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Thread: Hidden Agenda of IEIs-INFps: introverted logic Ti

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    Default Hidden Agenda of IEIs-INFps: introverted logic Ti

    Speaking of INFp hidden agenda:

    How do you fulfill it? I want to make my INFps happy!
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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    Oh, you don't want to fulfill it. The Hidden Agenda is like what makes us tick. Without it... we've pretty much got nothing to live for. Just let your INFps keep groping out into the void that is humanity itself and occasionally your breasts (I didn't just say that to a 15-year-old girl).

    EDIT: Now that I think about it, you can help them by making sure the following things are always nearby: a computer with fast internet access, lots of books with a library and big book store nearby, a park, a television, and lots of conversation pieces.

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    This hidden agenda thing REALLY manifests itself in me.

    I always want to understand everything, and I'm quite a pseudo-intellectual, I must admit.


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    Default On the Infamous Hidden Agenda

    I think you should not confuse intellectual curiousity with the hidden agenda. The former concerns almost all semi-intelligent people, the latter is a certain peculiarity of ISFPs and INFPs. Ti as the hidden agenda of ISFPs and INFPs seems to be more about willingness to listen and be persuaded by almost any kinds of semi-logical arguments regardless of their truthfulness, at least as long as they are presented with a passion and personal conviction, probably partly as a result of Te as PoLR, which again occasionally manifests itself as flat out denial of reality.

    Anyway the hidden agenda is a controversial idea that makes more sense in some cases than in others. In a sense it is what limits you the most. For ISFPs and INFPs it should mean that they never know if they understand things and therefore like others explaining things to them. Well, I am not sure if this actually makes sense, but the reason I am writing is that I believe it is very attractive to think that you have Ti, to understand as Sergei Ganin sums it up, as your hidden agenda, and indeed I used to think so too, but it is more complicated...

    Think rather in terms of:
    Judging/rationality = object of thought defines me = The truth is out there, regardless of what I happen to think of it.
    Perceiving/Irrationality = I define the object of thought = The truth is whatever I or someone else decides it is.
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    Yeah, well at least for me I sometimes lay out a whole argument and then end it with saying that I really have no idea what I'm talking about, and then I'm not entirely sure that I've made any sense until the other person recapitulates what they think I've said. I'm sure it's annoying for people sometimes but it's hard not to do it... This is what ESTPs do well I think; they give you a "felt sense" of the in a situation even when they're not adding anything you didn't know.

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    I think my hidden agenda is...trying to find someone who cares about me more than I care about myself (yes, roll eyes) and when they show imperfection and worst, some sort of betrayal, i get very very enraged and defensive. Hmm. That makes no sense.
    INFP

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    Default IEI/INFp Ti "hidden agenda": It has to make sense

    =)

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    That's hidden agenda, isn't it?
    is like a wet kiss on the cheek and a warm hug by a cute smiling girl.
    is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
    is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
    is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.

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    It's very important to me if it makes sense. I only trust what other people are saying IF they make sense. And I keep wanting to make sense of everything.
    INFP

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    If everything make sense, you should be fine with everything?
    is like a wet kiss on the cheek and a warm hug by a cute smiling girl.
    is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
    is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
    is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.

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    Clearance level: 10 (9 is maximum) Fermi's Avatar
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    That need of yours, is that the essence that make infp gullable?

    Could be
    is like a wet kiss on the cheek and a warm hug by a cute smiling girl.
    is the confetti shots on your birthday party with all your friends.
    is a way to completely rip apart the face of god and stare directly at the naked universe.
    is like over here and then over there and they are all connected and I am on amphetamine.

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    I'm not an INFp, but I have the same hidden agenda. Yes, things need to make sense. Particularly movies. If life doesn't make sense, I see it as irony or randomness or something like that. If entertainment doesn't make sense... if there are loose ends in the plot or a lot of things that aren't explained or inconsistencies or illogical cause and effect relationships... then I cannot respect the movie. Peter says "Okay, so I don't know why that *insert nonsensical item here*, but it was still a good movie." And I'm like, "NOOOO!!! It didn't make sense!!!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I'm not an INFp, but I have the same hidden agenda. Yes, things need to make sense. Particularly movies. If life doesn't make sense, I see it as irony or randomness or something like that. If entertainment doesn't make sense... if there are loose ends in the plot or a lot of things that aren't explained or inconsistencies or illogical cause and effect relationships... then I cannot respect the movie. Peter says "Okay, so I don't know why that *insert nonsensical item here*, but it was still a good movie." And I'm like, "NOOOO!!! It didn't make sense!!!"

    When he'd say that sort of thing, I would be like, "Yeah it was still a good movie *goes on to talk about how that one part didn't make sense and tries to make sense of it*" Then Peter is like, " *doesn't listen*" hahahha

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    I'm not at all gullible... because I never *know* anything. Everything I know is held in a malliable state, because I never have ALL of the information. I am willing to change what I *know* whenever it seems fittingmakes sense to do so.


    When he'd say that sort of thing, I would be like, "Yeah it was still a good movie *goes on to talk about how that one part didn't make sense and tries to make sense of it*" Then Peter is like, " *doesn't listen*" hahahha
    lol in my conversations it usually plays out more like

    Peter: oh come on, it was a pretty good movie
    me: I dunno... I mean, yeah... but... what about *blah blah blah*

    Both of us continue to try to make sense of it, as well as analyze foreshadowing that could have been done better. If we can figure out all of the parts that weren't really explained, I may drop it and say, "yeah, it was allright" but if not I say "eh, I'm disappointed with the movie. That part could have been done a lot better" or "the ending could have been a lot stronger"

    not that I dislike every movie I see. I like a lot of movies. I just don't like the ones that aren't thought out enough and leave unanswered questions, other than the type that play into the overall plot (like when they PURPOSELY don't give the ending, like that story The Lady and the Tiger or whatever it's called).
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    Creepy-pokeball

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    It makes sense to me. Have you ever MET the people that make and indulge in that horse shit lol? I think you have to look further out to see why it makes sense.

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    i love infp's. you guys should post more.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    Default IEI-INFp hidden agenda of Ti

    I'm interested in learning more about this idea. niffweed told me a little about it in regards to hitta, whom he believes is an IEI who is (unhealthily) overfocused on his HA, and I'd like to know what others think about it, whether they agree with this idea or not (not necessarily whether hitta is "Ti-IEI" or not, but just the idea in general.) the idea is apparently controversial so I want to spark some discussions here, and get a feel of what you guys think of it.

    there's a lot of talk about this here on the wiki regarding hitta, with a few who argue he's an IEI with this HA overfocus.

    so, does this idea make sense to you? couldn't this phenomenon happen among other types as well? (Si-LII/Se-LIE/Te-IEE/etc.) and not even that, what do you guys think of the idea that any type could get overfocused on any function/s (perhaps from being raised a certain way or with certain conflicting types, etc.)

    sorry if this is not anything all that new, or if a thread already exists on this subject (I couldn't find one)

    I personally think this idea of superid focus (or any non-ego focus in general) is pretty damn believable, but for the record I'm having an extremely extremely difficult time seeing hitta as an example of it.

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    I made a case for that here:

    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14990

    In the case of hidden agenda:

    unshakeable and stubborn defense of ideas and beliefs against all opposition, with unwillingness to even discuss the possibility of their not being correct
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I don't have a strong opinion on Hitta's type other than Ti/Fe valuing. Though if he can be a "Ti-IEI," why can't he be an "Fe-LII"?

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    I've been wondering lately how accurate the whole over-focusing on the HA is based on people like Hitta for example, but then again I have no evidence to the contrary, so.. *shrugs*
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't have a strong opinion on Hitta's type other than Ti/Fe valuing. Though if he can be a "Ti-IEI," why can't he be an "Fe-LII"?
    very good point. why isn't he a Fe-LII?
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    very good point. why isn't he a Fe-LII?
    *shrug* you ask "why not", I ask, why not ask "why".

    I think that "IEI overfocusing on Ti HA" is more likely than "LII overfocusing on Fe" because:

    1) I think that to focus too much on your HA is more likely than on your dual-seeking - unless, perhaps, you're already convinced that your HA is satisfied, so you get into a super-id "trip" (but that's another story)
    2) in hitta's particular case, Fe seems to me to be more of a "taken for granted" thing for him, Ti more of something he puts a particular effort on
    3) in videos, he seems more IP than IJ to me.
    4) finally, to me he just seems to devalue Te far more than he does Se.

    That's my present opinion, not the "truth".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    *shrug* you ask "why not", I ask, why not ask "why".

    I think that "IEI overfocusing on Ti HA" is more likely than "LII overfocusing on Fe" because:

    1) I think that to focus too much on your HA is more likely than on your dual-seeking - unless, perhaps, you're already convinced that your HA is satisfied, so you get into a super-id "trip" (but that's another story)
    2) in hitta's particular case, Fe seems to me to be more of a "taken for granted" thing for him, Ti more of something he puts a particular effort on
    3) in videos, he seems more IP than IJ to me.
    4) finally, to me he just seems to devalue Te far more than he does Se.

    That's my present opinion, not the "truth".
    possibly. i think carla, for instance, has a pretty high Fe-focus. i think even once salawa suggested Fe-ego for her? (don't quote me, could be wrong.)

    he does seem IP-ishly relaxed, i agree. but i think pedro the lion can give a similar impression in his old videos. i don't know about Se-valuing, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    I'm interested in learning more about this idea. niffweed told me a little about it in regards to hitta, whom he believes is an IEI who is (unhealthily) overfocused on his HA, and I'd like to know what others think about it, whether they agree with this idea or not (not necessarily whether hitta is "Ti-IEI" or not, but just the idea in general.) the idea is apparently controversial so I want to spark some discussions here, and get a feel of what you guys think of it.

    there's a lot of talk about this here on the wiki regarding hitta, with a few who argue he's an IEI with this HA overfocus.

    so, does this idea make sense to you?
    The idea is totally wrong, and it has no support in the Socionics theory. Hitta is not an IEI, that's for sure. The idea looks rather insane if you take a closer look at it. Do that, please.

    It is an example of this forum going astray, inventing its own version of Socionics, and you will probably not find a serious socionist outside of this forum that is willing to support it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    In the case of hidden agenda:

    unshakeable and stubborn defense of ideas and beliefs against all opposition, with unwillingness to even discuss the possibility of their not being correct
    That might be a description of how Ti hidden agenda manifests but not all people who behave like that have Ti hidden agenda. As a behavioral pattern that is rather common actually. It depends more on what are the motivations behind the behavior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XoX View Post
    That might be a description of how Ti hidden agenda manifests but not all people who behave like that have Ti hidden agenda. As a behavioral pattern that is rather common actually. It depends more on what are the motivations behind the behavior.
    Correct and good point. The mistake people make here over and over again is to think that they can interpret the motivations behind the behaviour they have observed (and interpreted) with total accuracy, and also that there can be only one possible explanation for that kind of behaviour. They are actually very naive in that respect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Correct and good point. The mistake people make here over and over again is to think that they can interpret the motivations behind the behaviour they have observed (and interpreted) with total accuracy, and also that there can be only one possible explanation for that kind of behaviour. They are actually very naive in that respect.
    If you ask me, by stating it that way, you just made the mistake yourself But I understand what you're getting at. It doesn't mean people should stop looking for explanations and stop sharing their thoughts though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't have a strong opinion on Hitta's type other than Ti/Fe valuing. Though if he can be a "Ti-IEI," why can't he be an "Fe-LII"?
    because of where we are. this is the internet.

    i'll respond more thoroughly later, but this is something i've talked about rather extensively with regards to hitta.

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    ok; essentially, you have a situation in this particular community that is more closely related to logic and intuition than to Fe. rick calls the integral type of socionics ILE. i think that this has a great deal to do with the idea that a number of IEIs who are very particularly Ti (and i don't necessarily think such IEIs are "unhealthy" per se), which might be a relatively rare phenomenon IRL, might be attracted here. these are not limited to idiots like hitta/phaedrus/jarno, but are also extended to IEIs like snegledmaca and kioshi (if those people are IEIs) that seem very superficially logical and intellectual.


    basically the way i see it, hitta's videos, which are extremely informative about him as a person, display a very different persona than the Ti-blatherer that wanders around here. i think that this would apply to many of the Ti-ish IEIs that go here; they are able to hide under the facade of Ti-systematization and braindeadness over the internet, but they are very different people IRL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    basically the way i see it, hitta's videos, which are extremely informative about him as a person, display a very different persona than the Ti-blatherer that wanders around here. i think that this would apply to many of the Ti-ish IEIs that go here; they are able to hide under the facade of Ti-systematization and braindeadness over the internet, but they are very different people IRL.
    Basically, the "Ti-blatherer" wandering around in the heads and coming out of the mouths of idiots like Phaedrus and Hitta are impossible to find in IEIs. Only logical types can think and behave like those two jerks do. That's an empirical fact.

    IEIs are much more sophisticated and polite. They would never come up with such ideas, and even less would they try to "force" their ideas onto others, totally disregarding oppositions and rejections of others. Wake up, folks! You must learn the basic differences between logical and ethical types, not insist on confusing them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    The idea looks rather insane if you take a closer look at it.

    Care to explain how it's so "insane?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus View Post
    Basically, the "Ti-blatherer" wandering around in the heads and coming out of the mouths of idiots like Phaedrus and Hitta are impossible to find in IEIs. Only logical types can think and behave like those two jerks do. That's an empirical fact.

    IEIs are much more sophisticated and polite. They would never come up with such ideas, and even less would they try to "force" their ideas onto others, totally disregarding oppositions and rejections of others. Wake up, folks! You must learn the basic differences between logical and ethical types, not insist on confusing them.

    Wow, you called yourself an idiot. Like, explicitly. Either you REALLY spaced out or you're posting here under another name.

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    If only logical types are keen on "forcing" their ideas onto others, and if Phaedrus likes Lytov's typings so much, perhaps he could explain why Lytov (and others, I believe) typed such people (correctly or incorrectly) as ethical types:

    Che Guevara, Adolf Hitler, Gaddafi (he has his own political views as per his "green book"), Jesus, Mohammed, bin Laden, Leon Trotsky - all typed as ENFj.

    Are all those typings wrong? Or perhaps those people weren't having ideas and "forcing" them on others? Yes Phaedrus referred to IEIs, and these are EIEs; but he was referring to ethical vs logical generally.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    4shame.
    Last edited by inumbra; 05-14-2015 at 06:36 PM.

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    I think you summed it up very well.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I agree that you can definitely find certain INFps with a big Ti emphasis, but Hitta is not one of them. There is NO Ni in hitta lol.

    And he's static, and looks it - ever watch his videos? Ti INTj forral.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    I agree that you can definitely find certain INFps with a big Ti emphasis, but Hitta is not one of them. There is NO Ni in hitta lol.

    And he's static, and looks it - ever watch his videos? Ti INTj forral.
    thank you for this wonderful display of unadulterated ignorance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    .

    In essence, I don't understand why Hitta posts his +/- systems seemingly the same way every time, and then when met with criticism or confusion about it, just reiterates what he said before in somewhat different words. I don't understand why it never seems to change... why it is so strictly adhered to. I don't get it. He doesn't try to make it make sense. He doesn't try to make others see how it might be real and not some systemized-arbitrary-irrelevant-to-reality idea in his mind.

    It's like...

    Hitta: All corvettes are red and all camaros are blue.
    Someone else: But, I've seen a red camaro before.
    Hitta: Then it was a corvette. All comaros are blue. All corvettes are red.
    Someone else: Sometimes cars are purple, any car can be purple, even camaros and corvettes.
    Hitta: All corvettes are red and all comaros are blue. Neither of them are purple.
    Someone else: Look, a purple corvette!
    Hitta: No, purple corvettes don't exist. Either that's not a corvette, or it's not purple. All corvettes are red.
    Someone else: Your theory about corvettes and comaros is full of crap!
    Hitta: People here don't like my ideas because they're opposed to innovative new ideas and hate me.

    That's what I feel happens. I just don't get it.
    lol nice description. Yes unfortunately this is what happens :\.

  39. #39

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    i think i have only seen IEIs go mad with their Ti HA in the case when they are in charge of something and need to Te. Or else, they might over focus on it when dealing with an Fe interest of theirs. For example. I know one who would explain minutae of linguistic syntax for no apparent reason, with no apparent reason in sight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    i think this iis the most wonderful example of Ti vs Te ever.
    I hate it when people make statements like this. I'd be a flaming Te type if that were remotely true! The distinction it makes is actually average person vs. deluded idiot with a stick up their ass, not Te vs. Ti.
    , Se-sub
    8w8-3w8-7w8 sx/sx

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