or perhaps it is just the position of the stars over Western Zombia. I don't understand these Fe things well enough to know for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    It might have something to do with you being the most active poster in this thread. Or perhaps it is just the position of the stars over Western Zombia. I don't understand these Fe things well enough to know for sure.
    Are you suggesting Kristiina is jealous?
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Are you suggesting Kristiina is jealous?
    I'm suggesting you sometimes act like a jerk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    I'm suggesting you sometimes act like a jerk.
    Oh, I'm perfectly willing to admit that I am or that such is the perception! Question always remains if this says something about me, about the perceiver, or both of us.
    Last edited by consentingadult; 02-19-2008 at 09:05 PM. Reason: typo error
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    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Okay, why does it makes you sad? We're listening!
    people should not have to explain time and time again that ENFjs are not all insane maniacs. I am grateful that people spend the time to explain it to ignorants, but I am sad that such explanations are still necessary after we've had the forum for YEARS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Oh, I'm perfectly willing to admit that I am or that such is the perception! Question always remains if this says something about me, about the perceiver, or both of us.
    I don't see any remaining questions. I must focus on different functions than you do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    people should not have to explain time and time again that ENFjs are not all insane maniacs. I am grateful that people spend the time to explain it to ignorants, but I am sad that such explanations are still necessary after we've had the forum for YEARS.
    By definition, forums are places where people act out their neurotic behaviors, or in some cases, their psychotic ones. I've seen it again and again since the days of bulletin boards, before the Internet took off. Such things will never change, I'm afraid. Don't take it all too hard, just try to shrug it off and think yo yourself: "does this really have to affect me?" Life become so much easier if you can.
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    I don't see any remaining questions. I must focus on different functions than you do.
    We all have a role to play, isn't this what Socionics teaches us?
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    Why has this thread been taken more seriously than Dio's threads about Nazi ESFjs and evil ISFps?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Why has this thread been taken more seriously than Dio's threads about Nazi ESFjs and evil ISFps?
    Because consentingINFpadult gets on my nerves, that's why Nothing business just personal. He is like the missing identical brother of B&D.

    (he could still be consentingENFpadult but then B&D is ENFp too)

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    By definition, forums are places where people act out their neurotic behaviors, or in some cases, their psychotic ones. I've seen it again and again since the days of bulletin boards, before the Internet took off. Such things will never change, I'm afraid. Don't take it all too hard, just try to shrug it off and think yo yourself: "does this really have to affect me?" Life become so much easier if you can.
    yea, but do you have to do that?
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Cool ILI hubbys are better than LSIs any time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CA's sig
    Within the framework of Socioncs, Delta Quadra Values represent the highest stage of ethical development and mature psychological individuation, which other quadras aren't capable of comprehending, simply because they have never been there. It does not mean, however, that all Deltas are individuated or matured, only that they have a potential to do so, and it does not mean that there's no survival value in the values of other quadras; you simply make the best of your karma.
    Wait! When did this show up?!?!?

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    I think we have a lot to learn from Dio if we put his observations into context. Each of us has a shadow, and Dio is more keen to this side of ourselves than most people. Dio focuses on the ways that a type can twist themselves into destroying their own content, the way a person can interface their foreground ego with their background id, for example.

    Let us look at Dio's observations as a warning against our darkest potentials.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    gets on my nerves
    Take it as a sign that you are not judging effectively
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    And for those of us who are EIE *and* 3s well we are demonized even more by both System Groups.

    It's a good thing we are appreciated IRL.
    ENFp (IEE, intuitive Subtype)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    Let us look at Dio's observations as a warning against our darkest potentials.
    Perhaps "darkest" is not the best word. Letters 2,3,4 can be replaced.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Why has this thread been taken more seriously than Dio's threads about Nazi ESFjs and evil ISFps?
    Because Alphas don't take things seriously; you should know this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush View Post
    Because Alphas don't take things seriously; you should know this.
    i think it's still offensive because even when he's talking about nazi ESFjs, he's rarely really talking about ESFjs, but some other type. so it's just even more irritating. as well as prescribing the offensive actions of people to one type. or attributing everything evil in the world to one function. it's something like, well, hitler.

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    idk, I just tend to ignore obviously ridiculous stuff like that. It's only bad if people take it seriously.

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    Quote Originally Posted by consentingadult View Post
    Take it as a sign that you are not judging effectively
    You seriously need to drop that smiley. It alone causes half of the irritation.

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