ENFp or ENFj?

[bradyalmighty]

Hey, I'm new here, and I'm somewhere between these types. I'm 18 years old, male.

-My two best friends are INFP (on Myers Briggs). I also became fast friends with an ISFP (in elementary school), and I got along very well with an ENFP girl and I usually like ESTP/ISTP guys as long as they're easy to get along with.
-I would be a good politician, because I'm always smiling and waving at my classmates in school.
-This is how I learn:
-I like to get the general concept first. For example, in math, I want to
find out how an equation is derived, and then go into the computation.
-I like to start general, but I like to go very specific. When I'm doing problems, I want to be able to know exactly what I'm doing, and repeat the process until it I don't have to think about it. But until I reach that point, I keep questioning myself: Do I understand the logic behind the problem? How does that term in the equation come up, and what is it's significance?
-I notice when people are left out, and make sure that they feel they're part of the group.
-This is what happened recently: I got to know a really nice girl (probably ENFP). I talked to her about everything, except my most personal stuff (like my problems I was going thru with family, my frustration at poor grades). Several months have passed, and we seem to have drifted apart...and now I'm hating myself for closing myself off like that...
-This is when I'm happiest:
-When other people respect me.
-Relationships when they are working out, improving, just starting, everything.
-When relationships are not working out, I feel depressed and incompetent.
-When people don't like me, scorn me... I feel absolutely horrible.
This argument popped up with my family...
-I said I wanted to go to Cheesecake factory, but not the one next to our house, but one farther away in another city. I said I wanted to go there b/c I had good memories of my aunt a couple years back, but my parents said that that was a total waste of time and impractical. I got angry, and questioned why they couldn't even sacrifice a tiny bit of time for me...and yeah...
-I've had lots of spiritual moments, when I listen to inspirational music, I feel a strange sense of inner peace and unconditional love.
-I feel jealous when people who I'm close with don't spend as much time w with me compared to other people...like new friends that they hang out with more than me...unfortunately...I feel upset when people don't react positively to me.
-I tend to tell my parents of events last-minute because I'm not too excited at the prospect of being rejected...I don't like criticism.
-I find it really easy to laugh at myself.
-My most noticeable traits are generosity and agreeableness. I'll always lend someone money, help them out with something, and make sure everyone's having a good time, being nice to each other.
-My greatest weakness is that I forget to remember that the people who love me really do love me...and if I feel I'm being treated unfairly, I get excessively angry even though they mean the best. =(. I also get depressed when people ignore me / forget overlook me, and when I'm going through tough times, I just look to the future and I find it hard to be resilient and get back up right there and then.

[consentingadult]

whatever your type, be prepared for people here telling you critically that you are describing yourself from an MBTI-perpective and that Socionics is something completely different. Don't take it personally

That being said, I think that many of the traits described above are not Socionic type related. They are, I think, examples of behavior that rise under stress, when you are not being yourself. There seems to be an excessive focus on people-pleasing, on other-directedness, on wanting to be liked and doing everything to accomplish that. These behaviors can, imho, occur in both types, and in other extraverted types as well.

Could you describe to us more positive situations, in which you feel complete comfortable. What happens then.

Example: suppose you were to organize the perfect get-together and everyone would behave in a way that you would appreciate. What would such a situation look like? Just close your eyes and fantasize and let us know.

[lefty]

i would buy the david keirsey test or pay for it online and uhhh ... yeah i've found the results to be pretty reliable just be honest when you answer questions...please understand me II by david keirsey.

[Ezra]

Huge differences between IEE and EIE. Firstly, quadra values. IEEs value the opposite of EIEs; Ne/Si and Te/Fi; whereas EIEs value Ni/Se and Ti/Fe. Check out wikisocion.org for more information on quadras. EIEs have Fe and Ni ego block, whereas IEEs have Ne and Fi ego block; in short, both EIEs and IEEs are good at Fe, Fi, Ne and Ni, but while EIEs value Fe and Ni, and devalue Ne and Fi, IEEs value Ne and Fi, and devale Fe and Ni.

[consentingadult]

Huge differences between IEE and EIE. Firstly, quadra values. IEEs value the opposite of EIEs; Ne/Si and Te/Fi; whereas EIEs value Ni/Se and Ti/Fe. Check out wikisocion.org for more information on quadras. EIEs have Fe and Ni ego block, whereas IEEs have Ne and Fi ego block; in short, both EIEs and IEEs are good at Fe, Fi, Ne and Ni, but while EIEs value Fe and Ni, and devalue Ne and Fi, IEEs value Ne and Fi, and devale Fe and Ni.

lol, this way, you're scaring him off....

[xyz]

lol, this way, you're scaring him off....

Seriously, stop with the gobbledi****

[consentingadult]

Seriously, stop with the gobbledi****

What for? What does gobbledi**** mean anyway?

[Slacker]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobbledy****

Gobbledy**** or gobblede**** (sometimes shortened to gobbledegoo) is an English term used to describe nonsensical language, sound that resembles language but has no meaning, or unintelligible encrypted text. It is also used to refer to official, professional or pretentious language. In this sense, gobbledy**** is a hurdle of communication at best, a means of imposing power at worst.

To the OP - you might want to put this in the What's My Type or whatever it's called area. You'll get more info.

[xyz]

What for? What does gobbledi**** mean anyway?

That was directed at Ezra, I was agreeing with you consenting adult

[consentingadult]

That was directed at Ezra, I was agreeing with you consenting adult

lol, I was getting all self-conscious about this

[consentingadult]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobbledy****



To the OP - you might want to put this in the What's My Type or whatever it's called area. You'll get more info.

Thanks. I googled it, but got a lot of different results that didn't make sense to me and never expected that it could be on Wikipedia

I read it was inspired by the name of a person of Dutch descent, Gobbel De ****. We actually have laws in the Netherlands that you can't register names that might xause problems to people later in life, and I think this name qualifies as such, because even in Dutch it sounds utterly silly, and I've never heard of both the first and last name. If this was a real person's name, I'm afraid someone (his parents) pulled a joke on him

[Ezra]

That was directed at Ezra, I was agreeing with you consenting adult

You're here for the party; of course it's gobbledy**** to your mind.

[Slacker]

I read it was inspired by the name of a person of Dutch descent, Gobbel De ****.

LOL. That sounds like an urban legend to me.

[bradyalmighty]

Example: suppose you were to organize the perfect get-together and everyone would behave in a way that you would appreciate. What would such a situation look like? Just close your eyes and fantasize and let us know.

I'd be happiest when everyone else is comfortable and everyone's talking to everyone else about things that we can all relate to. Kind of like a conversation around a campfire when everyone's contributing and having a really good time; deeper conversations are always cool too. Bad would be people doing different things, not getting along, people feeling left out.

[Mediator Kam]

I'd be happiest when everyone else is comfortable and everyone's talking to everyone else about things that we can all relate to. Kind of like a conversation around a campfire when everyone's contributing and having a really good time; deeper conversations are always cool too. Bad would be people doing different things, not getting along, people feeling left out.

If you enjoy comfortable surroundings or like it when others have comfort, that suggests a valued . This is big because this is the difference between PoLR and seeking (ENFj has Si Point of Least Resistance(Bad) and ENFp enjoys Si).

[xyz]

You're here for the party; of course it's gobbledy**** to your mind.

No, It's not gobbledy**** to me, I just had to grab a piece of paper to substitute Ne and Fe and PoRL and all those other terms. I'm sure a new person would've seen your garbage and just leave.

Nice try though.

[implied]

No, It's not gobbledy**** to me, I just had to grab a piece of paper to substitute Ne and Fe and PoRL and all those other terms. I'm sure a new person would've seen your garbage and just leave.

Nice try though.

i agree with you lokivg. most people don't want to be barraged with a bunch of shorthand abstract functions on their first post. especially if it seems like they're thinking in MBTI terms. it has jack shit to do with "being here for the party."

[Exodus]

If you enjoy comfortable surroundings or like it when others have comfort, that suggests a valued . This is big because this is the difference between PoLR and seeking (ENFj has Si Point of Least Resistance(Bad) and ENFp enjoys Si).

Yeah, I would rule out Gamma or Beta. ENFp makes sense, but I need more information.

[consentingadult]

Example: suppose you were to organize the perfect get-together and everyone would behave in a way that you would appreciate. What would such a situation look like? Just close your eyes and fantasize and let us know.

I'd be happiest when everyone else is comfortable and everyone's talking to everyone else about things that we can all relate to. Kind of like a conversation around a campfire when everyone's contributing and having a really good time; deeper conversations are always cool too. Bad would be people doing different things, not getting along, people feeling left out.

Like others have said, this means you hold on Introverted Sensing (Si or ) as as value and it rules out Socionics ENFj, and that ENFp is way more likely. However, what you have written, does not rule out Socionics ENTp, because they also value Si.

To know whether you are ENFp or ENTp, we need to know which of the two following information elements you value more: (Introverted Feeling/Ethics, Fi) or (Extroverted Feeling/Ethics, Fe). Now note that in Socionics, such an information element/function does not have to be actively used (in the sense of strong, natural usage), it only means you highly value the function, e.g. in other people.

To be able for us to differentiate whether you value Fi or Fe, tell us a little bit more about that campfire of yours, and be a little more specific: describe people's individual behavior, describe their styles of emotional expression, the way they laugh etc., the other things they are doing, such as how they eat and drink etc. This could give us a better idea.

To the other readers in this thread: I already have a strong sense of his type, and probably so do you. But please, let bradyalmighty himself say it and reach conclusions and not forcing a type on him. My guess is he doesn't know much about Socionics theory in general yet, and quadra values in particular, which is a good thing, because he will be less biased in his self-concept, which makes it less likely he will give a politically correct answer.

[astralsilky]

Example: suppose you were to organize the perfect get-together and everyone would behave in a way that you would appreciate. What would such a situation look like? Just close your eyes and fantasize and let us know.

I'd be happiest when everyone else is comfortable and everyone's talking to everyone else about things that we can all relate to. Kind of like a conversation around a campfire when everyone's contributing and having a really good time; deeper conversations are always cool too. Bad would be people doing different things, not getting along, people feeling left out.

2nd paragraph is a good example of what Fe values really are. The first paragraph is remarkably ENFj: it's cookbook Fe+Ni.

I would focus on some of the obvious things like this first before analyzing things like how his POLR might manifest, etc.

Welcome to the forum, bradyalmighty.

[Mediator Kam]

2nd paragraph is a good example of what Fe values really are. The first paragraph is remarkably ENFj: it's cookbook Fe+Ni.

I would focus on some of the obvious things like this first before analyzing things like how his POLR might manifest, etc.

I disagree, but we need to get more info nevertheless.

[Ezra]

No, It's not gobbledy**** to me, I just had to grab a piece of paper to substitute Ne and Fe and PoRL and all those other terms. I'm sure a new person would've seen your garbage and just leave.

Nice try though.

Then you've merely proven my point. It's like Expat said to me at the start of my posting here; if I can't be bothered to persevere with it, then I may as well not study socionics.

[consentingadult]

Then you've merely proven my point. It's like Expat said to me at the start of my posting here; if I can't be bothered to persevere with it, then I may as well not study socionics.

For the puposes of learning Socionics, the gobbledy**** is indeed the right thing. However, teaching it to someone else who still seems to be at the bottom of the ladder, is a different thing. You can teach a 6 year old Relativity, provided you build a foundation first (which probably takes many years before you actually get to the point)

[implied]

For the puposes of learning Socionics, the gobbledy**** is indeed the right thing. However, teaching it to someone else who still seems to be at the bottom of the ladder, is a different thing. You can teach a 6 year old Relativity, provided you build a foundation first (which probably takes many years before you actually get to the point)

bam. (; you can't walk into a advanced level classroom with a novice foundation, in any subject really.

[Kristiina]

Example: suppose you were to organize the perfect get-together and everyone would behave in a way that you would appreciate. What would such a situation look like? Just close your eyes and fantasize and let us know.

I'd be happiest when everyone else is comfortable and everyone's talking to everyone else about things that we can all relate to. Kind of like a conversation around a campfire when everyone's contributing and having a really good time; deeper conversations are always cool too. Bad would be people doing different things, not getting along, people feeling left out.

I didn't get a type-feeling with the first post, but this one is clearly ENFj>>>> ENFp. The theory says that ENFps (and other Fi types) are the ones who keep splitting up groups. When they can, they'll engage in some semi-private conversation with a member of the group. This excludes the rest of the people from that conversation. They like to talk with 1-3 people at a time and they rotate the people they talk with so no one gets ignored. ENFjs would like to see everyone in the same group talking with everyone at the same time.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

bam. (; you can't walk into a advanced level classroom with a novice foundation, in any subject really.

Totally. Although to make it even more confusing sometimes the simple approach is the best, esp when we analyse things too much. Simple or complex approach or both-trying to do it all gives brain ache!

[consentingadult]

I didn't get a type-feeling with the first post, but this one is clearly ENFj>>>> ENFp. The theory says that ENFps (and other Fi types) are the ones who keep splitting up groups. When they can, they'll engage in some semi-private conversation with a member of the group. This excludes the rest of the people from that conversation. They like to talk with 1-3 people at a time and they rotate the people they talk with so no one gets ignored. ENFjs would like to see everyone in the same group talking with everyone at the same time.

After giving it a second thought, I think I'm inclined to agree: probably delta-style behavior is live and let live, so if people want to take a little detour apart from the rest of the group for a while, that would be OK.

When I go on vacation with other people, I always make it a point to have at least one day all to myself and do my own thing. A lot of people simply refuse to understand this, and insist on doing everything together. That is, until I present them with the alternative: nothing at all

[xyz]

wtf, stop being an unreasonable dick and Consenting_Prick too or i'll shove a light pole into your millimeter asshole.

I'll stop when you start making sense up there ^

[consentingadult]

stop with your ............ mind tricks, .................................................. ...........

You know, I have never doubted your type from the day I started reading your posts, because you don't have a type. Only people with normal personalities or personality disorders can be typed. Attempts to type people with disorders such as Schizophrenia or Autism are invalid by definition. And you are an invalid!

But I'm glad for you that you have found the perfect spot to act out your paranoia. Keep it up!

[consentingadult]

(if i am crazy, go fuck yourself and never appear on this forum again, dick and if i am not, still go and fuck yourself).

You're so cute!

Now don't hold your breath waiting for me to change my behavior. Ever since I read Stop Walking on Eggshells, I indeed stopped walking on eggshells.

Now as for your disorder, I don't know exactly, but it could be shizophrenia or some other physical illness indeed, in which case you are untypable, since there will be holes in your Model A. It could be borderline personality disorder as well, in which case you are typable, but knowing your type won't help your life problems. Therapy will. But first go see a counselor to find out what exactly is wrong with you. Hanging around here will only make your problems worse.

[consentingadult]

actually i did one of the tests on disorders and i did score high on every single one of them lol. also, i do realize that you are trying to go for the kill as people generally are not forgiving or loving so i do filter what you say and your words don't "bite" at all if you want feedback lol.

All of them or just the personality disorders?

i will say good bye to you now.

To the other readers: you have just seen a successful example of how to set boundaries to a pathologically behaving person. Dee got my message all right and now knows it's better to stay away from me.

[xyz]

Thanks for the book link, consengintadult.