You VI like

[marooned]

When you (yes, you specifically, whoever you are) say in a post "you VI like..." or "s/he VIs like..." what is it that you mean precisely?

I have done no research whatsoever on this, but I suspect that there are different "schools" regarding VI within Socionics. This is partly irrelevant to my question though, because I get the impression that for a lot of people posting here, they're VI-ing based on their own personalized ideas of visual commonalities between types. I am wondering what *your* personalized ideas are - what are you personally going off of to recognize certain types or IM elements within images or videos?

I have posted in threads where VI is asked for. I do not know what I'm talking about when I do this for the most part. It is based on some loose (still forming) associations (mainly looking for hints of IM elements in a photo or video). It is largely inaccurate (when I do it). Not to mention, there is the question of whether there is all that much to VI anyway. (Do you think there's anything substantial to VI? What is your opinon/view?)

That said, some things do sometimes seem apparent. Ni can have a rather interesting look in the eyes it seems. This has nothing to do with people's physical characteristics (from my perspective) but more to do with external hints as to internal processes. N in general seems to appear as a sort of zero or inverse charisma in people sometimes... the person doesn't show much of a physical presence. They don't "pop out" at you... they don't draw your attention so easily... there's something in their eyes that is projecting inward and not outward. I don't know how to explain it and can't pin it down. But it seems to look somewhat different for Ni and Ne. [EDIT: By the way, the first vid posted in this thread by Hkkmr sort of shows what I mean by "inverse charisma." The IEI-looking guy in the video has like a negative physical presence.]

Just as a couple examples...

- When Scarlet posted her video where she showed what Ni, Fe, Se, and Ti "look like," when she did the "Ni" part... that was exactly it: the Ni look. That's what I'm talking about.

- The Ne look comes to mind in a picture Minde posted of when she was a child (go here - it seems most evident in her eyes in the last picture of when she was 6/7).

- The other IM element that seems to be rather apparent to me (sometimes) in images of others (perhaps more so than Ni or Ne) is Se, especially in SLEs.

- Another thing I noticed was Si-PoLR or Si-role fct. It was these images (originally posted by XoX I think) where it came to mind (particularly the first two):



What I noticed here is that she seems to experience leaving the water as a sort of "toil." It reminds me of how I feel sometimes. It's sort of like your mind is on the path of what will happen next, running through thoughts, looking ahead... but in the meantime you have to "get through" whatever physical thing you're doing (like leaving the water, or even being in the water). The experience of "toil" is not created by your physical experience... but by your natural focus *away from* your physical experience, as well as away from enjoying the moment. Again, I'm having a hard time trying to explain what I mean. (I rather wish the third picture weren't there. )

I especially love the second picture where she's tripping through the water... it's somewhat different from how I feel in that I think her Te might be affecting how she looks... in the first picture it's like she's ready to "take this task on" and be a trooper about getting through it (as though it's an exercise in efficiency). In the second picture it appears that it didn't quite work out for her, lol. Anyway, subtract that Te-ish EJ-ish look and it reminds me of how I feel at times. Hopefully I'm not off my rocker about this.

EDIT: Also that sort of thing seems to happen maybe a lot more frequently with intuition... your mind is elsewhere... not really paying attention to what you are physically doing... so then you get ahead of yourself and trip on something... that's when the external world calls you back and demands your attention/participation in it.

As another thought, I noticed that at this link you can "test your VI skills." I failed miserably at this. But I got the impression that it was going off of actual physical characteristics, like bone structure, or eye shape, etc. I don't *know* this for sure, but I highly suspect it. This is different of course than the method I was trying to employ, and I'm very hesitant to believe that superficial physical characteristics are type related. As an aside, I also noticed that socioniko.net seems to be "anti-VI."

So, anyway, those are quite a few of my thoughts on this. I wanted to know what VI is to you, and again, how you are going about it. Hope that made sense.

[Rubicon]

I can't believe you're seriously analyzing that last picture

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Hi Loki. Here is my view on VI:

One has to use what one has

The essence of this is experience..you have to encounter many many people to start building up a framework for a common reference. Ones ability to read people is very important. Some people are good at this, some people can get better at it, and some people do and will always suck at it.

Now here are some more 'general' views:

Ok..there are *some* things that VI socionists will claim, like for instance one eye being slightly bigger than the other eye means you are a dominant introverted function. Of course the other side of the coin to this is facial symmetry..which is certainly has a correlation with birth order. This method of typing even more subjective than the other ones, but still worth keeping in mind.

Another claim is body structure..that N types tend to be thin and S types tend to have either larger or more athletic builds. This kind of makes sense because generally N types are not as in touch with their physical sensations as much as S types, so N types may be more inclined to eat less because they are not as aware of their hunger, or they do not appreciate the taste of food so much as S, so an S could eat more. It is also more likely that an S would exercise and work out than an N because they are more tied in to their bodies and would more desire and appreciate the feeling of an optimal physique. Note I say may be, and generally, likely, -because they are not definites, but certainly indicators.

In short, even the top Russian socionists will be reluctant to give their conclusion on someones type by looking at a photograph, preferring they get to meet them in person.

Edit: I agree with Chopin. In the sense that the pictures mean very little, if anything.

[marooned]

I can't believe you're seriously analyzing that last picture

Can you suspend your disbelief?

Anyway, it's not really an analysis... it's more trying to say the thoughts that entered my mind initially right after I saw it the first time it was posted.

I'm only exploring this...

[aestrivex]

VI is basically bullshit.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

so you told me. I don't know if I'm ready to say that too though. maybe not yet...

it's fun to speculate regardless.

Sorry to interject, but if you thought it was bullshit, would you still speculate about it anyway?

[marooned]

Sorry to interject, but if you thought it was bullshit, would you still speculate about it anyway?

yes. If it's entertaining bullshit then sometimes it doesn't matter if it's bs or not.

[eunice]

VI is basically bullshit.

Not really. I believe that one's physical appearance, mannerism, body language and aura tell alot about that person eg. preference for extraversion/introversion, lifestyle etc.

[Exodus]

niffweed, I don't understand how you can still say VI is bullshit.

[UDP]

VI works best if you have some additional sense of a person and are also aware of what is going on in the photo.

Like recently, someone said a girl was ESE, when in reality she is most likely ISTp. They typed her as ESE because she happened to have a big smile on her face and was at a party with friends. The typing itself was not "unfounded" necessarily, but the person is definitely not ESE, regardless of that photo.

So knowing the photo, knowing a little about the person, and perhaps being able to have just a level, natural expression is important.

[aestrivex]

Not really. I believe that one's physical appearance, mannerism, body language and aura tell alot about that person eg. preference for extraversion/introversion, lifestyle etc.

youre a dumbass.

[aestrivex]

niffweed, I don't understand how you can still say VI is bullshit.

because it is?

[liveandletlive]

it's cuz he's bad at it

[aestrivex]

it's cuz he's bad at it

you got 1/11 on rick's pseudo-test. i got 2/11. you are therefore in absolutely no position to dismiss my VI abilities.


edit: i guess 1/10 if you throw away that SLE physical therapist person.

[Rubicon]

Another claim is body structure..that N types tend to be thin and S types tend to have either larger or more athletic builds. This kind of makes sense because generally N types are not as in touch with their physical sensations as much as S types, so N types may be more inclined to eat less because they are not as aware of their hunger, or they do not appreciate the taste of food so much as S, so an S could eat more. It is also more likely that an S would exercise and work out than an N because they are more tied in to their bodies and would more desire and appreciate the feeling of an optimal physique.

But because N types are not as aware of their hunger, they would also not be as aware of a feeling of satiety - leading to a tendency to overeat. Also, I think they're more inclined to eat for emotional reasons rather than for the immediate pleasure as we S's tend to do. I know what you wrote were only generalisations ... but anyway ...

[aestrivex]

But because N types are not as aware of their hunger, they would also not be as aware of a feeling of satiety - leading to a tendency to overeat. Also, I think they're more inclined to eat for emotional reasons rather than for the immediate pleasure as we S's tend to do. I know what you wrote were only generalisations ... but anyway ...

yes. thank you.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

But because N types are not as aware of their hunger, they would also not be as aware of a feeling of satiety - leading to a tendency to overeat.

If someone had a plate, and they were not enjoying it or did not feel hungry, why would they keep eating it? Why would they prepare a plate if they were not hungry in the first place?

Also, I think they're more inclined to eat for emotional reasons rather than for the immediate pleasure as we S's tend to do. I know what you wrote were only generalisations ... but anyway ...

Thats true.

[Minde]

If someone had a plate, and they were not enjoying it or did not feel hungry, why would they keep eating it? Why would they prepare a plate if they were not hungry in the first place?

Because staying alive requires regular consumption of sustenance. Or so I've been told.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

Because staying alive requires regular consumption of sustenance. Or so I've been told.

Skipping a meal or two here or there or not finishing one's tea isn't going to lead to death. I've never tried it personally It's just to the best of my knowledge.

[Rubicon]

If someone had a plate, and they were not enjoying it or did not feel hungry, why would they keep eating it? Why would they prepare a plate if they were not hungry in the first place?

Thats true.

Some S probably prepared it for them - and they keep on eating it, not knowing they are because their mind is elsewhere.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

"It's a shame to just let it go to waste."

[Minde]

Skipping a meal or two isn't here or there or not finishing one's tea isn't going to lead to death. I've never tried it personally It's just to the best of my knowledge.

I take it you've never gone all day forgetting to eat?

"It's a shame to just let it go to waste."

Yes, I've thought that a time or two.

[Creepy-Cyclops]

I take it you've never gone all day forgetting to eat?

You know, I don't believe I ever have.

[Exodus]

you got 1/11 on rick's pseudo-test. i got 2/11. you are therefore in absolutely no position to dismiss my VI abilities.


edit: i guess 1/10 if you throw away that SLE physical therapist person.

Ahem. In NYC I was pretty damn close on most of the pictures (i.e. at least identifying the leading function).

But because N types are not as aware of their hunger, they would also not be as aware of a feeling of satiety - leading to a tendency to overeat. Also, I think they're more inclined to eat for emotional reasons rather than for the immediate pleasure as we S's tend to do. I know what you wrote were only generalisations ... but anyway ...

^^Excellent point. This is too often unrecognized.

[Minde]

You know, I don't believe I ever have.

There are some interesting sensations that go along with such an experience, including a strange lack of hunger and a sharpening of other senses. But, anyway...

When I get to the end of the day and realize that I have had very little food, I generally think it's wisest to find something that has as much concentrated sustaining type stuff at once. Which can often mean eating something that's unpalatable.

Therefore, you have the perfectly understandable combination of not being hungry and not particularly liking what's on the plate.

[marooned]

If someone had a plate, and they were not enjoying it or did not feel hungry, why would they keep eating it? Why would they prepare a plate if they were not hungry in the first place?

That's the problem... they're not paying attention to whether or not they're enjoying it, and/or whether or not they're full. Also, certain foods supposedly tell you you're full at the wrong time - such things can be difficult to trust even if you are paying attention to them. And if you eat when you're extremely hungry (when it gets to the point that you can't ignore it any longer), then you tend to eat more... and you can't tell if you're full or not because all you know is that you're absolutely starving.

Anyway, I highly agree with what Chopin said as well. I mean, not eating the right amounts or at the right times... skipping meals (especially breakfast)... tends to slow the metabolism down and create problems that can cycle one into gaining weight and becoming increasingly unhealthy.

[aestrivex]

Ahem. In NYC I was pretty damn close on most of the pictures (i.e. at least identifying the leading function).

i don't remember. i can give you a quasi test if you like of some people i've typed.

[Minde]

...skipping meals (especially breakfast)... tends to slow the metabolism down and create problems that can cycle one into gaining weight and becoming increasingly unhealthy.

Or losing too much weight. That's been my problem the last few months, though I've been better recently now that I've noticed it's a problem.

[marooned]

Or losing too much weight. That's been my problem the last few months, though I've been better recently now that I've noticed it's a problem.

Yep. Either way.

[theMime.]

Uhm you guys are making me really hungry.
*scarfs down 4 burritos, some friench fries, half a pizza and an apple pie*

[munenori2]

I V.I like the day is long or the moon is beautiful.

[xyz]

That's the problem... they're not paying attention to whether or not they're enjoying it, and/or whether or not they're full. Also, certain foods supposedly tell you you're full at the wrong time - such things can be difficult to trust even if you are paying attention to them. And if you eat when you're extremely hungry (when it gets to the point that you can't ignore it any longer), then you tend to eat more... and you can't tell if you're full or not because all you know is that you're absolutely starving.

Anyway, I highly agree with what Chopin said as well. I mean, not eating the right amounts or at the right times... skipping meals (especially breakfast)... tends to slow the metabolism down and create problems that can cycle one into gaining weight and becoming increasingly unhealthy.

That's bullshit, I skip breakfast all the time (in fact, I havent had breakfast for about 4 months now) and i'm totally fine. My 'metabolism' has not 'slowed down'

[munenori2]

Breakfast is overrated. Though when my stomach starts growling in class, I'm somewhat embarrassed.

[Rubicon]

Uhm you guys are making me really hungry.
*scarfs down 4 burritos, some friench fries, half a pizza and an apple pie*

Aw Mime! You just completely blew my theory out of the water!

[theMime.]

Breakfast is overrated. Though when my stomach starts growling in class, I'm somewhat embarrassed.

haha
yeah me too!
that's funny you said that...that happened to me today in my psychology class...my stomach was SOOO LOUD.

[xyz]

I just see breakfast as commercialism trying to force it's way down my throat when I don't want it. "More meals" means "buying more food" which means "more dollars for poptarts"

[munenori2]

I love when it keeps going like on a timer (i.e. every minute and a half). Very self-conscious I become.

[theMime.]

Aw Mime! You just completely blew my theory out of the water!

they were just sooooo tasty I couldn't help myself.

hahaha.

actually I have the weirdest stomach in the world and if there really is an S/N difference when it comes to eating then I wouldn't count because my stomach is just completely retarded. Some days it doesn't matter how much I eat I never feel full and other days I just don't feel hungry at all.

[theMime.]

I love when it keeps going like on a timer (i.e. every minute and a half). Very self-conscious I become.

hahaha.

[xyz]

they're CRAZY good