Enneagram type 4, how it is more Si than Ni

[machintruc]

This discussion is not for misinformed retards. If you're just a socionic enthusiast that thinks something like "yippie yippie !!!! I'm INTJ-INTp-RCUEI-5w7w1 and my Kiersey type is RTRD !!!", just leave now.

means focusing on one's states of body. On the case of SEI's, it means focusing on one's subjective mechanics. This includes : senses, and physiology. When you are moody, you're likely to be a Sensing type. In fact, most 468's are Sensing.

is often used as some sort of cognitive defence against moodiness. In an unhealthy form, leads to hedonism, to lust, or to excess (this is not specific to Eights).

Fours often ask themselves : "what's wrong with me/others/the world ?". tells them "I feel bad because I don't fit the world". They may interpret consciously or subconsciously their bad feelings as "the world doesn't want me" or such. But actually, it's just physiology. Their serotonin level is low.

is a "realistic" element. Such Fours are very realistic about themselves and others. They are very straightforward, and will always tell the truth on what they/others are. In contrast of , which is a "non-realistic" element. makes someone focus on states of MIND, i.e. states that don't have physiological component, and that don't really can be proved. That contradicts the definition of Fours' authenticity.

Fours are individualistic by nature. According to description, they perceive themselves as "unique strangers" or such. This fits Reinin's Democracy. Then, more relevant to SEI than IEI.

Fours are narcissistic and egocentric, like Sixes or Eights. They have strong . They feel like they are strangers in an "hostile" world, then they're likely to use a lot (even if it may lack "drive") because they feel it's unevitable. Not necessarily by physical fighting (though they may like them), but by "defending" as if they were actually "attacked", by behaviours such as : extravagant dressing, conflict seeking, mistrusting others (testing them, like Eights), verbal swearing, numb sensation seeking, breaking laws and norms, inducing emotional pain to others, or such. Such behaviours are mostly relevant to .

types have verbal . They usually don't do -related things. types do. It's just like me when going

I don't think Fours can't be IEI or ILI, but that most Fours are SEI.

And don't tell me that I copied this thread pattern from Ezra, because I did it and I don't give a f*** of what you'll think, you bunch of retards. I hate retards.

I'm open to critiques, as long as they aren't retarded.

[marooned]

What is your source material on these enneagram types, Machintruc?

And while we're at it, what do people think of this article? Sadly it's focusing on MBTI and the enneagram... but anyway, when I looked at it I experienced a suspension of thought... as in I had no opinion about any of it.

[Phaedrus]

means focusing on one's states of body. On the case of SEI's, it means focusing on one's subjective mechanics. This includes : senses, and physiology. When you are moody, you're likely to be a Sensing type. In fact, most 468's are Sensing.

If moodiness is linked to type at all, it is not linked to being a Sensing type, that's for sure. NFs could be the most moody group of types, if we had to pick one -- and that is of course in line with the indisputable fact that every 4 is an N type.

is often used as some sort of cognitive defence against moodiness. In an unhealthy form, leads to hedonism, to lust, or to excess (this is not specific to Eights).

Yes, but when is used as a cognitive defense against moodiness it is always as a weak function, which again is in line with the indisputable fact that every 4 has an N function in the ego block.

Fours often ask themselves: "what's wrong with me/others/the world ?". tells them "I feel bad because I don't fit the world".

Another argument for the indisputable fact that every 4 is an N type.

is a "realistic" element. Such Fours are very realistic about themselves and others. They are very straightforward, and will always tell the truth on what they/others are. In contrast of , which is a "non-realistic" element. makes someone focus on states of MIND, i.e. states that don't have physiological component, and that don't really can be proved. That contradicts the definition of Fours' authenticity.

This seems to be an example of brain spin.

Fours are individualistic by nature. According to description, they perceive themselves as "unique strangers" or such. This fits Reinin's Democracy. Then, more relevant to SEI than IEI.

Irrelevant comment that reveals a misunderstanding of the Reinin dichotomies.

Fours are narcissistic and egocentric, like Sixes or Eights.

Sixes are definitely not narcissistic and egocentric. Your understanding of the Enneagram is so totally wrong that it becomes ridiculous. Are you really that brainwashed or are you just pretending to be? How can you misinterpret the type descriptions so badly?

I don't think Fours can't be IEI or ILI, but that most Fours are SEI.

It must be God that is testing you. How stupid can you be before you realize it?

And don't tell me that I copied this thread pattern from Ezra, because I did it and I don't give a f*** of what you'll think, you bunch of retards. I hate retards.

I don't hate people, but I hate lies and I hate stupidity in the form of unintelligent and uninformed people who are certain that they are right. You simply must take reason here. You are not allowed to be so wrong about things. Perhaps you need to be cursed by a priest or spanked by a nun.

I'm open to critiques, as long as they aren't retarded.

Good. Then you will listen to what I say and learn from it. Glad to hear that. (Otherwise I will talk to God and let Him curse you.)

[theMime.]

Mime, you don't have a family history of high blood pressure, do you?

Yeah I do actually, why?

[Mediator Kam]

If moodiness is linked to type at all, it is not linked to being a Sensing type, that's for sure. NFs could be the most moody group of types, if we had to pick one -- and that is of course in line with the indisputable fact that every 4 is an N type.

Yes, but when is used as a cognitive defense against moodiness it is always as a weak function, which again is in line with the indisputable fact that every 4 has an N function in the ego block.

I fail to see your logic. Start backing up your claims.

[theMime.]

Oh ok sorry lol it was actually a joke. See the original retarded picture post's edit, and you'll understand. :wink:

My first thought was that it was a joke.
But then I thought that maybe you were being serious so I gave a serious answer.

Uhm to be honest I don't really get the joke tho. Like it sounded like a joke but I didn't know exactly what the joke was...even after I went back and read all the other posts.

[Mediator Kam]

My first thought was that it was a joke.
But then I thought that maybe you were being serious so I gave a serious answer.

Uhm to be honest I don't really get the joke tho. Like it sounded like a joke but I didn't know exactly what the joke was...even after I went back and read all the other posts.

Your blood pressure raised like 100 zillion points when you saw dolphins' stunning mug. She was making a good will call to see if you were still alive.

[theMime.]

Yeah, what he said.

OHHHHH.
haha.
somehow I missed that.

[theMime.]

Another argument for the indisputable fact that every 4 is an N type.

hahaha.
Phaedrus stop telling me I don't exist.

*pinches self to make sure*
Ouch. yup I exist.

[Mediator Kam]

OMG I'm a four SEI guy. How rare and impossible I am!

I'm as common as a gay left-handed jew.

[Mediator Kam]

I hope you aren't saying that he is a left handed jew, because I was referring to a member of the new england legislature who once called himself that.

and tbh, I think I am a hell of a lot cooler than him. I overall rock.

[hellothere]

lol @ the ads on this page:

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[hellothere]

and proud of it.

[machintruc]

And while we're at it, what do people think of this article? Sadly it's focusing on MBTI and the enneagram... but anyway, when I looked at it I experienced a suspension of thought... as in I had no opinion about any of it.

This article is totally bogus.

[Ezra]

Faddruss = machantwyuke

[machintruc]

Such Fours include :

- Françoise Hardy
- Johnny Depp
- Orson Welles
- Valeria Golino
- Wendy (South Park)
- Goth subculture
- France, the country
- Taito, the videogame company

I'll do some list of ILI's later.

[machintruc]

Off topic...

machinetruc, you seem to like inventing rules... and you seem to be willing to bet on them..

I don't think I would have the same confidence in my rules.

I don't "invent" rules. I just find hidden rules in the external world.

[Expat]

is a "realistic" element. Such Fours are very realistic about themselves and others. They are very straightforward, and will always tell the truth on what they/others are. In contrast of , which is a "non-realistic" element. makes someone focus on states of MIND, i.e. states that don't have physiological component, and that don't really can be proved. That contradicts the definition of Fours' authenticity.

I don't see how that can be reconciled with, for instance, this bit from the 4 description of the Enneagram Institute website:

But, like everyone else, most Fours do not live at the peak of their potential. In response to anxiety, they turn inward, becoming self-conscious, particularly about the negativity they discover in themselves. To offset their negative feelings, they use their imaginations to make their lives more bearable. As a result, average Fours begin to withdraw from ordinary life. They become self-absorbed and do not learn how to relate to people or how to manage in the practical world. They feel like outsiders, somehow flawed and different from others, unable to break through the barrier of self-consciousness that separates them from easy commerce with the world.

It's not a self-serving selection, it's representative of the description.


Of from the enneagram page here: http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=31:31

Fours are primarily emotional by nature, and of all the types, probably have the most complex palette of emotional states. While Fours are not blind to the "facts" and the supposed "objective" state of affairs, they tend to interpret reality at least as much in terms of its symbolic content and emotional resonance. John Keats, a Four, expressed this well when he stated: “I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the heart’s affections and the truth of the imagination.” Fours are thus emotionally attuned to meaning, and this attention to meaning sometimes gives Fours access to a dimension of reality that others miss. Such insight might find expression in art, literature or music, but is often enough simply manifested in an idiosyncratic lifestyle which expresses the Four’s own personal vision.

Etc etc

How is that more than ?

[machintruc]

How is that more than ?

I was just trying to play devil's advocate.

[lefty]

thats nice of you to define what the forum is in some obscure thread. i know im motivated to learn by someone whose fucking rude then shoves theory down my throat. nice job. oh check out the signature is that...does that mean a teacher? hmmm...