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    Default the promised account of boston and user liveandletlive

    on the wiki because its much too long to post here. it's almost entirely unedited. some of you may find it very long and uninteresting.

    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t...eed17/Danielle




    tbh there are elements of it which i am still uncomfortable with sharing with many of you. i was very seriously considering just throwing the whole thing away. however when i showed it to danielle she reported that much of it was interesting and informative, so i'll throw it out as a possible source of information for anyone interested.
    Last edited by niffweed17; 02-13-2008 at 10:32 PM.

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    authentic!
    The future of Socionics:
    Quote Originally Posted by Maritsa View Post
    Many black Americans are SEE type.

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    It is really authentic, isn't it? I appreciate your openness niffweed. <3 It was a good read and it felt very real.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
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    it was very cool of u to do that and be so open about everything- so glad u came!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    It is really authentic, isn't it? I appreciate your openness niffweed. <3 It was a good read and it felt very real.
    Yeah... I agree.
    Suomea

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    *Feels bad about saying Niff was socially retarded in the past*

    Definitely some insight into what you are like though... I feel like I can almost respect you some now so that's good I guess...lol
    I'm guessing that liveandletlive is Danielle right?
    If that's the case... good job liveandletlive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    It is really authentic, isn't it? I appreciate your openness niffweed. <3 It was a good read and it felt very real.
    I agree also.

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    yes, thank you niffweed <3

    however it is also illuminating that Se makes me feel exactly the way you described in way of social expectation/feeling as if one has no experience and how this would make you a loser. It all depends on the relation i suppose.

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    I'm reading through it and find it very interesting...what I'm wondering is: is it possible you have yourself mistyped based on an apparent Fe polr which is really a social issue unrelated to socionics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I'm reading through it and find it very interesting...what I'm wondering is: is it possible you have yourself mistyped based on an apparent Fe polr which is really a social issue unrelated to socionics?
    what is it that makes you see that?

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    the main theme of your story (I didn't read the boston part) is a general social decline, for no one reason. what I gathered was that you naturally had a different personality than your peers, which surfaced more as puberty grew closer. the intellectual aspect was probably there...you may have been smarter than most of your friends. but the physical aspect was obviously slower (the sexual aspect of the story). so, it seemed to snowball while you may have not even been aware of most of it, until you woke up one day and realized you were alone. based on these circumstances, I was just suggesting that your apparent lack of Fe may not be a lack of, or dislike of, Fe...it's even possible, based off of a subtle intuition I got from your recollection of the good part of your childhood, that you did value Fe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    I'm reading through it and find it very interesting...what I'm wondering is: is it possible you have yourself mistyped based on an apparent Fe polr which is really a social issue unrelated to socionics?
    i see what you're saying but in his case i think it's one in the same. i know many intps that have these related issues with and social issues as well. you can tell that niffweed's are the same in his description as well.

    and yes, my name is Danielle IRL.
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    so strrrng, do you think LiveandletLive is mistyped too, then? Because it sure sounded like there was a duality thing going on - he felt comfortable to say anything and not judged. That's just what duality initially felt like to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    the main theme of your story (I didn't read the boston part) is a general social decline, for no one reason. what I gathered was that you naturally had a different personality than your peers, which surfaced more as puberty grew closer. the intellectual aspect was probably there...you may have been smarter than most of your friends. but the physical aspect was obviously slower (the sexual aspect of the story). so, it seemed to snowball while you may have not even been aware of most of it, until you woke up one day and realized you were alone. based on these circumstances, I was just suggesting that your apparent lack of Fe may not be a lack of, or dislike of, Fe...it's even possible, based off of a subtle intuition I got from your recollection of the good part of your childhood, that you did value Fe.
    that's really a pretty pitiful case. i sort of see what you mean about a social collapse not necessarily being Fe related, but i think you're also being blind about what my goals were and in general the motivations behind my comportment.

    at any rate, you would have to give me some serious reason as to why you thought that my childhood were Fe. a "subtle intuition" is not exactly persuasive.

    actually, sort of pro-Fe behavior earlier in my life is something that i've always sort of noted and has something of a fountain of confusion. but, regardless, tell me where you see anything solely on the basis of this little sort of excerpt of my life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Let's not ascribe these social issues to one or a single type.. I've met many types with these issues, including people I think might be INTj, ISTp, ISTj, ENTp, and maybe even a few ethical types. I cannot be sufficiently certain of their types, but I can be certain that not all of them were ILI. The probability that everyone I've ever known who have expressed these issues to me being ILI is so small as to have no weight in my mind.

    Some socionists relate with emotion as the latin word that is used to encapsulate the concept is . Some people will say that it deals with more then emotion and I will say that it does as well, but emotion is certainly one of the primary focuses of and not social fluidity. Emotion althrough a component of social interaction is not a requirement, often weak people can deal with social interaction thru more business like behavior.

    I do not know Niffweed, so I do not know if his social awkwardness has to do with PoLR but social awkwardness and inexperience is most definately not equal to PoLR. I've met some very socially fluid and engaging INTp's in my life as well.
    definitely, which is why i've tried to describe a great deal of personal information in this account. this is a case where you should certainly look at the motivations behind everything i've written.

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    After reading that essay, I am more sexually attracted to niffweed than ever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Let's not ascribe these social issues to one or a single type.. I've met many types with these issues, including people I think might be INTj, ISTp, ISTj, ENTp, and maybe even a few ethical types. I cannot be sufficiently certain of their types, but I can be certain that not all of them were ILI. The probability that everyone I've ever known who have expressed these issues to me being ILI is so small as to have no weight in my mind.

    Some socionists relate with emotion as the latin word that is used to encapsulate the concept is . Some people will say that it deals with more then emotion and I will say that it does as well, but emotion is certainly one of the primary focuses of and not social fluidity. Emotion althrough a component of social interaction is not a requirement, often weak people can deal with social interaction thru more business like behavior.

    I do not know Niffweed, so I do not know if his social awkwardness has to do with PoLR but social awkwardness and inexperience is most definately not equal to PoLR. I've met some very socially fluid and engaging INTp's in my life as well.
    i never say that social awkwardness= PoLR but that in niffweed's case it was.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    i never say that social awkwardness= PoLR but that in niffweed's case it was.
    Right now we are still trying to discern if that is truly the case.

    @Slacker- who cares what someone else who's never met me IRL thinks I am?
    I don't think that was her point, so you really have no grounds to be defensive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Right now we are still trying to discern if that is truly the case.

    I don't think that was her point, so you really have no grounds to be defensive.
    did u read niffweed's paper or ever talk to him about it? cuz it is the case.

    i wasn't getting defensive and i no what her reasons are for asking it.
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    I'm not saying niffweed isn't ILI, but his story has cleared a lot of things up for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I would like to commend you on this one actually, you do not do very much to project your ideas of people's type on others, but there are people who seem to believe they can have a accurate, if not extremely accurate view of someone's type based on just forum posts and anectodal evidence.

    I'm not sure if I'm willing to type niffweed until he gets out of college and gets a career.
    thank you for pretty much taking the words out of my mouth, hah!
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    niffweed gets real all over our asses.
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I would like to commend you on this one actually, you do not do very much to project your ideas of people's type on others, but there are people who seem to believe they can have a accurate, if not extremely accurate view of someone's type based on just forum posts and anectodal evidence.

    I'm not sure if I'm willing to type niffweed until he gets out of college and gets a career.
    fwiw dude, I think this sounds like you've got a good approach in regards to what your saying here (if that makes sense )

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    niffweed, I can understand feeling socially inept, not understanding vibes, being sort of scared, but what essentially is stopping you from getting out there and living, to whatever extent you desire? is it just a continuation of a circumstance that you've become accustomed to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    did u read niffweed's paper or ever talk to him about it? cuz it is the case.
    Saying that it is the case does not make it so. And I am not saying here that you are wrong nor am I saying that niffweed is wrong, but merely that there are those who would like to decide for themselves as to whether or not it was truly the case. And when you open yourself up in writing, do not expect people to just say "All is quite correct and hunky dory" without first looking closer at what is written, what goes unwritten, and what is between the words. Just sit back and let the truth surface. If it is so, then it is so and you have nothing to worry about.

    i wasn't getting defensive and i no what her reasons are for asking it.
    Well it seemed that way to me. And the fact that you are questioning whether or not I have read niffweed's paper or talk to him seems to further suggest that you are somehow trying to protect something. We would most likely agree more if you were to just back off, take a deep breath, and listen to (and not just read) what I am trying to say.
    Last edited by Logos; 02-14-2008 at 08:21 PM.
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    Niffweed, do you think if you knew liveandletlive longer than you have, or if you had been interacting with the others the second night longer than you did, and removed the offending subject matter, that you would have felt less uncomfortable? It might not be possible to answer. But I'm wondering because I think I read somewhere that dual interaction is supposed to calm someone down within a group as well. Sorry if that's a weird question.

    Also, I wanted to comment on the last part of what you wrote because I had trouble seeing that as SeFi. One example of how an SeFi has helped quell my feeings of insecurity regarding an Fi and Fe issue is by clarifying the Fi tie I felt to someone, and deemphasizing the need for concern with Fe for a social situation. There are some wedding proceedings that are going on right now with a person whom I have known a long time and which produce much anxiety and loss of sleep nights. Her reaction was to swiftly comment on the situation in terms of Fi ties, "youre not really friends, don't even care". and what i saw as her supporting me as her close friend (what I see as Se). She did not do this in a maudlin way yet I felt a genuine connection with her. I also felt less anxiety about attending the wedding proceedings because I felt more grounded Fi wise (where I stood with the relationship as well as doing the "right" thing to me). This example is not just meant for Niffweed but I thought I'd share.

    Also, this question is for Niffweed: did you find the interactions with Rick uninteresting because he wasn't interested in partying, or other social stuff? You don't have to answer that but I want to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post

    I'm not sure if I'm willing to type niffweed until he gets out of college and gets a career.

    is that some particularly anecdotal reference to me in particular? or would you be reticent to type anybody until they were out of college? if so, half of the people on this board are untypable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    niffweed, I can understand feeling socially inept, not understanding vibes, being sort of scared, but what essentially is stopping you from getting out there and living, to whatever extent you desire? is it just a continuation of a circumstance that you've become accustomed to?

    in part, probably. actually i would say definitely routine has something to do with it, but not entirely. idk; i'm just not really capable of being overly impulsive. it's something i associate with Ni and DS Se; i'm too analytical and observant to be able to actively involve myself in something a lot of the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Saying that it is the case does not make it so. And I am not saying here that you are wrong nor am I saying that niffweed is wrong, but [i[]merely[/i] that there are those who would like to decide for themselves as to whether or not it was truly the case. And when you open yourself up in writing, do not expect people to just say "All is quite correct and hunky dory" without first looking closer at what is written, what goes unwritten, and what is between the words. Just sit back and let the truth surface. If it is so, then it is so and you have nothing to worry about.

    Well it seemed that way to me. And the fact that you are questioning whether or not I have read niffweed's paper or talk to him seems to further suggest that you are somehow trying to protect something. We would most likely agree more if you were to just back off, take a deep breath, and listen to (and not just read) what I am trying to say.

    i have no reason to try to sway your opinions, but i think there's a lot of information in what i wrote that reflects a leading Ni perspective and i'm genuinely waiting for an explanation of why you or other people would see otherwise.

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    ESFps are fabulously wonderful!

    Thanks for sharing, niff! <3
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    is that some particularly anecdotal reference to me in particular? or would you be reticent to type anybody until they were out of college? if so, half of the people on this board are untypable.
    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    What does the evidence tell you?
    Oooohhh. Valid Point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    Niffweed, do you think if you knew liveandletlive longer than you have, or if you had been interacting with the others the second night longer than you did, and removed the offending subject matter, that you would have felt less uncomfortable? It might not be possible to answer. But I'm wondering because I think I read somewhere that dual interaction is supposed to calm someone down within a group as well. Sorry if that's a weird question.
    i don't know. maybe. probably. i can't really answer that, but probably what would have happened is that if i were closer with some of these people on a personal level, we would have already addressed some of the issues that came up which were discomfiting and i would have been less apprehensive about the whole thing.

    certainly if i had known danielle longer i would have been more comfortable around her in particular, but there was an absolute group dynamic there that sort of prevented any real one-on-one interaction from truly forming.

    Also, this question is for Niffweed: did you find the interactions with Rick uninteresting because he wasn't interested in partying, or other social stuff? You don't have to answer that but I want to know.
    not at all. the truth is that i find rick very affable as a person. being interested in partying is furthermore not at all what danielle displayed, although that might be slightly misleading as to her true motivations.

    what was irritating about rick was his constant focus on Si issues. for example, we moved from one restaurant to another because rick disliked the atmosphere of the first restaurant; the tables and chairs were green, red, and blue, and according to rick we had to leave because there were "too many primary colors." it was annoying how he kept caring about his surrounding environment. but it was tolerable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    What does the evidence tell you?
    i have no idea what you're talking about. if you're referring to your own interpretation of people's types, i don't have a damn clue. and frankly i don't care very much either, because i haven't seen much from you that suggests you truly care about socionics at all.

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    Damn, niff. That was the most candid and lucid account I've read. Your intellectual maturity is phenomenal, regardless of any other obstacles you've got in front of you. I swear I had you pegged being a college grad already!

    I'm also glad that you found some parts of your trip to be socially worthwhile and comfortable.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I've think my commentary on socionics has been substantive. While I make logical arguments here, you make a personal attack on my motivations.

    I think I care enough about socionics to meet with various members of this board on a on-going basis and continue to meet them on a on-going basis. I welcome forum members to come here and meet the fair folks of Hotlanta, GA and discuss this topic we are currently engaged in.

    I disagree with a fair number of posters here, that is true, but that is hardly a characteristic shared only by me. I will say that I find that which socionics is based on, the fruit of the flower so to speak to be more relevant in my understanding of the subject. I consider myself a student of the world, not of socionics. I have called myself a intellectual dilettante but I believe I am a rigorous dilettante.

    I happen to discuss this subject elsewhere, but of course you cannot have any knowledge of this and cannot put that into your perspective.
    all right.

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    I think perhaps the uncertainty expressed due to not knowing what to expect has a lot to do with leading... it's a need to know where things are going when they're largely out of your control... I think likes to look ahead and uses that to determine how to be or what to do in the moment... when what is ahead is very uncertain because there are too many "variables" out of the Ni-leading person's control, it can be unsettling. I am not quite sure how quells this.

    Anyway, I'm glad things went well. (-:

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    yeah, thanks niffweed, it was an insightful read and I am grateful for you deciding to share it with us.

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    Wow.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Wow.
    This is obviously something special since even SL went silent.

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    SEE magic!

    It takes a bigger pair than I've got to open up like that man.

    You need to win your fear of alcohol though.
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