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Thread: Fi leading to Fe

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    xerx's Avatar
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    .
    Last edited by xerx; 10-12-2008 at 08:02 PM.

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    great movie
    "Language is the Rubicon that divides man from beast."

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    ? All Bogart does is nod. Although I can see how the general concept of the gesture is related to Fi and Se.

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    Okay, so wait... I saw this movie but a long time ago... So essentially the first song is some sort of German song... and most the people there are not German and do not support the Nazi agenda. But they can't say it, and they have to put on an act that they're okay with what's happening out of fear or perhaps their best judgment... how they truly feel is buried in them, and they can't express it.

    Boggart's character sees this and he looks very troubled, sad, devastated inside... I agree that Fi had something to do with his decision to have them play the song that was (French?), and he used Se to make it happen. Because he ordered the people playing instruments/singing to change the song and because of the sheer confidence and sort of power he was able to pack into his order to make it happen, they complied. Also it's what they would rather do anyway... he gave them the courage to go forth and do it using his creative Se.

    This later brought out people's feelings... people started showing their feelings, crying, etc... expressing how they truly feel on the inside. They were able to unleash it, let it out, let it go. So in that sense, because their feelings were trapped inside before, beneath their careful facades, it was sort of like Fi... But Fi was kind of "converted" into Fe, via what Boggart's character did... and the Fe moved things, moved people's feelings, and in that moment, gave them back their power (so to speak).

    I'm trying to get at your perspective... is this accurate?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    Fi and Fe creatively intermingle to create that scene. Yeah, I guess you could say that Fi was in a sense converted to Fe. Under the "excuse" of Fe people take the opportunity to unleash their true feelings which they couldn't have otherwise. Fe tends to make actions look very legitimate.

    Oh, and I wasn't paying close enough attention to the video. It wasn't actually Bogart who gave the forceful command, as thehotelambush pointed out, but the Fi/Se in a general sense is present.
    Ah. I think I understand now.

    Do you see it as weak Fi that they didn't let their feelings be known before?

    Actually... I'll answer my own question (from my pov). I don't think it's weak Fi that they didn't do anything... but yes, they were sort of slaves to the Fe context presented by the Germans and the playing of German/Nazi-friendly music. The actions of whoever that was who got the orchestra to play something else changed the Fe context to one in which it was okay for the people to express their actual feelings. Since it was now okay/acceptable within this new Fe context to do that, people no longer felt inhibited. (After all, 'everyone else was doing it.' )

    Fwiw, if I was in that scenario I would just let the Germans keep playing as well though... I don't think it's because I have weak Fi... it's because I wouldn't want to get myself in trouble and would prefer to remain as invisible as possible. Since no one was being hurt, I'd be able to endure this. As someone once told me, and many people say, you have to pick and choose your battles. I wouldn't choose that battle, because I don't believe I'd be able to win it... and it's not dire enough for me to try to win it when I probably can't.

    But arguably, perhaps some one with strong Fi and Se would have a much harder time letting that slide.

    On second thought, I think my saying Fi was converted to Fe isn't a very good interpretation.
    Last edited by inumbra; 02-13-2008 at 12:07 AM. Reason: I changed my post like 20x! >:-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Okay, so wait... I saw this movie but a long time ago... So essentially the first song is some sort of German song... and most the people there are not German and do not support the Nazi agenda. But they can't say it, and they have to put on an act that they're okay with what's happening out of fear or perhaps their best judgment... how they truly feel is buried in them, and they can't express it.

    Boggart's character sees this and he looks very troubled, sad, devastated inside... I agree that Fi had something to do with his decision to have them play the song that was (French?), and he used Se to make it happen. Because he ordered the people playing instruments/singing to change the song and because of the sheer confidence and sort of power he was able to pack into his order to make it happen, they complied. Also it's what they would rather do anyway... he gave them the courage to go forth and do it using his creative Se.

    This later brought out people's feelings... people started showing their feelings, crying, etc... expressing how they truly feel on the inside. They were able to unleash it, let it out, let it go. So in that sense, because their feelings were trapped inside before, beneath their careful facades, it was sort of like Fi... But Fi was kind of "converted" into Fe, via what Boggart's character did... and the Fe moved things, moved people's feelings, and in that moment, gave them back their power (so to speak).

    I'm trying to get at your perspective... is this accurate?
    Somewhat. I see Se in the competition between the two songs for dominance and Fi in the cultural division that it represents. The expression and voice of the woman at :56 are rather strikingly FiSe. Although I see Bogart's character as more of an onlooker than anything else.

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