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Thread: Famous Betas

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    Default Famous Betas

    The title says it all - debate who's a famous (fictional and non-fictional) Beta. The idea is that you can read a thousand type descriptions but you really need to get a feel for the types and the relations yourself to fully understand Socionics.

    We already got a pretty good ISTj list; let's see whether we can find another other Betas, and why you think them to be Betas.

    ISTj list
    Morpheus (The Matrix)
    Agent Smith (The Matrix)
    Mace Windu (Star Wars)
    Obi-Wan Kenobi (Star Wars)
    The Emperor (Star Wars)
    Principal Skinner (The Simpsons)
    Master Chief John-117 (Halo computer game series)
    Atticus Finch (To Kill a Mockingbird)
    The Romans
    The Germans
    Ayn Rand
    Jonathan Niednagel
    Christy Mathewson
    Mike Krzyzewski
    Carl Jung
    George Steinbrenner
    Gordan Ramsey
    Toshiro Mifune
    Gregor Mendel

    Five

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    Asuka's an ESTp,

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    Fict. characters

    INFps

    Homer Simpson


    I'd say he's an ESFp/SEE character. Another example of how you can look like your semi-dual when you want to.

    And I agree with you on Micheal Jackson, but I think Janet Jackson is an ISFp/SEI. What are the chance there would be two IEIs in the family.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    dunno about simpson. I think he is an unhealthy INFp. .he is also typed as INFp on all MBTI sites but then I remember CS typed him as ESFp too after some serious analysis. Hrm, Hrm, Hrm. whats the deal with the semi-duals?

    Janet Jackson - it can be. Ill do some research.

    What are the chance there would be two IEIs in the family.
    My brother is an INFp too and I know another family with 2 INFp sisters.
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    INFps

    Jim Morrison
    Robbie Williams
    Billy Corgan
    Jimmy Hendrix
    Chris Martin
    Thom Yorke
    Kylie Minogue
    Michael Jackson
    Janet Jackson
    Peter Sculthorpe
    Baby
    Ishy

    HarryBottom
    Kurt Cobain
    Anthony Kiedis

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    ISTjs

    Lenin

    ESTps

    Stalin
    I think you got it reversed. I see Stalin as the ISTj, Lenin as the ESTp.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    yeah. thanks. corrected.
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    For the more famous Betas (ie. Stalin, Lenin etc.) it might be an idea to include why they are that type, because that'll help all of us to get an idea of how the types can present themselves.

    Just an idea

    Five

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    Sorry, that was me.

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    I'm back, assholes! Herzy's Avatar
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    Add me up there. I'm pretty famous.
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymous
    For the more famous Betas (ie. Stalin, Lenin etc.) it might be an idea to include why they are that type, because that'll help all of us to get an idea of how the types can present themselves.

    Just an idea

    Five
    Dmitri Lytov wrote about that in socionics.org:

    Vladimir Lenin. His multivolume "Collected Works" make people think he was an intellectual. In fact, he was not: most of these papers are his orders, i.e. things hardly classifiable as "literary work"; he liked discussions only for the opportunity to humiliate his opponents; and he was the first of Russian revolutionaries who established relations with organized criminality. He was incapable of doing forecasts (two months before the revolution he said: "Only our grandsons will see socialism in russia") while possessing at the same time extremely great improvisational skills. He disliked intellectuals and used the whole wealth of Russian vocabulary to describe them Russian typologists believe he was ESTP; and, in fact, many features really make him much similar to Peter the Great.

    Joseph Stalin. I agree with you about his being TJ (all other American sources say the same); but let Me add some more information. The thing I cannot understand is how American typologists arrived at the belief in his extraversion. In fact, he was a model introvert! In spite of his enormous power, he was extremely shy and closed towards people he had to communicate with. Leon Trotsky Describes This Feature In a very Colorful Way; and what I know is that Trotsky's books are easy to find in the US, so that you can easily disprove or verify my words. He liked to present his own opinion as that generally accepted: he used to say, "there is an opinion" instead of "I think". He spoke rarely and thought a lot. His strategy was not extensive - he persuaded the party to forget about expanding revolution outside Russia and to think about the internal order of the country; Unlike Lenin, he did not believe that people outside Russia would gladly meet revolution in their own countries, and relied in this problem only upon weapons.
    Another important thing is that he could not be intuitive. Even much more than Lenin he tended to practice more than to pure ideas. He used to say "we people of practice" opposed to "worthless idealists". In the Soviet era, he was glorified as a "great developer of Marxist theory"; in fact, he was incapable of abstract thinking. A good example - Lenin wrote him a memo with a proposal to make a forecast: Stalin was offended by that proposal, and replied "Do you think I am incapable of serious working, if you want Me to spend time for such worthless things?" He collected a big library of anti-Soviet literature, but read all books with a narrow practical objective: to detect enemy's weak points. Characteristic for his weak abstract thinking is his "friendship" with Hitler - he did not want to realize Hitler ' strive for expansion; he only noticed similarity of two regimes. He was suspicious to people around him and used to say "a man - a problem, no man - no problem".

    I agree with his conclusions.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by krae
    Artists/Musicians/Composers

    INFps

    Jim Morrison
    Robbie Williams
    Billy Corgan
    Jimmy Hendrix
    Chris Martin
    Thom Yorke
    Kylie Minogue
    Michael Jackson
    Janet Jackson
    Peter Sculthorpe
    Kurt Cobain
    Anthony Kiedis
    James Holden
    Sasha (not that german pop-ass )
    Baby
    Ishy
    HarryBottom
    1337 mu51c14nZ0r R w3!

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    1337 mu51c14nZ0r R w3!

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    Possible ISTjs - Li Mu Bai, Yu Shu Lien (both from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon) and Sam Fisher (Splinter Cell). Any thoughts?

    Plus, what makes Obi-Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, John-117 and Morpheus all ISTj? What do these fictional and non-fictional ISTjs have in common. What do you look for?

    Five

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    Two more possible ISTjs - Batman and Agent 47. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codename_47 and scroll down to "Personality" for a description.

    Hmm ... any ideas?

    Five

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    What do these fictional and non-fictional ISTjs have in common. What do you look for?

    Five
    I don't want to comment too much on those fictional characters you listed because I don't know most of them well enough.

    This is what usually tips me off about ISTjs:

    - logical in their arguments, not ethical or emotional
    - strong willed, but not in an aggressive way - they are walls, not battering rams
    - socially self-confident, not shy, but not overly talkative and tending to be quiet
    - tend to be physical and sporty, and in touch with their surroundings
    - stubborn in their ways and ideas, prefer to stick to methods and ideas they know, dislike experimenting with change in those
    - good in analysis of facts and data, bad in proposing novel ideas using those.
    - prefer to use their analyses to confirm what they already believe, rather than question it in order to find alternatives
    - set in their ways
    - orderly and methodical
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  18. #18
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    Is Jesus on that list? :/

    And the owl, too?

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    Calvin and Hobbes is so totally Beta.

    http://www.angelfire.com/wa/zzaran/calvin.html

    Note the fantasy world. How very INFp.

    Also note the recurring theme of tyranny (read: world domination). It's not really in the link I posted but certainly in other strips!

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    I got that in an email; very very beta.

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    That was a very good case that CuriousSoul made for Hitler as ENTp. I think he's right.

    Many tend to assume that messianic leaders and good orators necessarily are ENFjs, but socionics.org types even Nero and Caligula as ENFjs, which to me makes no sense at all.

    So it would be interesting to see q real refutal of CuriousSoul's argument. His "Hitler as ENTp supervisor of ISTj Germany" point is intriguing but perhaps a bit over the top.

    Also, there is a very interesting book called "Hitler's Table Talk" which are the transcripts by Bormann of conversations at Hitler's dinner table - but usuallly only with Hitler's side of the conversation. To me he does sound ENTp.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    just one thing: no other type can make such emotionaly charged speeches as ENFjs. and just so many things around him are so Beta. better someone start a new thread about Hitler (at the end he will be ENFj again, hehe)
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by krae
    just one thing: no other type can make such emotionaly charged speeches as ENFjs. and just so many things around him are so Beta. better someone start a new thread about Hitler (at the end he will be ENFj again, hehe)
    It's frustrating that the only argument everyone seems to have for Hitler as ENFj is the "no other type can make such emotionally charged speeches as ENFjs".

    How does it follow that an ENTp cannot also be able to make emotionally charged speeches?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Actually, ENTps can be very good, emotional, persuasive speakers.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    well I know ENFjs and i know ENTps and I just can't miss it! their style of speeches is specific for each type and I can make the difference thats it.
    why not judging someone's type only from one trait when its so obvious and type related trait?
    http://forum.socionix.com

    I don't see what's so important about the possibility of extraterrestrial life. It's just more people to declare war on.

    EVERYONE PLZ CONTINUE TO UPLOAD INFINITE AMOUNT OF PICS OF "CUTE" CATS AND PUPPIES. YOU KNOW WE GIVE A SHIT!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Fict. characters

    INFps

    Homer Simpson


    I'd say he's an ESFp/SEE character. Another example of how you can look like your semi-dual when you want to.
    The thing about trying to type a TV character is it's an exercise in futility; the character is malleable, and different writers will take part shaping the character's personality even over the course of the same episode. That said, I definitely think there is a lot of INFp in there for Homer's humor:
    - "Rock stars ... is there anything they don't know?"
    - "I'm a rage-aholic! I'm addicted to rage-ahol!"
    - "America's health care system is second only to Japan ... Canada, Sweden, Great Britain ... well, all of Europe. But you can thank your lucky stars we don't live in Paraguay!"
    - "Look, the thing about my family is there's five of us. Marge, Bart, Girl Bart, the one who doesn't talk, and the fat guy. How I loathe him."

    His behavior was more ESTp in the first two seasons (really, his was just a drunk, hedonistic, angry dad); later, his character took on a less cardboard personality, resembing an ESFp in behavior, but his humor has been more of an INFp thing, resting on an innate irony and naivete.

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