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Thread: working out: Si or Se?

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    Default working out: Si or Se?

    I think most of us have related working out to Si because it's related to health, but having thought about this a bit more, I'm beginning to think it's more related to Se.

    Let's define "working out" so we can make sure we're all talking about the same thing.

    Working out: Engaging in physical activities specifically designed to strengthen, tone, improve health or appearance, extend lifespan, increase quality of living, etc. Activities that are done for any other reason (such as taking part in a hobby one enjoys, working, competing, dancing, commuting, etc.) do not count as working out for the purposes of this discussion, even if the results are the same.

    Examples of working out include lifting weights, using cardio machines, doing calisthenics (jumping jacks, push ups, etc.), and so on. Stretching may or may not count, depending on the reason one is stretching. The idea is that the sole purpose of working out is to, like I said, strengthen, tone, improve health or appearance, extend lifespan, increase quality of living, etc. Whether or not someone enjoys it is irrelevant.
    • Se dominants do tend to somewhat frequently do things that qualify as working out (as defined above), but they also seem to enjoy them. Running seems to be popular among the Se dominants that I know.
    • Se creative types seem to have an easier time maintaining a work out regimen than any other type. It appears to come quite naturally to them.
    • Se Role types seems to feel like working out is something they should probably discipline themselves to do, whether they actually do it or not.
    • Se PoLR types... you know, I was married to one and have a sister who is one and I don't think I've ever seen either of them work out. My sister used to run, but it was only because she was in the military. She was always rather sporadic about it though, and now only runs a few times a year as far as I know. Does anyone here know any Se PoLR types who work out (as defined above)? From what I've seen they seem to hold an appreciation for being active sometimes, but actually working out is something that they don't see any reason they should have to do.
    • Se dual seeking types enjoy working out if there's someone there to motivate them. They're unlikely to regularly work out on their own though.
    • Se hidden agenda types like the idea of working out regularly and probably go through periods where they attempt to do so, but are unable to maintain a work out regimen on their own for any period of time. It is next to impossible for them to do it on a long term, consistent basis without help from anyone else. And they may overdo it.
    • Se ignoring types seem rather unlikely to work out (as defined above), at least based on my understanding of those types and the people I've known of those types.
    • Se concrete art types seem to be the most likely to work out of all of the Si valuing types, as far as I've seen. They're more likely though to do things that keep them active than they are to work out (as defined above). I know one who very occasionally goes to a gym, but generally based on whether or not he felt like it, I think. I know one who stretches regularly, but it's for physical therapy from an accident. He didn't work out at all until he pretty much had to, as far as I know.
    According to model A, this theory appears to make sense. Also, Se types are static. The idea of working out is that it takes a person from one state to another. The focus isn't on the experience of performing the activity itself, as it would be from a Si perspective.
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    I won't say Si or Se = working out, because I think that's a bit stupid. But this is my take on Si and working out:

    After working out you feel good (if you do it long enough), you feel more lively and active, you can do more, you sleep better and sometimes you eat better. Your quailty life is better.

    Working out makes you look good, more people of the desired sexual pursuasion want to sleep with you, you don't look weird (looking the mirror isn't such a bad experience).

    Working out makes you feel strong (and of course makes you stronger) which is sort of a extension of your personal power (personal power feels good) which you can show off whenever nessary (same with fitness).

    The actual activity of working out can be seen as fun and enjoyable even if it's difficult. I personally find hobbies or extra activities which I think are easy hard to focus on, I even like to think things are hard so I concentrate more. It gives you something to focus on. Focus and concentration is better than the opposite and the opposite is not enjoyable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    I think most of us have related working out to Si because it's related to health, but having thought about this a bit more, I'm beginning to think it's more related to Se.

    Let's define "working out" so we can make sure we're all talking about the same thing.

    Working out: Engaging in physical activities specifically designed to strengthen, tone, improve health or appearance, extend lifespan, increase quality of living, etc. Activities that are done for any other reason (such as taking part in a hobby one enjoys, working, competing, dancing, commuting, etc.) do not count as working out for the purposes of this discussion, even if the results are the same.

    Examples of working out include lifting weights, using cardio machines, doing calisthenics (jumping jacks, push ups, etc.), and so on. Stretching may or may not count, depending on the reason one is stretching. The idea is that the sole purpose of working out is to, like I said, strengthen, tone, improve health or appearance, extend lifespan, increase quality of living, etc. Whether or not someone enjoys it is irrelevant.
    • Se dominants do tend to somewhat frequently do things that qualify as working out (as defined above), but they also seem to enjoy them. Running seems to be popular among the Se dominants that I know.
    • Se creative types seem to have an easier time maintaining a work out regimen than any other type. It appears to come quite naturally to them.
    • Se Role types seems to feel like working out is something they should probably discipline themselves to do, whether they actually do it or not.
    • Se PoLR types... you know, I was married to one and have a sister who is one and I don't think I've ever seen either of them work out. My sister used to run, but it was only because she was in the military. She was always rather sporadic about it though, and now only runs a few times a year as far as I know. Does anyone here know any Se PoLR types who work out (as defined above)? From what I've seen they seem to hold an appreciation for being active sometimes, but actually working out is something that they don't see any reason they should have to do.
    • Se dual seeking types enjoy working out if there's someone there to motivate them. They're unlikely to regularly work out on their own though.
    • Se hidden agenda types like the idea of working out regularly and probably go through periods where they attempt to do so, but are unable to maintain a work out regimen on their own for any period of time. It is next to impossible for them to do it on a long term, consistent basis without help from anyone else. And they may overdo it.
    • Se ignoring types seem rather unlikely to work out (as defined above), at least based on my understanding of those types and the people I've known of those types.
    • Se concrete art types seem to be the most likely to work out of all of the Si valuing types, as far as I've seen. They're more likely though to do things that keep them active than they are to work out (as defined above). I know one who very occasionally goes to a gym, but generally based on whether or not he felt like it, I think. I know one who stretches regularly, but it's for physical therapy from an accident. He didn't work out at all until he pretty much had to, as far as I know.
    According to model A, this theory appears to make sense. Also, Se types are static. The idea of working out is that it takes a person from one state to another. The focus isn't on the experience of performing the activity itself, as it would be from a Si perspective.
    This seems pretty accurate from my understanding.

    My own attempt at describing working out as Se/Si:
    One of the reasons I don't work out is just because it seems boring and like a pain to do it. But, I don't think it's impossible for it to be Si. It depends on the intentions - if it would be working out just for its own sake, for the challenge and to improve one's strength I'm guessing it's use of Se. If it were to work out so as to fight depression or to feel better about oneself or to be healthier otherwise, it seems more Si.

    Personally I prefer exercising while playing fun games (which strikes me as more Si than Se), like ultimate frisbee or ping-pong. Swimming is good too. I've thought about working out but I never really have the motivation to stick with it.
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    I have been aware of I think when I have tried to work out. It's this feeling of toil and it's very unpleasant and I don't like it at all. If you can endure it and get through it, in the end, yes, it will be beneficial in that it will reorder some things inside and balance them better. I think it makes you focus on .

    Physical awareness is and . is how it actually feels, the feeling of physical awareness. is detached from such feelings. The activity of physical exercise probably involves a lot of ... your experience of it probably involves a lot of .

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    My initial thought is that it depends on the type of workout and the reason for doing it.

    If your being competitive that can be a little more Se. If your doing it to get bigger muscles say, so you can intimidate and beat folk up, then there's definately aspects of Se there.

    I think Si types work out because they know overall that hedonism isn't good for them as overall having a fit healthy body leads to a healthy physical and mental state.

    Also..you can jog say upper level 2 in terms of pulse rate, its still working out but your not busting a hammer into it so more Si.

    Also, if your going full pelt, an Si would be more inclined to do this to feel the sensations of their body and feel alive, whereas an Se would do it perhaps more so in order to punish and test their limits IMO.

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    I think your "gym rat" type is more likely to value Se over Si, partially because they want to be fit - not just healthy, but noticeably very fit - to achieve an aura of power. Also, there's a certain element of Fe at a gym - it's a very social kind of place - and my husband will exercise if the doctor hassles him but he hates to do it in that kind of a setting because of that. So someone who values Se plus Fe in a lot of cases.

    But in general, working out could be done for a number of reasons, and some reasons could be type related and some might just be due to health circumstances.

    When I was single I went to the gym a lot because I lived alone and I hated being by myself all the time. That's an example of a reason that isn't Se or Si. But I think the reasons you gave are generally reasons why someone who values Se would.
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    And by personal power I mean as in having some kind of physical control over your environment.

    And I think Ni types don't like to think things are difficult for some reason, but that is mostly speculation.

    Edit: e.g. Gamma NT like the idea of work, but they like the idea that it should be difficult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    Personally I prefer exercising while playing fun games (which strikes me as more Si than Se), like ultimate frisbee or ping-pong. Swimming is good too.
    Example of valuing Si > Se.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    It's this feeling of toil and it's very unpleasant and I don't like it at all. If you can endure it and get through it
    Example of valuing Se > Si.
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    NO.

    working out is neither Se nor Si. if you work out to look good, improve your appearance, become stronger, etc., that's more closely related to Se.

    similarly working out for the purpose of feeling better, improving one's health or lifespan, is more closely linked to Si.

    it's about external versus internal demands.



    my only conclusion from this bullshit is that joy does not understand Se/Si.

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    I lift weights 6 days a week. I have a routine, and I do it because I enjoy the activity itself as well as the benefits. I have been routinely active at the gym for years. When I was younger, not so much. But over time it has become a well established part of my day to day. I don't ever see myself not going to the gym or changing my current lifestyle.

    So as to not generate discussion about my type, I have met Expat and Olga, and both agreed that I was an alpha Ti.

    Furthermore, it seems that obesity and laziness are not isolated to Se polr.
    LII
    that is what i was getting at. if there is an inescapable appropriation that is required in the act of understanding, this brings into question the validity of socionics in describing what is real, and hence stubborn contradictions that continue to plague me.

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    ^What he said.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

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    Quote Originally Posted by electric View Post
    I won't say Si or Se = working out, because I think that's a bit stupid. But this is my take on Si and working out:

    After working out you feel good (if you do it long enough), you feel more lively and active, you can do more, you sleep better and sometimes you eat better. Your quailty life is better.

    Working out makes you look good, more people of the desired sexual pursuasion want to sleep with you, you don't look weird (looking the mirror isn't such a bad experience).

    Working out makes you feel strong (and of course makes you stronger) which is sort of a extension of your personal power (personal power feels good) which you can show off whenever nessary (same with fitness).

    The actual activity of working out can be seen as fun and enjoyable even if it's difficult. I personally find hobbies or extra activities which I think are easy hard to focus on, I even like to think things are hard so I concentrate more. It gives you something to focus on. Focus and concentration is better than the opposite and the opposite is not enjoyable.
    Perfect, I agree completely. I don't see why a person has to limit him-herself to either working out to look good, or to improve health...obviously working out only for looking good is totally stupid since you only damage yourself...also I don't understand why people say that working out is painfulll, like, biking uphill for example is very "fatiguing" but also very pleasurable when you're a bit trained; it's just like maths that if you start with the idea that a problem is unworkable, you won't do it...

    Working out at the gym is good for strenght and for looking good, but I don't really "like" it, it's generally very boring but I do it three times a week for an hour max intensity to remain stable, after all it's just three hours a week
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    NO.

    working out is neither Se nor Si. if you work out to look good, improve your appearance, become stronger, etc., that's more closely related to Se.

    similarly working out for the purpose of feeling better, improving one's health or lifespan, is more closely linked to Si.

    it's about external versus internal demands.



    my only conclusion from this bullshit is that joy does not understand Se/Si.
    Are you trying to be helpful? I mean, if you were trying to be antagonistic, then fine, but I think you really have no idea how you come across. Talking to people this way is entirely unhelpful, as no matter how practical/logical you think you are being, people just won't listen to you if you deliver criticism like this. I don't mean to sound like I'm coming to Joy's rescue, but it just baffles me that you make serious posts in this manner.


    My opinion on this subject is that Se/Si are intertwined when it comes to exercise, and almost any person who exercises will have in mind both Se and Si benefits. For me, I like the fact that my shoulder and arm muscles are getting really toned from all the push ups I do, and that my legs are turning into solid muscle from squats and lunges, but I also like the feeling of general wellbeing and increased energy I get from pushing my body.

    Either Se or Si may be the predominant factor in a particular individual's motivation to start working out, but I don't see how you can say that both IEs aren't involved in the physical act.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    My initial thought is that it depends on the type of workout and the reason for doing it.

    If your being competitive that can be a little more Se. If your doing it to get bigger muscles say, so you can intimidate and beat folk up, then there's definately aspects of Se there.

    I think Si types work out because they know overall that hedonism isn't good for them as overall having a fit healthy body leads to a healthy physical and mental state.

    Also..you can jog say upper level 2 in terms of pulse rate, its still working out but your not busting a hammer into it so more Si.

    Also, if your going full pelt, an Si would be more inclined to do this to feel the sensations of their body and feel alive, whereas an Se would do it perhaps more so in order to punish and test their limits IMO.
    yep, it just depends on the reasons. i hate working out in gyms because i see so many people i know in school, and they never stop yapping at me. i relly just like going in and going out.

    working out is both si and se, it just depends on your reasons. my main reason is that it alleveates my mild asthma, and makes me feel like a million bucks when i'm done. the rest like muscles n such are just secondary benefits. i really do it for the runner's high =)

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    Also, the act of working out isn't something I would describe as coming totally naturally to me. It may seem like I do it easily to an observer because of my stoic attitude going in, but internally I feel like I'm forcing myself to do a bunch of relatively unpleasant things in order to achieve desirable benefits. I don't really enjoy exercising, but I enjoy having had exercised.

    The only time I really enjoy getting a workout is while fencing, because I'm engaged in a stimulating activity while doing the exercise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Are you trying to be helpful? I mean, if you were trying to be antagonistic, then fine, but I think you really have no idea how you come across. Talking to people this way is entirely unhelpful, as no matter how practical/logical you think you are being, people just won't listen to you if you deliver criticism like this. I don't mean to sound like I'm coming to Joy's rescue, but it just baffles me that you make serious posts in this manner.


    My opinion on this subject is that Se/Si are intertwined when it comes to exercise, and almost any person who exercises will have in mind both Se and Si benefits. For me, I like the fact that my shoulder and arm muscles are getting really toned from all the push ups I do, and that my legs are turning into solid muscle from squats and lunges, but I also like the feeling of general wellbeing and increased energy I get from pushing my body.

    Either Se or Si may be the predominant factor in a particular individual's motivation to start working out, but I don't see how you can say that both IEs aren't involved in the physical act.
    i just think niffweed made a very good point. just because he has no tact doesn't mean his point is moot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    i just think niffweed made a very good point. just because he has no tact doesn't mean his point is moot.
    You're right, which is why I in no way said that his point was "moot". What I did say is that his lack of tact is totally unproductive, which is sort of ironic given his outspoken advocation of being practical and correct.

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    Alright.

    And just to be clear, i usually don't like just lifting weights either (I only do it like once a week). I love excercise that involves an activity or motion or speed much much more. Running, sports, and martial arts i'll take any day over 'working out with the gym rats'. how dull

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    yep, it just depends on the reasons. i hate working out in gyms because i see so many people i know in school, and they never stop yapping at me. i relly just like going in and going out.
    Same, it's soooo much better to work out at home

    I love excercise that involves an activity or motion or speed much much more. Running, sports, and martial arts i'll take any day over 'working out with the gym rats'.
    True...or skiing, dancing, biking, etc
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    Yeah, ive no clue what 'snowboarding' goes under, but i'd take that too over doing nothing but gym

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    I am not saying that exercise IS Si or Se. This thread is just a description of behaviors I've noticed in various types and a theory about how it's related to information elements.

    There are going to be exceptions, as always, but I'm interested in whether the behavioral patterns I've described for each type have been more or less consistent with members' observations of those types.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    after all it's just three hours a week
    But what about the time it takes to wrap up whatever you were doing, get ready to go, travel there (and all of the other efforts that traveling entails as a whole, such as stopping to get gas, etc.), park, walk into the gym, and change before working out. Then once you're done there's the time it takes to get undressed, shower, get dressed, walk back out to the car, travel back, and get back into whatever it is you're going to do. There's also the extra laundry. (And if you don't already have clothes to work out in, you have to go buy some, which adds even more time, effort, and expense.)

    To me that whole mess sounds like a lot more work than simply running on a machine or lifting weights for an hour.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    But what about the time it takes to wrap up whatever you were doing, get ready to go, travel there (and all of the other efforts that traveling entails as a whole, such as stopping to get gas, etc.), park, walk into the gym, and change before working out. Then once you're done there's the time it takes to get undressed, shower, get dressed, walk back out to the car, travel back, and get back into whatever it is you're going to do. There's also the extra laundry. (And if you don't already have clothes to work out in, you have to go buy some, which adds even more time, effort, and expense.)

    To me that whole mess sounds like a lot more work than simply running on a machine or lifting weights for an hour.
    Eheh. I work out from home, so nothing like that One hour of working out takes me 1h15minutes with the shower
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    That sounds much, much easier. Plus then you don't have to deal with the people at the gym.
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    I would prefer to have a treadmill in my apartment... that will disappear when I'm not using it... and some thick material to wrap around my chest that stays very secure and isn't irksome... then I wouldn't have to wear anything else... and immediately shower afterwards... and only do it for about .5 hours 3-4x a week. Oh except there's the whole stretching thing... otherwise the muscles get screwed up and in about a week you find it hurts too much to use them...

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    buncha whiners

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Oh except there's the whole stretching thing... otherwise the muscles get screwed up and in about a week you find it hurts too much to use them...
    Stretchings never really something I've had to do if I'm only exercising for about half an hour or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    also I don't understand why people say that working out is painfulll, like, biking uphill for example is very "fatiguing" but also very pleasurable when you're a bit trained; it's just like maths that if you start with the idea that a problem is unworkable, you won't do it..
    I like the idea that there is going to be a lot of work involved but I'm going to get better at it if I stick with it. To me this feels good. I don't like to think it's a walk in the park, even when I have gotten good enough for things to be a walk in the park I start something a little more difficult. It's very focused and takes concentration, but to me it feels good.
    Last edited by leckysupport; 02-08-2008 at 07:37 PM.

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    I work out a lot. I'm Ni.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    martial arts
    Martial arts are really cool too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Are you trying to be helpful? I mean, if you were trying to be antagonistic, then fine, but I think you really have no idea how you come across. Talking to people this way is entirely unhelpful, as no matter how practical/logical you think you are being, people just won't listen to you if you deliver criticism like this. I don't mean to sound like I'm coming to Joy's rescue, but it just baffles me that you make serious posts in this manner.
    fuck you too. i'm making a serious point on Se/Si here and if you really are stupid enough to interpret it as being antagonistic, fuck you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    working out is both si and se, it just depends on your reasons. my main reason is that it alleveates my mild asthma, and makes me feel like a million bucks when i'm done. the rest like muscles n such are just secondary benefits. i really do it for the runner's high =)
    i think i agree that you can't call it just Si or Se. but for the fun of it, where do you place people who work out because they like the way it makes them feel? Si? it seems like there are too many Se polr types (such as mariano rajoy, here) who really enjoy this stuff. if i had to place people in any boxes, i think niffweed might have said it most accurately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slacker Mom View Post
    I think your "gym rat" type is more likely to value Se over Si, partially because they want to be fit - not just healthy, but noticeably very fit - to achieve an aura of power. Also, there's a certain element of Fe at a gym - it's a very social kind of place - and my husband will exercise if the doctor hassles him but he hates to do it in that kind of a setting because of that. So someone who values Se plus Fe in a lot of cases.
    yeah, i agree that "gym rats" more often strike me as Se>Si, but i think there are people who probably don't value Fe who go to the gym as well. and avoid gyms for other reasons. i don't really know anyone at my gym, and if i do i can usually cut off a conversation and don't feel all that inclined to join in. i wonder how many people avoid gyms due to weird sensing polrs as well (like, becoming intimidated at a gym because everyone is ridiculously attractive and totally not bothered by wearing ridiculous spandex shit.)
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    @implied

    Whats your take on my post? The first one (i think i posted 2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclops View Post
    My initial thought is that it depends on the type of workout and the reason for doing it.

    If your being competitive that can be a little more Se. If your doing it to get bigger muscles say, so you can intimidate and beat folk up, then there's definately aspects of Se there.

    I think Si types work out because they know overall that hedonism isn't good for them as overall having a fit healthy body leads to a healthy physical and mental state.
    agree with the bit on Se. i think there are some Si doms who won't do it because it doesn't "feel good" as well. there's the idea that working out can be a negative sort of sensation as well. seems like i've read a lot about ISFps not wanting to be bothered by strenuous physical activity. (i could hunt this down eventually if you like. i just tend to remember lots of crap i read and not the sources. this was in a description of ENTp/ISFp duality.)

    Also..you can jog say upper level 2 in terms of pulse rate, its still working out but your not busting a hammer into it so more Si.

    Also, if your going full pelt, an Si would be more inclined to do this to feel the sensations of their body and feel alive, whereas an Se would do it perhaps more so in order to punish and test their limits IMO.
    possibly so. i read a friend's journal entry/note the other day and she made what sounded like a physically treacherous and painful workout sound like something close to really good sex. perhaps this is some Ni type motivation. she's MBTI INFP.

    Quote Originally Posted by my pal
    So the other day I went with Allison to a Bikram yoga class and it practically massacred me physically. Ninety minutes in extreme heat moving between repeated sets of standing poses and floor poses found me unable to put any thoughts together save semi-numbly following the directions to the next, and the next, and the next way to position myself.

    Truly, the best workout in memory. Bikram is so physically punishing that it forces you to be meditative. It removes all opportunity for mind-wanderings and tunnels your vision down to the ideal mindset for optimum benefits. I’ll for sure be going back as much as I can, and not only because Allison is way smoking hot and Bikram is literally the only exercise she has done in almost two years.
    that has to be a Ni/Se type thing, in my mind. ahaha.
    Last edited by implied; 02-08-2008 at 10:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    agree with the bit on Se. i think there are some Si doms who won't do it because it doesn't "feel good" as well. there's the idea that working out can be a negative sort of sensation as well. seems like i've read a lot about ISFps not wanting to be bothered by strenuous physical activity. (i could hunt this down eventually if you like. i just tend to remember lots of crap i read and not the sources. this was in a description of ENTp/ISFp duality.)
    Your right about the ISFp not wanting to do exercise. Their Si tends to focus on being in their element in good food and good drink and good company. They know how to enjoy life. They are also said to have a love of nature. (i got the link re this which is a good source )

    I think its possible that they look for pleasure this way, because Si is their input, which then produces with their Fe, wheras for the other its the practical more logical producing Te (and really a nice healthy body and what have you could be seen as a practical logical output, esp when its coming from an Si source) So you could say in a way they are really doing the same thing but its just influenced by this second function. Just a thought, but there's plenty of them flying around

    However I know a girl outwith this forum who types herself ISFp and she's recently taken up jogging and feels its making her better. Bit of random info there but why not

    I tend to remember stuff as well but can't remember the source. It's cool

    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    possibly so. i read a friend's journal entry/note the other day and she made what sounded like a physically treacherous and painful workout sound like something close to really good sex. perhaps this is some Ni type motivation.
    I think if we all had an Allison then it could go a long way to curing the obesity crisis they say there is and not just for the yoga...but then, is that tantric sex

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I think most of us have related working out to Si because it's related to health, but having thought about this a bit more, I'm beginning to think it's more related to Se.

    Let's define "working out" so we can make sure we're all talking about the same thing.

    Working out: Engaging in physical activities specifically designed to strengthen, tone, improve health or appearance, extend lifespan, increase quality of living, etc. Activities that are done for any other reason (such as taking part in a hobby one enjoys, working, competing, dancing, commuting, etc.) do not count as working out for the purposes of this discussion, even if the results are the same.

    Examples of working out include lifting weights, using cardio machines, doing calisthenics (jumping jacks, push ups, etc.), and so on. Stretching may or may not count, depending on the reason one is stretching. The idea is that the sole purpose of working out is to, like I said, strengthen, tone, improve health or appearance, extend lifespan, increase quality of living, etc. Whether or not someone enjoys it is irrelevant.
    • Se dominants do tend to somewhat frequently do things that qualify as working out (as defined above), but they also seem to enjoy them. Running seems to be popular among the Se dominants that I know.
    • Se creative types seem to have an easier time maintaining a work out regimen than any other type. It appears to come quite naturally to them.
    • Se Role types seems to feel like working out is something they should probably discipline themselves to do, whether they actually do it or not.
    • Se PoLR types... you know, I was married to one and have a sister who is one and I don't think I've ever seen either of them work out. My sister used to run, but it was only because she was in the military. She was always rather sporadic about it though, and now only runs a few times a year as far as I know. Does anyone here know any Se PoLR types who work out (as defined above)? From what I've seen they seem to hold an appreciation for being active sometimes, but actually working out is something that they don't see any reason they should have to do.
    • Se dual seeking types enjoy working out if there's someone there to motivate them. They're unlikely to regularly work out on their own though.
    • Se hidden agenda types like the idea of working out regularly and probably go through periods where they attempt to do so, but are unable to maintain a work out regimen on their own for any period of time. It is next to impossible for them to do it on a long term, consistent basis without help from anyone else. And they may overdo it.
    • Se ignoring types seem rather unlikely to work out (as defined above), at least based on my understanding of those types and the people I've known of those types.
    • Se concrete art types seem to be the most likely to work out of all of the Si valuing types, as far as I've seen. They're more likely though to do things that keep them active than they are to work out (as defined above). I know one who very occasionally goes to a gym, but generally based on whether or not he felt like it, I think. I know one who stretches regularly, but it's for physical therapy from an accident. He didn't work out at all until he pretty much had to, as far as I know.
    According to model A, this theory appears to make sense. Also, Se types are static. The idea of working out is that it takes a person from one state to another. The focus isn't on the experience of performing the activity itself, as it would be from a Si perspective.
    Depends on why. Simple as that.
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    My ex liked working out b/c it got him out of 'work mode' - I guess quieting his inner state after being 'on' all day. And for general physical health. Not specifically to be built or anything.

    Interesting about the bikram yoga. That's precisely why I stay away from it, haha. I don't like being overly warm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer View Post
    My ex liked working out b/c it got him out of 'work mode' - I guess quieting his inner state after being 'on' all day. And for general physical health. Not specifically to be built or anything.

    Interesting about the bikram yoga. That's precisely why I stay away from it, haha. I don't like being overly warm.
    this is ISTp ex you're referring to?

    i think she makes the experience sound appealing although just by reading about it sounds like pure hell. it's honestly really good reframing on her part + a dose of masochism.
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    Yeah...

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    fuck you too. i'm making a serious point on Se/Si here and if you really are stupid enough to interpret it as being antagonistic, fuck you.
    Wow, Fe PoLR to the max.

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