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Thread: SEI-IEE Semi-Duality Relations (ISFp and ENFp)

  1. #41
    unefille's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron View Post
    I agree with this. I hate being put on the spot about my feelings. Really really hate it. I need to feel the freedom to express them the way I want to, or not at all. I don't think this is Si, I think it's Fe-creative.
    Or Fe generally. I find Fi/Te types talk more directly about feelings in a way that I am completely unable to -- honestly cannot get those words out of my mouth, without feeling as though I've just donned some giant clown mask. I can only talk about my 'feelings' sarcastically, angrily, or accusatively, never sincerely. Unless I'm crying or something. And then it's probably accusative.
    ()
    3w4-1w2-5w4 sx/sp

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    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    Interesting thread since I've been having a horrific time getting a certain Fe creative to explain her feelings to me. I suppose I've been doing it wrong by explaining my feelings and expecting her to do the same. Then again her actions are even more confusing.

    I feel like SEI emotions in general are still pretty clear. As with ESE they state what they want in a way that's easy for me to pick up on, but SEIs state it more by their actions, location, expressions, etc than verbally.

    I guess my main issue with feelings is that they constantly change and I don't see them as useful. In reality I see what people do as important, so I suppose SEI makes sense as my dual.

    How to actually motivate a dual into a relationship is still beyond me.
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    BP, your avatar !
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  4. #44
    Creepy-male

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    Even funnier is that I know an ESI with a photo JUST LIKE IT.

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    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2 View Post
    BP, your avatar !
    lol it was a fun trip

    Quote Originally Posted by Gulanzon View Post
    Even funnier is that I know an ESI with a photo JUST LIKE IT.
    Yah I'm secretly ESI.
    ILE-Ti
    6w7 sx/sp (low level of confidence)

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    How to actually motivate a dual into a relationship is still beyond me.
    Ditto.
    Greetings, ragnar
    ILI knowledge-seeker

  7. #47
    Creepy-male

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    Yah I'm secretly ESI.
    So you're your own dual and conflictor.

    Cuhrazy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    Who is this Australian whirlwind purporting to be ILE? ASL!?!?

    ASL -> "What .. people say on chats to learn who you are and where you live so they can come to your house with a chainsaw and kill you."

    Hmmm .... for those sorts of thrills i already got an ENTJ wife.
    ILE

  9. #49
    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola aka Bee's Avatar
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    ENTj........O_o

    Are you nuts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khola View Post
    ENTj........O_o

    Are you nuts?
    Yep ... was before i knew anything about this stuff ... lol. Used to be dumb enough to think i needed someone as smart as me .... yikes.

    Talking about this sort of stuff every once in a while is great ... and i definitely enjoy all the looneys at work .... you guys are the best ..... Still can't figure the question on this topic tho, outside of my experience, IMO must be something wrong if someone has to ask an SEI how they feel.

    Sorry about the ASL thing - seriously did't even know what it was. After "American Sign Language" THAT was the first valid definition i came to and it kinda left me stunned, pretty weird place the net.
    ILE

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    Default ENFp & ISFp... Constanly Fighty.

    Ok, so my bestfriend, who i happen to be having, certain relations with, (changes the dynamic) is a (Male) ISFp, and I'm a (Female) ENFp, we should get along great right? well we are CONSTANTLY bickering or fighting over something, mostly trivial, i mean, im a bit confrintational, but not anywhere near this much, i mean, its constant at this point, we always just get over it after a night of ignoring each other, but really, its ridiculous, would our type of personalitys be the reason were clashing, or just cause were annoyed with the newly develeoped 1500 miles inbetween us.
    Ariel: If only I could make him understand. I just don't see things the way he does. I just don't see how a world that makes such wonderful things could be bad.

    <3 ENFp (IEE) <3


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    Humanist Beautiful sky's Avatar
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    No, you're right. You should not get along well at all.

    According to this:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...lity-Relations

    http://www.socionics.com/rel/sdl.htm

    Cooperation between the pair is bad; loss of understanding makes the pair difficult to get along.
    -
    Dual type (as per tcaudilllg)
    Enneagram 5 (wings either 4 or 6)?


    I'm constantly looking to align the real with the ideal.I've been more oriented toward being overly idealistic by expecting the real to match the ideal. My thinking side is dominent. The result is that sometimes I can be overly impersonal or self-centered in my approach, not being understanding of others in the process and simply thinking "you should do this" or "everyone should follor this rule"..."regardless of how they feel or where they're coming from"which just isn't a good attitude to have. It is a way, though, to give oneself an artificial sense of self-justification. LSE

    Best description of functions:
    http://socionicsstudy.blogspot.com/2...functions.html

  13. #53
    Cerise Sauvage's Avatar
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    ._.' leave it to me.
    Ariel: If only I could make him understand. I just don't see things the way he does. I just don't see how a world that makes such wonderful things could be bad.

    <3 ENFp (IEE) <3


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    Snomunegot munenori2's Avatar
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    Pros and cons. Pros and cons.

    I don't pretend to understand either type, but imho SEIs mostly want things to be easy so if you're sparking things up to figure things out or see where you're at or whatever, he probably wouldn't respond well to it. If I were him I'd probably want to split up. If I were you I'd probably want to split up. And if you don't and I were him I'd be shrugging, wtf, all we do is fight, don't you want to be happy???

    Then I'd probably go and do stuff that makes me happy.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

  15. #55
    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    Newly developed 1500 miles between you? If this will be permanent or long term, then maybe it's time to let each other go. Resume the friendship, but end the 'certain relations with' part.

    Otherwise, you're not offering enough info for relevant advice, leaving a lot of .. Well, if it,s this then try that, if it's this other, then try that other, etc. please provide examples of what you two are bickering over.

    The SiFe's that I've known have been eager to please type of people. They've responded best when they feel valued and accepted. (most people respond well to that, but aren't as eager to please their partners) They have usually been quiet and mild-mannered.

    I've lived with my SiFe partner for 8years. It's not all gum drops and roses, but in this time we have had a total of three fights, earlier in our relationship, based on political disagreements and misunderstandings. We also don't communicate much. He gets his Ti fix from the internet. His social needs are met at work and 1-2 times a week gaming sessions with pals. I have learned that pushing him for details and stories of his day/life leads to a frustrated response from him having difficulty with that, as it's not his natural mode. So I stopped doing that early in the relationship. I get those needs met on the internet. But we are very close, constantly touchy-feely with each other, and consider ourselves lucky to have each other in our lives.

    I cannot imagine a long distance relationship working between us.

    Socionics isn,t the end-all-be-all authority on relationships. If you try treating it as such, you're at risk of treating people as stereotypes....rather than as the people they are.

    Try looking up the "five languages of love" and figure out which are his major two ways of feeling/showing love, and your own major two ways. If they don't match up, try putting effort into his ways of feeling loved, and start recognizing and accepting how he's showing love to you via his two ways. If you just can't compromise on this, it will never work out.

    Also look up the triangle theory of love: passion, intimacy, commitment. Look at where you two were before the 1500 miles, and where you two are now with the 1500 miles. Something will likely have lessened or be missing, find ways to get that filled. Be creative.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    escaping anndelise's Avatar
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    As for the theoretical applications, don,t bother looking at 'semi-dual' descriptions, instead, look at what model A says.
    For NeFi & SiFe, the dual seeking is being met by each partner (Ne/Si).
    The creative elements and demonstrative elements match work well together (Fi/Fe)
    So as long as those are how you two primarily interact, the relationship can be a workable loving one.
    The problems would come in when each seeks to fulfill their hidden agendas, as that would be hitting the polr of the other. Solution: get those needs met elsewhere, not from each other.
    Another problem might come in terms of role/ignoring functions. But that is a minor rolling of eyes effect rather than the more major issue of ha/polr.

    One problem with the 1500 mile distance is that you're no longer getting the Si dual-seeking met. You're having to meet it yourself, now. While it's far easier for him to get his Ne dual-seeking met on his own and/or through communications with you.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    i think you could probably pin down the main issues with this semi-duality dynamic by comparing it side-by-side with their respective duality dynamics

    both Ne-leads are curious individuals
    IEEs are interested in other people + their affairs, whether public or private [psychologist]
    ILEs are interested in themselves + their interests, which may or may not include other people [researcher]

    both Si-leads feel like "home"
    SLIs are enigmatic and they rarely, if ever, reveal their personal sentiments
    SEIs are congenial and they readily reveal their personal sentiments

    IEE satellites SLI and talks about other people, including the SLI in question (IEE's focus is SLI)
    ILE satellites SEI and talks about themselves + their interests (SEI's focus is ILE)

    initially IxE will regard SxI as "pleasant companions"
    eventually IEE will dismiss SEI as "shallow" and ILE will dismiss SLI as "boring"

    initially SxI will regard IxE as "interesting companions"
    eventually SEI will dismiss IEE as "nosy" and SLI will dismiss ILE as "autistic"

    IEE's Te HA + Ti PoLR will clash with SEI's Ti HA + Ti PoLR, which means that Ti + Te topics are off-limits
    ILE's Fe HA + Fi PoLR will clash with SLI's Fi HA + Fe PoLR, which means that Fi + Fe topics are off-limits
    (wrt romantic relationships) ILE won't feel loved and SLI won't be able to feel love since every declaration of love will be perceived as a PoLR hit
    Last edited by wasp; 07-31-2017 at 12:03 PM.

  18. #58
    both sides, now wacey's Avatar
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    ^ Strong post.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by paranoid View Post
    i think you could probably pin down the main issues with this semi-duality dynamic by comparing it side-by-side with their respective duality dynamics

    both Ne-leads are curious individuals
    IEEs are interested in other people + their affairs, whether public or private [psychologist]
    ILEs are interested in themselves + their interests, which may or may not include other people [researcher]

    both Si-leads feel like "home"
    SLIs are enigmatic and they rarely, if ever, reveal their personal sentiments
    SEIs are congenial and they readily reveal their personal sentiments

    IEE satellites SLI and talks about other people, including the SLI in question (IEE's focus is SLI)
    ILE satellites SEI and talks about themselves + their interests (SEI's focus is ILE)

    initially IxE will regard SxI as "pleasant companions"
    eventually IEE will dismiss SEI as "shallow" and ILE will dismiss SLI as "boring"

    initially SxI will regard IxE as "interesting companions"
    eventually SEI will dismiss IEE as "nosy" and SLI will dismiss ILE as "autistic"

    IEE's Te HA + Ti PoLR will clash with SEI's Ti HA + Ti PoLR, which means that Ti + Te topics are off-limits
    ILE's Fe HA + Fi PoLR will clash with SLI's Fi HA + Fe PoLR, which means that Fi + Fe topics are off-limits
    (wrt romantic relationships) ILE won't feel loved and SLI won't be able to feel love since every declaration of love will be perceived as a PoLR hit

    I don't think these roles are fixed. Guess they vary from relation to relation no matter the types.
    In my relationship I focus in my IEE and he talks about himself and his interests.
    In my friendship with ILE I speak about myself and my interests and he is more focused on me than the opposite.


    Initially they both don't see me as pleasant companion, its needed few time to dualize. ILE saw me as autistic and IEE as...idk, too different maybe.
    Duality and semi duality gets better with the time, but tend to start not so great.


    I don't think that my ILE friend thinks I'm boring, and he's not by any rate autistic either, we spend really good time together. He's talkative and witty, we laugh a lot and share a lot of our thoughts and perspectives.


    Truth is that I don't feel attraction to ILEs, but they are really good friends.
    On the other hand, IEEs can make me feel crazy for them (like they have pheromones or something).

    I think that comparatively, Semi duality relations provide more understanding (both thinkers, both feelers), but lacks of sparkles... while duality don't provide so much understanding but can be full of sparkles.

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    that's funny cause for me I would characterize things the same way but inverted since we're not both T or F. in other words EII/LIE feels to me like lots of sparkles but not a lot of real understanding, whereas ESI/LIE is often a slower burn but feels like there's real deep understanding

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    Spiritual Advisor Hope's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    that's funny cause for me I would characterize things the same way but inverted since we're not both T or F. in other words EII/LIE feels to me like lots of sparkles but not a lot of real understanding, whereas ESI/LIE is often a slower burn but feels like there's real deep understanding
    Well, in your case you have 2 feelers, lol.
    In my case the understanding comes from that ILE is Thinker and me too, so its more like intellectual understanding, but again there is not romantic chemistry I'd say. Not enough for making me move in a romantic direction at least.

    But don't get me wrong, I think that the differences with IEEs is really good since it makes us to keep balanced (more balanced than with ILEs, f.e.), and their capacity of providing a different perspective or point of view and that makes them a perfect compliment. With ILE we often agree, and since duality is a complementary relationship it works better for survival, or being more like a full system.

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    yeah I wish I could get things going but it always feels super inert with EII. I feel like they know I'm a piece of shit deep down and are repulsed by me or something like that. so we're sort of frozen in this push/pull between attraction and repulsion and it never goes anywhere

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    "The reason why the relationship falls short for an IEE in comparison to duality with an SLI), is that the SEI will on occasion try to influence the emotional state of the IEE by means of Fe (sometimes even for selfish purposes, not necessarily to improve the IEE's mood). Since the IEE creative function is Fi, they are in pretty strong control of their emotional states themselves and experience this SEI-Fe as intrusive. This causes fatigue in the IEE and a need to remove themselves from the SEI."

    the above quote by consenting adult, happened to me today, guy in cafe made eye contact with me etc, then had a laugh with waiter and then tried to bring that laughing energy as an entry point to communicating with me and though I wanted to talk to him I physically could not stop myself from pulling back so to speak, giving the wrong impression of course, only I felt influenced and I felt his conversation with the waiter was none of my business and that if he really wanted to talk to me he would just talk cold with no warm up. I know in my head it's his Fe but it's really hard not to create distance when someone comes towards me on those terms, ie trying to influence me/the atmosphere. Sigh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jewels View Post
    So I'm dating an ISFp (and the semi-dual this is great). However, he's not very comfortable opening up verbally at all. That's created some problems of me jumping to conclusions that his lack of verbally saying things/contacting me, means he doesn't care.

    He has told me he cares, and I believe he does. But I think he has an extra hard time expressing himself (even compared to other ISFps I've known who seem more extroverted).

    As we all know, ENFps can be sort of attention whores at times, or at least need some verbal reassurance/the occasional compliment. Do you ISFps, or other alphas, have ideas on how I could get him to feel more comfortable sharing feelings? At times he does, but it is kind of rare. Like, he's complimented me two or three times in about 3 months. I can tell he's trying, and has started calling more after I said that was important to me, but he hates the phone.

    Any suggestions on how I could help him feel more comfortable, or something I could do that would make him feel he could open up? He has opened up to me sometimes, but it's kind of rare.

    Thanks for your input!
    Hi, I'm IEE-Fi I had a 1&half year relationship with a SEI girl. I never found the solution to your problem. Everytime I tried to get her to tell me what she was expecting, what she felt, especially to telle me when I was blunt and I hurt her involuntarily. The more I tried the more she closed herself like a clame behind a shell of fake smiles and caresses. I think this is exactly the example of Fi conflicting with her Fe.
    Then at some point she was trying to manipulate me into feeling the way she wanted me to but that was painfully annoying for me.

    Sorry and good luck

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    It’s strange to think about this relationship. I mean both types are equally annoying to me … cute, but annoying lol So I guess they would annoy the shit out of each others.

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