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Thread: INTj ???

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    Default INTj ???

    I've been trying to type my brother's girlfriend. I was pretty sure that she was INTj for awhile, but lately I've been thinking I got it wrong. I definitely don't get any Fi/Fe vibes from her. She's the sort of person who likes to defend the underdog though. And she was telling me that cruelty to animals really bothers her. She's going to go do a volunteer thing looking after penguins or something. She's really hard to read and get to know. You know how some people when you talk to them you feel like there is a wall there that doesn't let you get too close? She's not a cold person though. She's friendly to everyone and seems nonjudgemental. She's definitely an introvert - that's about the only thing I'm sure of. ... but when she's in a group situation she'll take it upon herself to make sure the conversation is flowing. But it seems to me to be something she feels she has to do rather than something she enjoys doing. She talks a mile a minute when she's nervous or to cover any awkward silences.

    As far as the relations btwn my brother and her go ... my brother's ISTp ... she seems to take a motherly sort of role - she definitely wears the pants. It's kind of weird when they're around other people they seem to sort of ignore each other - well, not so much ignore ... but it's just like they both insist on being seen as independent people - there's no possessiveness whatsoever.

    Anyway - I would be grateful for any insight/guesses/stabs in the dark at what type she might be. Questions welcome ...
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    Everything you've listed looks INTj to me. I'd like some comments by others on whether the benefactor tends to "wear the pants" in a benefactor/beneficiary relationship... it's something I've been guessing might be true, but I haven't seen it carried out in practice.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Brilliand View Post
    Everything you've listed looks INTj to me
    ... including the animals thing and the talking when she's nervous thing?
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    Nothing in that suggests INTj as a likely type.

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    @chopin

    I very much doubt she's INTj.

    Overall she sounds like some Delta, and I suspect the "introversion" you're seeing is not really socionics introversion, something you say suggests socionics extroversion. I'd guess ESTj from that description, but it's based on a bit of reading between the lines, so it's not a strong opinion.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Nothing in that suggests INTj as a likely type.
    Is there a type more prominent than the others as far as being the most likely to you?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    @chopin

    I very much doubt she's INTj.

    Overall she sounds like some Delta, and I suspect the "introversion" you're seeing is not really socionics introversion, something you say suggests socionics extroversion. I'd guess ESTj from that description, but it's based on a bit of reading between the lines, so it's not a strong opinion.
    I don't know ... I don't get the supervisor vibe from her. She has this 'live and let live' sort of attitude - something which I haven't found ESTjs to have. When I said she wears the pants, I don't mean she's that controlling ... my brother's just so laid back that someone has to take charge.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    Is there a type more prominent than the others as far as being the most likely to you?
    I promise to promptly try to answer your question, if you would care to promulgate some more information about your supposedly non-promiscuous friend -- like, for example, if she is a good promoter, if she likes to go to proms, and if she has ever been standing on a lonely promontary, looking like a pioneer onto a promised land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I promise to promptly try to answer your question, if you would care to promulgate some more information about your supposedly non-promiscuous friend -- like, for example, if she is a good promoter, if she likes to go to proms, and if she has ever been standing on a lonely promontary, looking like a pioneer onto a promised land.
    You made me laugh!! That is a first.

    Do you want more information?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    Do you want more information?
    Do you want to know her correct type? If you really want our help to type her, you should provide us with as much information as possible. Describe her behaviour and attitudes as completely and as thoroughly as you can (without adding your own analysis -- at least not in the initial stage).

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    Do you think it's possible your brothers girlfriend is ISTp also?
    Last edited by Cyclops; 02-18-2008 at 11:28 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Do you think it's possible your brothers girlfriend is ISTp also?
    Yeah - could be. Do you think she sounds ISTp?
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    I don't know what else to say about her behaviour and stuff. She comes across as really relaxed and easygoing. But she sort of modifies her behaviour to suit diff people. For example my parents think she's incredibly mature - she does and says all the right things when she has to - treats everyone as equals no matter what age ... When she's relaxed she doesn't say too much - seems to enjoy just observing and that sort of thing ... um what else ... She says public speaking / interviews make her really nervous ... She was telling me the other day that she finds it hard to motivate herself - she did one year of uni and quit - but then she didn't like it ... so that may not say much. One of her interests is making jewelry - she's doing a course on it at the moment. She likes fooling around with graphic designing. Independence is important to her I think - she was saying that she doesn't like the feeling of family living in her pocket knowing all her business. But she's close to her family though. She has strong morals ... could just be her upbringing though ...
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    Yeah - could be. Do you think she sounds ISTp?
    Possibly.

    fwiw I thought she could have been ESTj or ISTp. They're pretty close being mirrors. I think with the lack of supervision involved that it makes me lean towards ISTp more

    EDIT: Is she cool ? If she's as cool she's probably the same type as me aha
    Last edited by Cyclops; 02-19-2008 at 04:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    Possibly.

    fwiw I thought she could have been ESTj or ISTp. They're pretty close being mirrors. I think with the lack of supervision involved that it makes me lean towards ISTp more

    EDIT: Is she cool ? If she's as cool she's probably the same type as me aha
    What do you know! Me and my overanalyzing ... she must be ISTp!
    (Phaedrus shakes his head and stomps away in disgust ... )
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    She comes across as really relaxed and easygoing. But she sort of modifies her behaviour to suit diff people.
    That rules out INTj for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    For example my parents think she's incredibly mature - she does and says all the right things when she has to - treats everyone as equals no matter what age ... When she's relaxed she doesn't say too much - seems to enjoy just observing and that sort of thing ...
    What you have described so far is most consistent with IP temperament.

    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    um what else ... She says public speaking / interviews make her really nervous ... She was telling me the other day that she finds it hard to motivate herself - she did one year of uni and quit - but then she didn't like it ... so that may not say much.
    It says quite a lot. IP temperament seems more and more likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    One of her interests is making jewelry - she's doing a course on it at the moment. She likes fooling around with graphic designing. Independence is important to her I think - she was saying that she doesn't like the feeling of family living in her pocket knowing all her business. But she's close to her family though. She has strong morals ... could just be her upbringing though ...
    I think we need to focus on other aspects of her person. She seems to have an IP temperament, and if that is correct it leaves us with four possible types. Unless further information goes against the IP hypothesis, I think it is a good starting point. No other types than the four IP ones should be considered right now, and no other type can come into consideration if we cannot show that the IP hypothesis must be wrong.

    Can you tell something more about her?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    What do you know! Me and my overanalyzing ... she must be ISTp!
    (Phaedrus shakes his head and stomps away in disgust ... )
    I don't like that you are jumping to conclusions so quickly. You have too little information to analyze, and yet you have already formed an opinion that she is probably ISTp. Bad science!

    If she is an ISTp she is a logical type of the same sort as Clint Eastwood, Agatha Christie, the Swedish writer Astrid Lindgren, etc. The ISTp type belongs to Keirsey's group of Artisans, and so does the ISFp. That is a convenient way to compare the IP types, because the INTp is a Rational, and the INFp is an Idealist.

    Do you think that she is a logical type or an ethical? Can you tell the difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I think we need to focus on other aspects of her person. She seems to have an IP temperament, and if that is correct it leaves us with four possible types. Unless further information goes against the IP hypothesis, I think it is a good starting point. No other types than the four IP ones should be considered right now, and no other type can come into consideration if we cannot show that the IP hypothesis must be wrong.

    Can you tell something more about her?
    Yeah - I agree that an IP type seems most likely. It would be easier if you just asked specfic questions. I can't think of much else to say about her. ... Looks-wise? Her most noticeable feature is her nose. It's pretty prominent (no pun intended ) - sort of Roman nose I guess you'd call it. Um ... pointy sort-of chin, large, almond-shaped eyes. Is this helping? She's sort of round-shouldered - walks like she has the weight of the world on her shoulders. Dresses casually, conservatively - has good taste. She's into health, organic stuff ... but not obsessive about it. She talks quite eloquently and has a sophisticated way of talking (tone of voice, not vocabulary)
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I don't like that you are jumping to conclusions so quickly. You have too little information to analyze, and yet you have already formed an opinion that she is probably ISTp. Bad science!
    I was joking for goodness sake
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    Yeah - I agree that an IP type seems most likely. It would be easier if you just asked specfic questions. I can't think of much else to say about her. ... Looks-wise? Her most noticeable feature is her nose. It's pretty prominent (no pun intended ) - sort of Roman nose I guess you'd call it. Um ... pointy sort-of chin, large, almond-shaped eyes. Is this helping? She's sort of round-shouldered - walks like she has the weight of the world on her shoulders.
    Dresses casually, conservatively - has good taste. She's into health, organic stuff ... but not obsessive about it. She talks quite eloquently and has a sophisticated way of talking (tone of voice, not vocabulary)
    Such considerations would be interesting if we had a photo to compare with -- otherwise it it to easy to go wrong.

    What is she particularly good at? What are her main interests? Does she have weaknesses? Which are they? What are her values? What are her attitudes towards life? What does she identify with? Have you tested her?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    What is she particularly good at? What are her main interests? Does she have weaknesses? Which are they? What are her values? What are her attitudes towards life? What does she identify with? Have you tested her?
    She's good at crafts like making jewellery. That would be her main interest as well - also animals ... but I already said all that. Apparently her ultimate career goal would be to open up a trendy backpacker's resort in the boonies somewhere with an art gallery attached to it. Weaknesses? Who doesn't? Um - seems to have a bit of a roving eye. My other bro (ENFp) reckons she's after him ... but then he tends to think that about a lot of people so ... Her attitude twrds life - prob a bit pessimistic - I mean she has plenty of interests and dreams ... but doesn't really seem to think they'll ever happen. No I haven't tested her, but she said that she did a Myers-Briggs test ages ago and came out as 'one of the rarest ones' ... she thought INTJ or INTP but couldn't say for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    She's good at crafts like making jewellery. That would be her main interest as well - also animals ... but I already said all that. Apparently her ultimate career goal would be to open up a trendy backpacker's resort in the boonies somewhere with an art gallery attached to it. Weaknesses? Who doesn't? Um - seems to have a bit of a roving eye. My other bro (ENFp) reckons she's after him ... but then he tends to think that about a lot of people so ... Her attitude twrds life - prob a bit pessimistic - I mean she has plenty of interests and dreams ... but doesn't really seem to think they'll ever happen. No I haven't tested her, but she said that she did a Myers-Briggs test ages ago and came out as 'one of the rarest ones' ... she thought INTJ or INTP but couldn't say for sure.
    I'm not sure what to make of her interests, possibly consistent with many types.

    The roving eye thing ... it depends on what kind of "roving" eye thing it is ... I have seen a kind of "roving" eye phenomenon in several ISFps, but that phenomenon is different from another kind of roving eye thing that is indicative of intuition.

    That she has tested as INTJ/INTP is another argument for the hypothesis that she is a logical type, and her described behaviour is not inconsistent with INTp (but it is inconsistent with INTj). And since we have agreed to suppose that she is probably some IP type, the two most likely types so far seems to be ISTp and INTp. We can't rely on her test result too much, but if you can find other arguments for T and perhaps some strong arguments against F, maybe we are soon in a position to remove ISFp and INFp from the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I promise to promptly try to answer your question, if you would care to promulgate some more information about your supposedly non-promiscuous friend -- like, for example, if she is a good promoter, if she likes to go to proms, and if she has ever been standing on a lonely promontary, looking like a pioneer onto a promised land.
    Oh my god Phaedrus made a joke, and it's kind of funny! Yay!

    Edited to add: Oh, and the girl sounds ISTp to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    Oh my god Phaedrus made a joke, and it's kind of funny! Yay!

    Edited to add: Oh, and the girl sounds ISTp to me.
    actually he's made a few lately. Funny ones !

    I thought could be INTj or ISTp but as the thread wore on seems more ISTp. Lots of things match one of my ISTp friends.

    Not sure about why one would take the reins.. it does say in the literature that in an identical relation one will take the dual role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I'm not sure what to make of her interests, possibly consistent with many types.

    The roving eye thing ... it depends on what kind of "roving" eye thing it is ... I have seen a kind of "roving" eye phenomenon in several ISFps, but that phenomenon is different from another kind of roving eye thing that is indicative of intuition.

    That she has tested as INTJ/INTP is another argument for the hypothesis that she is a logical type, and her described behaviour is not inconsistent with INTp (but it is inconsistent with INTj). And since we have agreed to suppose that she is probably some IP type, the two most likely types so far seems to be ISTp and INTp. We can't rely on her test result too much, but if you can find other arguments for T and perhaps some strong arguments against F, maybe we are soon in a position to remove ISFp and INFp from the list.
    I'm pretty sure she's not ISFp. I know you won't be impressed with the reason ... but anyway - I just don't get a ISFp vibe from her. I find it pretty easy to spot my identicals. If she is ISFp, she's a seriously screwed-up one and/or she's putting on a hell of a show ... and I know I couldn't sustain a charade like that for long. Plus I think you can sort of tell from a person's eyes whether they're Fe or not - they have a warmth or something to them. I bet you're impressed by my scientific methods of analysing eh? Say you are - please! I've been thinking about the possibility of her being INTp ... can't really say because I only know 2 of them ... no offence meant - but do you think good social skills are consistent with being an INTp? Like taking it upon herself to ensure the conversation is flowing??

    Trying to think of more info ... she seems to like going out, social situations ... tho she's never life of the party - she's quite a clean person - likes fresh air - she's quite spontaneous - for instance she just decided to move cities so she quit her job and moved up - she didn't have a job or accomodation lined up .... She's pretty adaptable/accomodating - she'll go along with whatever's happening providing it's not against her morals. Likes trying new types of food - she generally orders the weirdest thing on the menu just to try it (if it's healthy). Oh - she was telling me that she can't stand fakeness, bitchiness - that she generally prefers the company of guys for that reason - likes 'normal people' as opposed to over-the-top ones
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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    I bet you're impressed by my scientific methods of analysing eh? Say you are - please!
    I can spot signs of F-ness even though it is not natural for me to express them myself, and my intellectual mind might come to the conclusion that perhaps a or maybe even a could be appropriate here as a way of trying to mirror your emotional expressions and loosen up a bit ... And I actually think that the fact that you can't see her as your identical has some scientific worth. It is not conclusive, but we don't seem to have any strong reason to believe that she could be an ISFp.

    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    I've been thinking about the possibility of her being INTp ... can't really say because I only know 2 of them ... no offence meant - but do you think good social skills are consistent with being an INTp? Like taking it upon herself to ensure the conversation is flowing??
    It would not be the most natural thing to do for an INTp, but I have occasionally tried it myself when the person I have been talking to has been more shy than I am. (I am not really shy anymore, though I certainly was as a child.) Though I have some difficulty imagining an INTp with great social skills. On the other hand, an ISTp would probably not do much better either.

    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    Trying to think of more info ... she seems to like going out, social situations ... tho she's never life of the party - she's quite a clean person - likes fresh air - she's quite spontaneous - for instance she just decided to move cities so she quit her job and moved up - she didn't have a job or accomodation lined up ....
    I am not very spontaneous myself, and INTps in general are not the most spontaneous of P types, but what you describe is not a conclusive argument for anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    She's pretty adaptable/accomodating - she'll go along with whatever's happening providing it's not against her morals. Likes trying new types of food - she generally orders the weirdest thing on the menu just to try it (if it's healthy).
    That particular aspect (interest in tasting new types of food) is actually mentioned in Stratiyevskaya's INTp type profile, and I am just like that myself. But I'm not sure that it indicates anything else than that is an argument against for example ISTj, a type we don't believe that she is anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    Oh - she was telling me that she can't stand fakeness, bitchiness - that she generally prefers the company of guys for that reason - likes 'normal people' as opposed to over-the-top ones
    Could you elaborate on that? What do you mean by 'normal people'? And what kind of creatures are the 'over-the-top' ones?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    You know how some people when you talk to them you feel like there is a wall there that doesn't let you get too close?
    Hahaha,

    something about that sentence sounds very familiar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    I can spot signs of F-ness even though it is not natural for me to express them myself, and my intellectual mind might come to the conclusion that perhaps a or maybe even a could be appropriate here as a way of trying to mirror your emotional expressions and loosen up a bit ...
    Woohoooooooo!!! One day? ... maybe???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    It would not be the most natural thing to do for an INTp, but I have occasionally tried it myself when the person I have been talking to has been more shy than I am.
    What would your reasons be if you were to do that? To make the other person more comfortable? To draw the other person out? To make yourself more comfortable? ...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Though I have some difficulty imagining an INTp with great social skills. On the other hand, an ISTp would probably not do much better either.
    Tho it'd be more important to an ISTp, don't you think - to fit in socially? Therefore they try harder?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Could you elaborate on that? What do you mean by 'normal people'? And what kind of creatures are the 'over-the-top' ones?
    Well, she used examples of 2 girls I know - the 'normal' one I'd describe as easygoing, kind, sincere, funny, bit quiet - actually prob ISFp / the 'crazy' one has a really bubbly, effusive sort-of personality - really emotional - laughing one minute, crying the next - probably slightly insincere - you know, like if she hasn't seen you for a while and she'll nearly knock you over with a massive hug and over-the-top compliments ... which leads me to the question ... what type do you think this girl would be?? (JOKE ALERT, JOKE ALERT!!
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Hahaha,

    something about that sentence sounds very familiar.
    You relate to that?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    You relate to that?
    Yes, ridiculously so.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    Yes, ridiculously so.
    You mean other people seem to have the wall up? ... or yourself
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    ~~rubicon~~ Rubicon's Avatar
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    Boy - there seem to be a lot of dogs wandering around on this page ... just wanted to add another one

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    Stop it, you're gonna get dizzy.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chopin View Post
    You mean other people seem to have the wall up? ... or yourself
    meself
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Winterpark View Post
    meself
    Do you feel flattered or annoyed when someone tries to get past the wall? ... cause I have a bit of a wall up too, but only because I don't like 'showing myself' to people who aren't interested and don't really care - if I thought someone really wanted to know me for the right reasons, then I'd take it down. What about you?
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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