Tormented by ISTp's need for solitude

[RusskiENFP]

I've had to get used to my ISTP friend's need to disappear into the woodwork for days at a time, but it's starting to wear on me. His introversion DRIVES ME INSANE.

We have so much fun when we hang out--I love how his mind works. I've even accepted the fact that he answers all my questions with questions. But after a day of hanging out, I want to rehash how very fun indeed the fun was, but he just curls up into his little introverted cave and I don't hear from him for days, which feel like eternities. What's an ENFP to do?

[consentingadult]

I've had to get used to my ISTP friend's need to disappear into the woodwork for days at a time, but it's starting to wear on me. His introversion DRIVES ME INSANE.

We have so much fun when we hang out--I love how his mind works. I've even accepted the fact that he answers all my questions with questions. But after a day of hanging out, I want to rehash how very fun indeed the fun was, but he just curls up into his little introverted cave and I don't hear from him for days, which feel like eternities. What's an ENFP to do?

Accept him for what he is. It is not his responsibility to fulfill your social and emotional needs, it's yours. It's OK to ask him for attention, but if he does not feel like it, respect that and find another way to have your needs fulfilled. Your need for attention might actually be pushing him away, so give him some slack and do not emphasize what you perceive to be his inhibition.

I get the feeling something's wrong here and that either you are not ENFp or he isn't ISTp. I get the feeling you are either ENFj or INFp, or even some other ethical/feeling type.

[force my hand]

I don't know, but I sympathize with your ISTp friend. Dealing with life requires putting a lot of effort into your 'public face' (or, as The Weakerthans would say, "ironing your carefully-crafted disguise"), and we definitely need a certain measure of downtime.

[Ms. Kensington]

<3 istps.

i agree, let him be (is what to do). if you are enfp the fact that hes around and answers your calls lets you know how he feels.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Do you think it would be possible to talk to him about how you feel

[meatburger]

edit

[Slacker]

Maybe relationships with ISTps work best when you live with them, because they can't get too far away for too long.

Actually, the same might be said of ENFps. I have huge guilt over a few friends I just can't remember to call and get together with. I bet they're annoyed with me too. Last time I ran into this INTp friend, she said, "I know I gave you my phone number, but maybe you've lost it. Here it is again anyway."

[consentingadult]

Ive decided that ISTp guys dont make good friends for me. Or at least the two i know dont. Remember we are quite different. I went over to my ISTp friends house the other day for an Australia day bbq. Me and his other ISTp friend came. He was quite annoyed no one came and went all quiet, dissapearing often into his room. I had a broken hand and i had to catch a 50 min tram then a 40 min train to get to this party. He ended up ringing up his ISTp fuckbuddy lol and asking us if we need a ride to the station after about 2 hours. He tried apologising the next day with sms but frankly hes a tosser and does this type of thing all the time. He never comes to me, always just wants to have beers at his house. Jesus im sick of beers in his hole of a bedroom with his morose attitude.

Other ISTp friend i simply haven't talked to for at least 2 months. We talked on msn today and he said to sms him but he didn't reply(1 day later). When im with him were both quite quiet and i dunno its comfortable but thats about it.

So its just not worth it for me at the moment, i have a lot of friends and certianlly dont need them.

Sounds like their behavior is quite childish. I think you indeed do well just kicking them out of your life, you don't have to put of with that kind of thing.

I have a question for you, just for my understanding of type and the principle of duality. What is it that makes you think you are ENFp? I read your posts and I get the impression you're a very likable guy, but I do not get the same vibe from you as other, more clearly pronounced self-acclaimed ENFps, such as Rick de Long or Topaz, or even Slacker Mom and Anndelise. In fact, I wouldn't know what label to put on you, you strike me as quite balanced as far as I can tell.

[consentingadult]

I have huge guilt over a few friends I just can't remember to call and get together with.

I'm guilty of that as well, procrastinating on friendships. My therapist suggested I was probably seeking out friends that really didn't fit me very well, and I was passive/aggressively avoiding them, because deep down, I didn't want to be with them. Of course, he was quite right

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Maybe relationships with ISTps work best when you live with them, because they can't get too far away for too long.

Actually, the same might be said of ENFps. I have huge guilt over a few friends I just can't remember to call and get together with. I bet they're annoyed with me too. Last time I ran into this INTp friend, she said, "I know I gave you my phone number, but maybe you've lost it. Here it is again anyway."

Slackermum, I can be quite lazy at times with keeping up to speed with some mates at times. But the important thing is to know that their there for me, imo. I like to think it's likewise

[jessica129]

Once you start criticizing this behavior, consider yourself written off. I never initiaite anything with anyone unless it's absolutely necessary...most of the times, if they don't initiate, you won't see me. End of story. Initiate it with him but don't criticize him for it.

[consentingadult]

Once you start criticizing this behavior, consider yourself written off. I never initiaite anything with anyone unless it's absolutely necessary...most of the times, if they don't initiate, you won't see me. End of story. Initiate it with him but don't criticize him for it.

hear hear!

[Slacker]

Yeah that's probably true. If it leads to criticism, it will make him feel *obligated* to call you. And ISTps aren't really instigators as far as get-togethers go anyway, and if any Delta feels *obligated* to do anything, it becomes really painful for them and unlikely it'll happen.

So call and arrange something sometimes, but make sure to give him his space - don't expect to see him every day, that isn't fair anyway. You said you see him every few days. I don't really see why that isn't often enough. How often do you expect to be together?

[xyz]

Slackermoms right, and with all else being said, I really don't think it's fair for other types for us to never initiate anything. Like meatburger said, it's it starts to feel a bit too one sided when you're always having beers in the same place.

[jessica129]

When I know the other person is starting to get irritated by the fact that I never initiate anything, I'll try to initiate something. I know how frustrating it is to be with someone who seems to make no effort whatsoever, but that's the beauty in E/I relations

But seriously, I think it's okay to bring it up to him that this is concerning you, but just don't make it into an arguement or a blame-fest...it'll only irritate him more and make the situation worse...you can't make someone want to spend time with you. Casually say something like "you should call more often, we should hang out more, i really like being with you, etc". And also, there's a good chance he has no idea it's irritating you. Unless someone tells me exactly what's wrong, I don't know and I assume everything is fine. Basically, just talk to him. Simple.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

When I know the other person is starting to get irritated by the fact that I never initiate anything, I'll try to initiate something. I know how frustrating it is to be with someone who seems to make no effort whatsoever, but that's the beauty in E/I relations

But seriously, I think it's okay to bring it up to him that this is concerning you, but just don't make it into an arguement or a blame-fest...it'll only irritate him more and make the situation worse...you can't make someone want to spend time with you. Casually say something like "you should call more often, we should hang out more, i really like being with you, etc". And also, there's a good chance he has no idea it's irritating you. Unless someone tells me exactly what's wrong, I don't know and I assume everything is fine. Basically, just talk to him. Simple.

I agree. You gotta try broach the subject somehow, with tact of course. Usually strong F types are better at doing that. And yeah, from what i've seen, usually its the E in an I/E relation who does most of the initiating. Constantly sitting in someones room drinking beer is gonna be boring. I dunno, suggest something new. It's altogether the ISTp is stuck in a rut and doesn't realise.

[XoX]

hah. I don't think ISTp is my dual. When I initiate something I want pretty much instant response. At least most of the time. I can't adapt to such behavior as described too well -> not ENFp for me.

[jessica129]

Honestly I don't know what to tell you......I've had this same problem with ISTps. Maybe it's due to the fact that we're both more comfortable letting someone else take the iniative? But it usually falls to me to be the one that's begging to hang out, to call....it's usually me that has to take responsibility for "connecting" with them.....when they're being stubborn and downright unresponsive, I'm the one that feels guilty.



Ouch. I could never put up with something like this in the long run.

Thus the reason ISTP's and ISFP's aren't duals :wink:

[meatburger]

What is it that makes you think you are ENFp? In fact, I wouldn't know what label to put on you, you strike me as quite balanced as far as I can tell.

Haha thanks man thats a nice compliment. ENFp actually tends to fit me like a glove to be honest. My closest friends are INFj and ESTj. Intertype relations for me just play out way too perfectly. Ive never been called balanced before lol. Perhaps im projecting that onto the forum which i suppose is good. Im actually a pretty odd one. I get into a lot of arguments with my istj dad so i can be an angry man

I was perhaps a little hasty with what i said. His other ISTp friend is the nicest one ive met actually. This first mate actually is hopeless. He has the biggest chip on his shoulder ive seen. He yelled at me as he was trying to get his remote control car going and i wasn't keeping the throttle going and the other ISTp told him off. Other ISTp seems to be more understanding of me.

To be honest its probablly just bad luck. One ISTp just a wanker and the other a bit tough and nothing in common with me

[Lobo]

Maybe relationships with ISTps work best when you live with them, because they can't get too far away for too long.

I agree, or at least be in a situation where there is constant interaction on a periodic basis, or share some type of forced bond. Otherwise, good luck, and I can see this apply to other introverted people as well. Sometimes it hurts any relationship (in the general term) when you are not in some way "forced" to resolve whatever it is that is bothering you with the other person, and vice-versa. Now a days for most people, you can just not log-in to any IM client, not answer calls, or simply avoid the person all-together and that's the end of it. Idk, I'm a proponent of fixing things on the spot before they get worse through voluntary separation, even though I won't like it at the moment.

I've had the same issue about ISTps not taking the initiative, and at least for me, it's more about not knowing if they don't want to spend time with you, and for what reasons they are not initiating. Since I don't like forcing myself on other people, or making them do things out of guilt when I ask to do something, when I don't get feedback I start doubting things and assume that I shouldn't be initiating anymore and wait. Of course, this doesn't happen with ones I know well enough, but the doubting might still be there at times. Even if someone tells me that they want me to initiate all the day I wouldn't mind, but at least tell me that.

[baydog]

It's not that they don't want to spend time with other people, maybe they have other interests at the time that they rather do or find stimulating. i'm not an ISTP but an ENFp so i cannot answer for them. There's a time an place for everything. I had an Istp roommate when i was in the corp, and worked next to ISTP's at my workspace.. We would have a good time talking all the time about all different types of subjects and the hours would fly by it seems. Istps like to talk about the opposite sex, sexual relations, situational occurences with other people in social settings (especially humorous things),other peoples actions and fashions, spiritual things. They especially like to talk about male- female relationships and it seems like we have the same type of humor and reasoning in most things. the funny thing one ISTP moved on to another job but lived close by and i ran into him one day and he asked me why i don't come around that much. I kinda felt bad i didn't but i had so many other things going on and also im real lazy when i have any free time and like to loaf around without a care in the world. All ISTP's are not alike, a lot depends on culture , upbringing and other factors. I'm African- American so i find African -American ISTP's more sociable and talkative in my experiences. Just my 2 cents for all its worth

[machintruc]

Plan the next Columbine with him

[xyz]

Geez, I didn't know not taking the initiative got so many people a little sour.

Plan the next Columbine with him

enough with the emotionless killer stuff already!

[xyz]

Whaaaa?!!? Are you implying that.......?!??

Where you goin with this dolphin?

[mikemex]

There are many psychologically hurt SLIs out there. I know many and as far as I can tell you, only the ones with a stable family are nice to be around in the long run.

It seems to me that those who are used to be alone, to have superficial relationships with others, specially if young, tend to have this characteristics:

* Have little to no tolerance to what they dislike. So if their wishes are compromised, they tend to abandon the person or situation which forces them to choice.
* Too focused on immediate gratification.
* Low self esteem, which causes many things, but I've observed from close that they feel threatened if they are challenged in an area they consider themselves experts in.

It's like if they largely lack maturity and manifests itself as a lack of social skills. For any relationship to work, one must be always willing to give up on a part of oneself. It is simply impossible to have healthy relationships with other people if you go on with an "my way, or the highway" attitude. It's probably why I've observed that those in stable families do it much better: having a family teaches you tolerance, patience, etc.

I can only explain this by recalling what Kiersey says about ISTPs: when under stress they behave like a negative version of ENFJ.

[meatburger]

There are many psychologically hurt SLIs out there. I know many and as far as I can tell you, only the ones with a stable family are nice to be around in the long run.

yeah man I have to agree. My friend has always been on the low end of the social scale. Hes a ginga (ginger hair) and used to get into heaps of fights. He just has something about him that annoys people. Because of this he has anger management problems and has emotional problems as he feels people abandon him. When we were younger and he was being a tool i would choose my other friends over him which may have indefinately made him not trust me. He will just start talking really loud and get angry a lot of the time. I know an ENFp who's ISTp boyfriend is a bit of a bogan, but ever since hes got her hes really come into his own. Successful head chef and happy bloke.

Sometimes i worry that perhaps i am not ENFp enough. I mean if being around you're dual a lot heals you what the hell does living with a conflictor do?

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Sometimes i worry that perhaps i am not ENFp enough. I mean if being around you're dual a lot heals you what the hell does living with a conflictor do?

I am sure you are 100% ENFp.

Conflictor relation is more of a stalemate..both your strong points cancel each other out.

Conflictor not as damaging as supervisor. Supervisor gets to your weak points even if you have a good family and are secure.

You can only do your best dude. Maybe you could try talk to him. It might not help of course, but if your reaching the stage of not wanting to be his friend anymore. Maybe if you talk to him he'll open up. If not at least you tried. The way things are, it's will get worse for your friend as time goes by.

What do you think?

[force my hand]

Sometimes i worry that perhaps i am not ENFp enough. I mean if being around you're dual a lot heals you what the hell does living with a conflictor do?

Think about it, though - we have an internal conflict going on 24/7, so it's not surprising that people (even if they are our duals) can be at each others' throats.

Plus the fact that he's a dude and not a chick might have something to do with it.

[xyz]

Meatburger, you're ENFp enough man. Just by what you've told me i'd want to take a stroll through Australia.


(Btw, there sure have been a few SLI's here lately. Awesome)

[meatburger]

Aww shucks guys lol. I certianlly can talk to him but its just one thing after another with us. He needs a girlfriend who likes him pronto. Until this happens hes a lost cause i think. He just smokes so much weed aswell, gotta be affecting his brain somehow.

About conflictor yeah you're probablly right. Im my mums supervisor and i think im pretty nice to her most of the time. My dad criticises me basically every day. I think its turned me into less of a happy-go lucky ENFp and more of a fiery serious one. WTF MY SUBWAY HAS OLIVES IN IT I DIDN'T ASK FOR OLIVES AWWW FUCK. THAT GIRL IS EVIL HELLSPAWN (oops back on track).

I would love to have a good ISTp friend. I think having a common interest / something to do would go a far way towards it. Anyway sorry Ruski i dont know what advice to give you lol. Just might have to have fun with him when he wants to and hang around others when he wants to do his own thing.

[mikemex]

It must suck to have an LSI parent. I have an LII parent and that's too much psychological pressure already. He criticizes me on a daily basis also...

I think it's very difficult for an IEE to keep an SLI friend for long unless there are external factors to keep them together. I know a lot of SEE/SLI friendships, but duality is quite rare I think. SLI like ideas and stuff, but it's not their strength to handle the abstract ones and get restless quickly. I think it's far easier for an IEE to adapt to the SLI's way of life than SLI to adapt to IEE's way of life.

[leckysupport]

It must suck to have an LSI parent. I have an LII parent and that's too much psychological pressure already. He criticizes me on a daily basis also...

I think it's very difficult for an IEE to keep an SLI friend for long unless there are external factors to keep them together. I know a lot of SEE/SLI friendships, but duality is quite rare I think. SLI like ideas and stuff, but it's not their strength to handle the abstract ones and get restless quickly. I think it's far easier for an IEE to adapt to the SLI's way of life than SLI to adapt to IEE's way of life.

yeah, your life is so hard.

[Topaz]

yeah, your life is so hard.

I miss our "lol" icon. I used to think ISTPs were easy going but they arent. They have to have so many things their way, even the relatively healthy ones. ENFPs on the other hand readily adjust to other people but only for short periods of time. Then they move on, changing with each new invironment. Inside we are always the same people though. I have many friends who come to me and say "How come you havent been around? Where have you been?" Like the phone only works one way, or like they cant come and visit me (they cant really, but I never told them they cant). I realize that I trained them to expect me to behave that way so I dont get too upset. So I decided not to feel guilty about not being in peoples faces all the time. If they want me, they can call me. If they dont call then they get to see me when I feel like it. SLIs are usually the ones I call only now and then or I meet them in places I frequent. If they are in a funky mood I move on. I havent seen that it does any good to worry about them or try to pull them out of their moods, try to fix them, help them or whatever. It seems unlikely that I would marry a person like that but I havent met many avalaible ISTP women so I cant be sure.

[jessica129]

I think I am the only female ISTP on the planet.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I think I am the only female ISTP on the planet.

Na. I know some.

[Topaz]

Im sure there is a wonderful domestic side to ISTPs that is revealed in marriage that I have overlooked. Getting them to that place however is probably a minor miracle. We'll have to consult our ISTP guru SlackerMom for that kind of input.

[leckysupport]

I miss our "lol" icon. I used to think ISTPs were easy going but they arent. They have to have so many things their way, even the relatively healthy ones. ENFPs on the other hand readily adjust to other people but only for short periods of time. Then they move on, changing with each new invironment. Inside we are always the same people though. I have many friends who come to me and say "How come you havent been around? Where have you been?" Like the phone only works one way, or like they cant come and visit me (they cant really, but I never told them they cant). I realize that I trained them to expect me to behave that way so I dont get too upset. So I decided not to feel guilty about not being in peoples faces all the time.

I'm a bit confused, your lonely, you think you're coming on too strong with people trying to fix this and socionics duality appears to not be helping you? Or am I very wrong?

[xyz]

Im sure there is a wonderful domestic side to ISTPs that is revealed in marriage that I have overlooked. Getting them to that place however is probably a minor miracle. We'll have to consult our ISTP guru SlackerMom for that kind of input.

Yeah seriously. Slackermom's gotta have some kinda uber ninja skills to get that type of person settled.

[Topaz]

I'm a bit confused, your lonely, you think you're coming on too strong with people trying to fix this and socionics duality appears to not be helping you? Or am I very wrong?

Hmmm.... Im not sure I understand what you mean the way you phrased the question but I'll try to answer you.
First of all, my situation is not dire, meaning Im not dying of loneliness. At this point in my life I would like to settle down though. I hope I dont come on too strong with people. I'm not sure I hang around long enough to do that (Im talking about people in general here. I dont like to overstay my welcome). I can see how an ENFP could come on too strong with an ISTP because he/she may get something from an ISTP that he doesnt get with other people hence may want more attention than what is possible for and ISTP to give. Since I dont know any ISTP females thats not the case with me at this point. I think one married lady I know is ISTP and she is very cool but I cant confirm it and she certainly is not available. The other ISTPs I know are guys. They are cool and all but somewhat loners. We hang out now and then but thats about it. They usually wait for me to initiate contact and sometimes they are moody and distant. Of the ones I see most often, one is rather lazy, another is industrious. If subtypes exist they are probably opposite subtypes. I tend to spend more time with people of other types.
As far as socionics goes in making a selection of a marriage partner I cant say that it has helped in any way, obviously. I try not to even think about it. I'm beginning to resign myself to the idea that duality may be a fluke that works out for a few people. What else can I conclude?

[Kim]

Yeah seriously. Slackermom's gotta have some kinda uber ninja skills to get that type of person settled.

Really? All ISTps I know love a life where things are in order, they have a mate, they are comfortable, and can focus on their hobbies. Within this environment, they want most things their way, but it's fairly easy to come up with compromises if you are an ENFp.

This is not to say that they are not adventurous. I went on the greatest spontaneos road trips with my ISTp ex. It seems as if when an ISTp feels settled and content, s/he is up for any adventure. It's great!