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Thread: ISTp-ENFp duality and implicit perception of emotional needs

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    ESE.. IEE.. I guess it'd be hard to tell over text either way. I need a personal interview! Tinychat broadcast intervention!
    Aww, I wanna be there..not for typing, just for curiosity's sake. Lemme know when your intervention happens.
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Big congrats on your recent wedding!!
    Thank you! : )

    I've tried every way I can to analyze myself and my husband, and he continues to dodge. He even broke the Cube Test, of all things.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    and stereotypically dont know what to do with their hair.
    Which is why I had a professional stylist do mine for me : )
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    I know you didn't mean as strictly as written, but I did want to clarify a bit...

    We don't know how often she dressed to the nines, nor what kinds of problems, if any, which dressing up may have led to during the process, nor even what she considers 'to the Nine'. There's nothing in socionics that says that NeFi won't nor can't dress up once in a while, doing makeup, doing hair, wearing a nice dress, wearing some heels for a while. The heels might come off rather quickly, but they're only needed for that brief entrance, heh. Some form fitting dresses can even be made from comfy material. But even if not, it's a temporary thing, usually of a social nature, especially when having an interest in someone's opinion. NeFi do have Se role and demonstrative Fe.

    There is also nothing about NeFi that suggests that they wouldn't be aware of turning heads. Again, 4D Fe. Now, in my younger years I would dress up once in a while to go dancing, and I did turn heads. i usually would quickly check to make sure my skirt was down, my top wasn't too far down, and there was no TP caught on my heels. And I might have worried about my makeup and the change of lighting and been horrified at the resulting image. However, I'm not a particularly confident person, and was even less so back then. Applejacks strikes me as more confident of herself, but nothing that was quoted necessarily means Not NeFi.

    Perhaps you have other reasons for questioning her type. I would just be hesitant about doing so based on the quoted material.
    Fair enough...

    I guess i just didn't relate much to that piece i quoted. But maybe i'm just a homely IEE with zero time and no Si-egos in my life.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise View Post
    Aww, I wanna be there..not for typing, just for curiosity's sake. Lemme know when your intervention happens.
    YES! Intervention! Let's do this!

    What day? What time?
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    Park loves that I carry such enthusiasm for things in which I have little understanding : )
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    But can you really go so far as to say that an IEE can't wear perfume or a dress? Truth be told, I try my hardest to make my outfits match or look decent, but they never seem to gel. Nor do my socks EVER match. But it's not all that hard to pick a dress. When you start adding additional items, it gets a little complicated for me. That, and I'm usually unkempt and happy about it, until my self-esteem starts to suffer, and I realize I need to step up my game.

    ESE.. IEE.. I guess it'd be hard to tell over text either way. I need a personal interview! Tinychat broadcast intervention!
    well speaking for myself...
    I've tried wearing perfume in the past but i just dont trust my ability to make sure it's applied well and/or i get sick of the smell, etc. Also most of the time i am too distracted and scattered to remember to put it on...

    And no my comment was not intended to imply IEE's dont wear dresses. I wear a lot of dresses myself. it's just hard for me to dress sharply compared to others who REALLY dress sharply. In part because i value comfort too much, in part because i just dont think in the way that some of my friends do in terms of putting together outfits. i just dont think of dressing that way, i dont think about putting together outfits. But maybe that's just me... Also even if i put on heels and a tight fitting dress, i end up looking clumsy no matter how you look at it and every time i look in the mirror or see myself in a photo, something is off place and/or sitting the wrong way. But again, maybe that's just me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    Fair enough...

    I guess i just didn't relate much to that piece i quoted. But maybe i'm just a homely IEE with zero time and no Si-egos in my life.
    To be completely honest with you, I didn't start paying attention to my clothing, hair, or anything until age 25 / 26. My best friend was an ESFJ (MBTI - not sure of her socionics) who started vocally judging me when I tried to leave the house in jeans, a bright pink plaid shirt, sneakers, and a ponytail. It turned into a "fake it, til you make it" type ordeal, and even still, I'll go to a store and try to pick out something snazzy, and will end up looking a hot mess. But I at least try now!
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    I mostly wear a shirt and a pair of pants, and just keep it simple. If I try and do something fun but pieced together, it just doesn't seem to look polished, no matter what I do.

    Example:




    More often than not, I just wing it and try to carry on with as much confidence as I can about it.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    IEE hozing itt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I was actually thinking similarly. For example:



    That does not seem IEE-ish at all. IEE dont understand perfume, and stereotypically dont know what to do with their hair. Also high heels are the epitome of uncomfortable, and i dont think an IEE would be one to trade comfort for being dressed to kill.

    I dont know about strictly calling you ESE, but I would peg you as someone fairly competent with Se and Si. And also extravert. So consider SEE, ESE, SLE, LSE.

    If you see Ne in a positive light, you may VALUE Ne, in which case you might be ESE or LSE. But Ne egos tend to have trouble with looking sharp, even when they want to. They also tend to not be aware of people's heads turning.

    oh and yeah @Daft21, ime EIIs and LIIs are the HORRIBLE health nuts. the Si-HA's go wayyy overboard with the hypochondria and reaction to it... Si egos tend to automatically take care of their health without a big to-do about it, especially SLIs who are Mr. & Ms. Practicals (LSEs too for that matter). LSEs though tend to overdo the workaholism, imo.

    Oh Shut up. This was the stupidest post I've read all day and it's kind of rude. (granted this post is more rude), but whatever. I like her and if she says she's IEE, then she's IEE. How someone gets dressed up or lack thereof IS NOT TYPE RELATED.


    *edit* so after I wrote this..I then scrolled down and saw other people had also said not type related and you wrote a post stating that maybe it wasn't as well. so. I feel better about it. but still..those kinds of pushy blanket comments annoy me to no end. Sorry for being a butthead.
    Last edited by blackburry; 06-25-2013 at 05:32 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    How someone gets dressed up or lack thereof IS NOT TYPE RELATED.
    But it is. Very much so, though sure there are deviations.
    The difference is more often than not quite striking between Si and Se valuing types. I can't always put my finger on it, but it's there.

    I'm with @WorkaholicsAnon on this. (I revel in good perfume, though. Conflicted about high heels - don't wear them but they may actually do some good for my spine so it is subject to change.)

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon
    ime EIIs and LIIs are the HORRIBLE health nuts. the Si-HA's go wayyy overboard with the hypochondria and reaction to it...
    True.
    I call myself batyote and I fight crime at night.

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    I generally dislike going with the general consensus but i have to agree re:NTR business. I can absolutely see an IEE involving the help of others to look 'polished' in a conventional way because you think it will make someone happy... i'd definately do that. I once had professional make-up for a birthday... ok so it was a present from an ESFJ friend but i really enjoyed it, (it was tedious) but interesting. I think i have had some 'killer' outfits... maybe not standard fashion, or trendy but my own style and i have felt that others have interpreted it so.
    Things like a little house on the prarie dress with dm's and red lipstick...well anyway, in my younger years.

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I like her and if she says she's IEE, then she's IEE.
    Look there are two kind of people in this forum the ones who get pissed when you question their type and the ones who like advice in that. I count myself to the later. Applejacks is obviously still looking for her type.
    You see it as a friendly gesture not to question someones type but it doesn't make sense to trust someones self typing more when you like the person...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dolphin View Post
    You are very attractive! With this particular outfit, my suggestion would be to go a bit simpler. You've got a lot of colors/textures going on here. Try picking one article of clothing or one particular accessory, emphasize that, and keep the rest simple/minimal/in the background. The puffed sleeves of your sweater and the flowy-ness of the blue shirt are very similar and are sort of competing with each other. In fact most of the items in your outfit seem to be competing with each other and it is hard for the eye to rest. Each of these items of clothing are so unique they could lead an outfit in itself. For example you could wear a simple black dress and the belt would be the highlight. You could do the white sweater and the black cami if the black is minimal. You could make the blue the focus of your outfit and keep the rest minimal. Or you could make your earrings the focus and dress in colors that match/harmonize with them.
    Oh believe me. All your advice is appreciated, but no matter how hard I try, I just don't have a knack for it. So, I usually just stick to one shirt, one pair of pants, earrings. Or I enlist my ESFJ friend, who then puts me in something very uncomfortable, and which I promptly take off.

    EDIT: Or I rob a mannequin.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Oh hummm... am now remembering the disagreement i had with the make up artist re: lipstick, she said my eyes were the feature and i could only have one feature and i should have nude lispstick... ewks! Nude lipstick just looks bizarre to me... almost antiflesh.. so i asked for pinky lipstick... she was not impressed but eventually could see that i would not budge on it and begrudgingly applied it.... i have picture... (me on right)

    Attachment 2092

    This was me polished by others (though i did chose the outfit myself)

    Now this is a story all about how, my type got changed, turned upside down. Just wait for a minute and watch chatbox right there, & I'll tell how Gem became the moderator with blue hair.

    In typology central friended and praised, on the picture thread was where she spent most her days. Chilling out, selfies, relaxing all cool, And all typing some people and getting them schooled.

    When a couple of girls who were up to no good, Started annoying her & her friends in the forumhood, She got in one little flame war & got pissed off & said 'I'm moving in with that exboyfriend in the forum with the socionics toffs.

    So Gem pulls up to the forum for a year without being a hater, And yells to typocentral 'Yo creeps! Smell Ya later', Became a mod in her kingdom she was finally there, To sit on her throne as the mod with blue hair.

    InvisibruJim

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminatronix View Post
    Oh hummm... am now remembering the disagreement i had with the make up artist re: lipstick, she said my eyes were the feature and i could only have one feature and i should have nude lispstick... ewks! Nude lipstick just looks bizarre to me... almost antiflesh.. so i asked for pinky lipstick... she was not impressed but eventually could see that i would not budge on it and begrudgingly applied it.... i have picture... (me on right)

    Attachment 2092

    This was me polished by others (though i did chose the outfit myself)
    Look at you, sexy thang! I personally love the lipstick : ) It's addicting though, isn't it?
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daft21 View Post
    Look there are two kind of people in this forum the ones who get pissed when you question their type and the ones who like advice in that. I count myself to the later. Applejacks is obviously still looking for her type.
    You see it as a friendly gesture not to question someones type but it doesn't make sense to trust someones self typing more when you like the person...
    I see how you came to your conclusion, but it's not that her type was questioned that pissed me off ( really what benefit or care would I get from someone else's typing) it was how WA worded it, the way she does often which is as a stated in my post, a pushy generalized blanket statement: she likes to give her opinions and word them as if she knows someone's exact motive, and usually comes off as if she pretends to know someone more than they know themselves. That, sir, it what annoys me.

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    If it is type related.. Then I learned something new today?
    ......!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Geminatronix View Post
    Oh hummm... am now remembering the disagreement i had with the make up artist re: lipstick, she said my eyes were the feature and i could only have one feature and i should have nude lispstick... ewks! Nude lipstick just looks bizarre to me... almost antiflesh.. so i asked for pinky lipstick... she was not impressed but eventually could see that i would not budge on it and begrudgingly applied it.... i have picture... (me on right)

    Attachment 2092

    This was me polished by others (though i did chose the outfit myself)
    Very hot

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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    I mostly wear a shirt and a pair of pants, and just keep it simple. If I try and do something fun but pieced together, it just doesn't seem to look polished, no matter what I do.

    Example:




    More often than not, I just wing it and try to carry on with as much confidence as I can about it.
    IEE no doubt...
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    Oh Shut up. This was the stupidest post I've read all day and it's kind of rude. (granted this post is more rude), but whatever. I like her and if she says she's IEE, then she's IEE. How someone gets dressed up or lack thereof IS NOT TYPE RELATED.
    I'm entitled to my gut feeling and my opinion. And I'm allowed to express it. I wasn't the only one who cast some doubt on the self-typing. IMO it's stupid to not question each other, especially when thought process is explained so that it can be discussed. How else will growth occur? Anyway, unlike you, at least 3 people found my post constructive.


    *edit* so after I wrote this..I then scrolled down and saw other people had also said not type related and you wrote a post stating that maybe it wasn't as well. so. I feel better about it. but still..those kinds of pushy blanket comments annoy me to no end. Sorry for being a butthead.
    ok.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daft21 View Post
    Look there are two kind of people in this forum the ones who get pissed when you question their type and the ones who like advice in that. I count myself to the later. Applejacks is obviously still looking for her type.
    You see it as a friendly gesture not to question someones type but it doesn't make sense to trust someones self typing more when you like the person...
    exactly.

    And hey sorry everyone, sometimes i'm a little moody, especially when i'm dead tired and exhausted from work like i have been lately.
    Please dont take it personally.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackburry View Post
    I see how you came to your conclusion, but it's not that her type was questioned that pissed me off ( really what benefit or care would I get from someone else's typing) it was how WA worded it, the way she does often which is as a stated in my post, a pushy generalized blanket statement: she likes to give her opinions and word them as if she knows someone's exact motive, and usually comes off as if she pretends to know someone more than they know themselves. That, sir, it what annoys me.
    why is it that you seem to frequently have a problem with the way i word things? When such is the case I think the problem rests more with you, in terms of how you are perceiving what i say. Sucks for you to be walking around pissed off every time i say something. Life is hard for people when they are always pissed off about every little thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AbsurdEnough View Post
    I actually agree with the IEEs who said that the way someone dresses is type-related. The better question is, why WOULDN'T it be?

    *edit* And nearly every type-description on socionics.com includes a description of how someone dresses. I agree with @WorkaholicsAnon.

    Obviously dress isn't completely indicative of one type or another, and socionics.com isn't necessarily the best source; but in general, if dress is the product of a person's thoughts, and part of their expressions of how they view themselves, how can you really argue that it's NOT type related? I'm not sure I understand this line of thinking.



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    Quote Originally Posted by AbsurdEnough View Post
    I actually am developing a theory, that since being able to understand multiple perspectives is so key to happiness, and Gamma SFs have naturally weak Ne, and that they often try to resolve things through physical force, they are at a huge disadvantage in today's society and often end up frustrated & unhappy. And also, with weak Ti, they may feel challenged when trying to express themselves, so oftentimes they'll keep to themselves unfortunately until their anger builds up too much and they lash out.

    And yet, that being said, Gamma SFs have actually taught me the most, in general, for improving my people skills - and yet they've rarely told me it directly, if they're unable to articulate it well. Oftentimes I'll look and examine the reason for their outburst, understand what it was that bothered them in the first place, and think about what I could do to improve that might make me more agreeable and likable in the future.

    In this case, blackburry expressed frustration that you 'pretend to know someone more than they know themselves' and 'as if you know someone's exact motive'. Perhaps you're coming across arrogantly? Perhaps you could be more polite in expressing your opinions?

    I don't know the history of your interaction with blackburry to honestly say whether it's any fault on yours or hers, or if there's any fault in general for the misunderstanding at all.

    My response was triggered by how you responded to blackburry - I'd suggest not to expect a clear response from blackburry explaining the underlying reasons for her feelings, but to just consider her feelings and opinion just as valid as yours or anyone else's. Just because someone might not be able to explain their feelings well, doesn't mean that their opinion is any less valid or that they are any less of a human being.

    That said, carry on.
    I think that is all very well said.

    I'll go ahead and chalk it up to a supervisor-supervisee misunderstanding. It's not the first time that's happened.

    How someone comes across to another is often a matter of perspective, which is what socionics is all about.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkaholicsAnon View Post
    I think that is all very well said.

    I'll go ahead and chalk it up to a supervisor-supervisee misunderstanding. It's not the first time that's happened.

    How someone comes across to another is often a matter of perspective, which is what socionics is all about.

    LOL...UGHhhhhhh.




    whatever. let's just chalk it up to that something about your posts irk me and I've already stated why. so let's just forget about it at this point. you just don't get it. so. k.

  29. #109
    The Quiet Individualist Waster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    Malkavian?

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    Quote Originally Posted by StridingStrider View Post
    Malkavian?
    I don't know what this, but the internet tells me that it relates to vampires. Or cults.

    I promise, I don't bite people for survival.

    I can't make any promises about the cults, though... considering my socionics thread addiction, clearly.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    I don't know what this, but the internet tells me that it relates to vampires. Or cults.

    I promise, I don't bite people for survival.

    I can't make any promises about the cults, though... considering my socionics thread addiction, clearly.
    Vampires cursed with insanity. This manifests into their strange sense of fashion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StridingStrider View Post
    Vampires cursed with insanity. This manifests into their strange sense of fashion.
    Oh. Well in that case...

    vampire: no

    insanity: 1) I'm IEE, and 2) you're my dual. You figure it out

    As for fashion... I realize I'm hopeless, but try to distract with fun and conversation.











    LOOK, a Batman Moonbounce! "KAPOW!"





    EDIT: After thinking about this moonbounce, I'd be disappointed if there wasn't some sort of blow-up Joker villian in there to punch.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by applejacks View Post
    I mostly wear a shirt and a pair of pants, and just keep it simple. If I try and do something fun but pieced together, it just doesn't seem to look polished, no matter what I do.



    More often than not, I just wing it and try to carry on with as much confidence as I can about it.

    This has been somewhat of a frustration for me, at least when I was younger. It's fun to dress and glamor up, but I never reach the stage where I feel polished and I am always certain that it will all fall apart within
    an hour. I always feel the need to ask someone "does this look ok"? I think that's why I like somewhat dramatic little things (big necklace or bold color or funky shoes or, fairly rarely these day, bold make-up) - they make me feel as if I am stepping out of the "polished" conventions and can be a bit more me (less pressure). I don't know.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim View Post
    I think that's why I like somewhat dramatic little things (big necklace or bold color or funky shoes or, fairly rarely these day, bold make-up) - they make me feel as if I am stepping out of the "polished" conventions and can be a bit more me (less pressure). I don't know.
    YES! I have a few bold pieces that I've collected that I'll pull out with the hopes of having something that "pops" (and distracts from my lack of polish).

    Honestly, if I'm feeling exceptionally happy and can connect with a clothing store clerk, I'll straight out ask them for help in picking outfits for me.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    I'll help you pick your outfits applejacks, if you help me pick my girlfriends.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    I'll help you pick your outfits applejacks, if you help me pick my girlfriends.
    No fair...you'd just have her keep removing clothing until it was "just right".
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    I have delicate tastes, it's true.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Park View Post
    I'll help you pick your outfits applejacks, if you help me pick my girlfriends.
    I'm sorry, did you say something? I was thinking about the Batman Moonbounce again.
    And if God cares so wonderfully for flowers that are here today and gone tomorrow, won't he more surely care for you?- Matthew 6:30

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    IEE = SLI sex toy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker View Post
    Have you ever seen the Neil Simon play "Plaza Suite"? In the third part of that, there's this bride freaking out worried about getting married who locks herself in the bathroom. And her parents are freaking out about her being locked in the bathroom while the guests are arriving. This goes on for ages, with her parents getting more and more upset and getting nowhere with her. So finally, the groom comes up, and they begrudgingly tell him what the problem is - that she's anxious and crying, and she's locked herself in the bathroom and won't come out. He shows no emotion, walks over to the bathroom door, pounds on it and says "cool it". And that's all she needed - she comes out of the bathroom ready to get married. The anxiety of her parents wasn't helping her anxiety. She needed someone without all that extra emotion to relax her.

    That is the best thing about ISTps.
    Absolutely. Nothing like an entirely calm "chill out babe" to snap me out of neurotic hysteria.

    Edit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MuBwxePS-s0

    <3
    Last edited by Kim; 09-12-2013 at 01:58 AM.
    “Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage.”
    ― Anais Nin

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