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Thread: Right and wrong, with discojoe

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    Default Right and wrong, with discojoe

    Right: Something that you feel like you should do.

    Wrong: Something that you feel like you should not do.

    That's all there is to it. Ta.

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    So if I feel like I should periodically punch babies repeatedly in the forehead, that makes it right?
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    Maybe Discojoe's feelings about what he should or should not do are very clear to him... and so it then easily follows into right/wrong distinctions.

    But if your feelings about what you should or shouldn't do aren't so clear, then such a system isn't as helpful.

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    Mind if I quote this and send it into the philosophy department as a possible replacement for their ethics class textbooks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quirk Satellite Div. View Post
    Mind if I quote this and send it into the philosophy department as a possible replacement for their ethics class textbooks?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Maybe Discojoe's feelings about what he should or should not do are very clear to him... and so it then easily follows into right/wrong distinctions.

    But if your feelings about what you should or shouldn't do aren't so clear, then such a system isn't as helpful.
    Yes it is. If you don't know which to do, then you should do neither. If you can't decide, but have to make a decision within a time frame, then it stops being an ethical question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Quirk Satellite Div. View Post
    Mind if I quote this and send it into the philosophy department as a possible replacement for their ethics class textbooks?
    Go ahead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    So if I feel like I should periodically punch babies repeatedly in the forehead, that makes it right?
    No, because there is a difference between feeling like doing something, and feeling like you should do something.

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    For me, the problem is more often that I feel like I should do too many things. Things that conflict with other things I feel like I should do. Things that I have an unnecessary sense of obligation to do. It's quite maddening at times.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elro View Post
    So if I feel like I should periodically punch babies repeatedly in the forehead, that makes it right?
    If you really, truly, genuinely feel like that's what you should do, then that's what you should do. And then the people around you will commit or arrest you because that's what they feel they should do. There's no overall right and wrong law for everyone. Because we all ultimately make our own decisions, we must each have our own moral compass. What else could we have?
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    Yes it is. If you don't know which to do, then you should do neither.
    Then usually I would find myself not doing practically anything if I find almost every single choice to be practically equivalent? Perhaps I am short on morals?

    Anyway,
    What if there are no grounds in between such as doing neither?
    ILI perhaps?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    For me, the problem is more often that I feel like I should do too many things. Things that conflict with other things I feel like I should do. Things that I have an unnecessary sense of obligation to do. It's quite maddening at times.
    That's rather how I feel as well.

    Actually, no it's not... it's just more a... you know I'm really tired. Bye.

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    The actual hard part for a lot of people is getting past the physical side of it. The main reasons why you would be tempted to do something you <i>shouldn't</i> do are going to be because you want something in a physical way. Something that will appeal to your senses, or make you feel physically better even if only a little while. Zillions of examples of this...another one is when you feel mentally weak, most likely due to something the body needs, then comes the justification.


    It's easy to know, harder to ignore your body and own mental weakness.
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    I told Peter that I tend to think of most things in terms of wise or unwise instead of right or wrong. (There are things that I see as right and wrong though of course, things related to violations of the rights of others for example.) He said that I try to look at most things in terms of practicality when most things are more so a matter of right and wrong. I told him that right and wrong aren't always clear. He said that if you genuinely don't know what you should do (in the context of right and wrong), then it's not an ethical decision. I said that if that's thecase, most things are not ethical decisions for me.

    I think that's what it comes down to. For someone who has a clear concept of ethics, then that's what they should use to make their decisions. For people who have a stronger sense of the practical aspects of the situation (and a less clear concept of what their ethical compass is pointing them towards), then that's what they should use to make their decisions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khamelion View Post
    The actual hard part for a lot of people is getting past the physical side of it. The main reasons why you would be tempted to do something you <i>shouldn't</i> do are going to be because you want something in a physical way. Something that will appeal to your senses, or make you feel physically better even if only a little while. Zillions of examples of this...another one is when you feel mentally weak, most likely due to something the body needs, then comes the justification.


    It's easy to know, harder to ignore your body and own mental weakness.
    I tend to think that most of what people do wrong they do out of fear and insecurity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    "genuinely don't know what you should do"

    i think that's a case when apparently you should ask your conscience.

    Conscience is an ability or faculty or sense that distinguishes whether our actions are right or wrong. It leads to feelings of remorse when we do things that go against our moral values, and to feelings of rectitude or integrity when our actions conform to our moral values. It is also the attitude which informs our moral judgment before performing any action. The extent to which such moral judgements are based in reason has been a matter of controversy almost throughout the history Western philosophy.
    Commonly used metaphors refer to the "voice of conscience" or "voice within." (wikipedia)
    Consulting one's conscience doesn't always work for everyone, at least not if you consider feeling guilty to be related to one's conscience. I feel guilty when I haven't done anything wrong, and I often honestly have no idea what I should do because I know I'll feel guilty no matter I decide. That's one reason why having an ESI around helps me. He tells me that there's no reason I should feel obligated to do something (or that I really should do something). If he tells me I shouldn't feel like I should have to do something, sometimes I do it anyways. If he tells me I should do something though, I think I pretty much always do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    Because we all ultimately make our own decisions, we must each have our own moral compass. What else could we have?
    Reasoning on what are the consequences of the actions, and skill to adapt.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by n00bula View Post
    Then usually I would find myself not doing practically anything if I find almost every single choice to be practically equivalent? Perhaps I am short on morals?

    Anyway,
    What if there are no grounds in between such as doing neither?
    If the moral decision is unclear, then turn it into a practical decision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    Reasoning on what are the consequences of the actions, and skill to adapt.
    I completely agree. What I said was a response to Elro's post for the most part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I tend to think that most of what people do wrong they do out of fear and insecurity.

    which eventually stems back into the physical realm, in most cases, imo
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    i read that unless there is a struggle (some difficulty) the decision is not an ethical one. but i see that as different than saying that if you start weighing pros and cons in a practical sense then it's not ethical.

    I believe discojoe should update this thread every week.

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    He'd just be saying the same thing every week. He's been saying that as long as I've known him: If someone thinks that they're doing something they shouldn't be doing, they're wrong, regardless of the consequences (after we get caught up on Lost I'll have a kick ass example). If they truly believe they're doing the right thing, they're not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Right: Something that you feel like you should do.

    Wrong: Something that you feel like you should not do.

    That's all there is to it. Ta.
    Ethical Egoism ?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Faggotry?

    But seriously, no. I don't see where you're arriving at that conclusion. There's a pretty clear distinction between doing what you know will benefit you and doing what you feel is right.

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    Depends on the person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by discojoe View Post
    Right: Something that you feel like you should do.

    Wrong: Something that you feel like you should not do.
    Has the time come to come, discojoe? Is she ready, finally?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord
    Reasoning on what are the consequences of the actions, and skill to adapt.
    what about Ni devalued and weak J types i wonder...
    They just keep on getting lynched for punching babies

    I don't believe there's a universal (at least simple) solution to solving this entire issue, what this thread is about. Also it depends on what the goal is, or if there's any.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    i wonder if ethical altruism is in delta and ethical egoism in gamma is a tendency?
    I don't think so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    It probably would be more along the lines of subjectivism or emotivism. I can see how that would work with particularly well-set individuals, but certainly not as a basic principle for all. Then again, I've become skeptical that any such principles exist (i.e. follow/do this and you're doing the right/or approximately right thing). Not everyone has an internal ethical lodestone. Some people wouldn't even think such a thing desirable. Additionally, there are other considerations, but I'll try not to go nuts about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    i wonder if ethical altruism is in delta and ethical egoism in gamma is a tendency?
    Oversimplifications typically don't advance the issue overmuch and all that guff. Dere's dat nuance, oy!
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