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Thread: MBTI ENTJ traits shared with the socionics LIE?

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default MBTI ENTJ traits shared with the socionics LIE?

    From EIDB:

    Originally posted by Functianalyst
    [br]Well I have come to learn that there is no direct correlation with the two systems and have saw INTPs claiming to be E3s. However I first would stand-by my inclinations that an ENTJ will most likely not be an E6. Some examples, first a brief descriptor from David Keirsey:
    If one word were used to capture ENTJ's style, it would be commandant. The basic driving force and need of ENTJ's is to lead, and from an early age they can be observed taking over groups. ENTJ's have a strong urge to give structure wherever they are-to harness people to distant goals.
    and from Joe Butts’ Typelogic.com
    ENTJs are decisive. They see what needs to be done, and frequently assign roles to their fellows. Few other types can equal their ability to remain resolute in conflict, sending the valiant (and often leading the charge) into the mouth of hell. When challenged, the ENTJ may by reflex become argumentative. Alternatively (s)he may unleash an icy gaze that serves notice: the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with.
    I'm not concerned with the ENTJ being a Six. What I'm interested in is drawing parallels with ENTJ and LIE; especially in the area of command. I want to know if LIEs are as effective leaders as ENTJs are made out to be.
    Last edited by Ezra; 02-05-2008 at 03:26 PM.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Creepy-Diana

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    I like your stories, Diana. You should tell them more often.
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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    LIEs are NTs after all. They are neither people-people nor action-people. Like all other NTs, they speak a lot and actually do little.

    Probably they are seen as commanding because they are very good at business stuff and thus they often get promoted to high places in the laboral ladder. Being a manager or whatever is a job that requieres giving orders to others, but those are the properties of the job and not the person itself. In my opinion ENTj are very inclusive and democratic and I deeply admire that property of them.

    LIEs are quite weak if you go beyond the surface. I have an ILI friend whose mom was a LIE and she told me that her mother was rather insecure but hid that from anyone else. She discovered it because her mom died and left a diary.

    So no, I don't think ENTJ relates much to LIE. I have an IEE friend that scores ENTJ in MBTI.
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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    One person that I've known as a possible LIE that I've seen in a leadership position - hmm. He wasn't commanding at all. He didn't like to be referred to as the boss of those he hired, but liked to be seen as a coworker.
    I've been in "leadership" (brr I hate the word) positions while working, and that's how I tended to take them. Like, I was just acting as a coordinator among people that were doing specific jobs, in my mind, not that I was superior or anything.

    LIEs are quite weak if you go beyond the surface.
    What kind of surface, sorry? I'd expect a LIE to be "weak" at FiSe, but "strong" at TeNi...

    Btw, I don't relate to the ENTJ mbti description much. ENTP, ESTP are better. Yet I tend to score ENTJ lately on the test.

    LIEs are NTs after all. They are neither people-people nor action-people. Like all other NTs, they speak a lot and actually do little.

    Probably they are seen as commanding because they are very good at business stuff and thus they often get promoted to high places in the laboral ladder.
    That's logically inconsistent - if you do little it's very unlikely that superiors notice you and move you up.
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    Éminence grise mikemex's Avatar
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    Weak as persons. I mean, they try to give away the impression that they are strong people and don't care a shit about what other people think and such, but they do. They are pretty easy to get hurt and insecure in the inside.

    And by doing little, I mean that they tend to give advice, or orders, or whatever rather than doing things themselves.
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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Weak as persons. I mean, they try to give away the impression that they are strong people and don't care a shit about what other people think and such, but they do. They are pretty easy to get hurt and insecure in the inside.
    I think probably this has more to do with individuals than particular types. I definitely do not care about what some people think, and care about what some other people think. I suppose you will find this to be the standard among the majority of the population.

    And by doing little, I mean that they tend to give advice, or orders, or whatever rather than doing things themselves.
    If advice is what people need, then advice is still doing things. Demand and supply, baby.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    LIEs are NTs after all. They are neither people-people nor action-people. Like all other NTs, they speak a lot and actually do little.
    A LIE who does ... little ...? ... ... yeah, that was a good one ...

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    I have an IEE friend that scores ENTJ in MBTI.
    Yeah, some IEEs are really lost. I don't know what to do about the problem, but their brains have a tendency to make trips now and then. Maybe some programmer can fix the bug for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    What he would do instead was really funny. He would hide. My ex told me that he didn't answer the door at all and so he glanced in as he walked past the window and the LxE was crouching down trying to hide behind his computer so my ex wouldn't see him.
    I related to most of what you wrote, fwiw, but not really to the above, except perhaps as a momentary automatic gesture, but not actually actively "hiding". I would either ask to talk later or indeed use a "do not disturb" sign (but I would also wonder whether it's rude).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Yet I tend to score ENTJ lately on the test.
    Probably because you want to. After a certain time, any test's results anyone gets will ultimately be defined by their own manipulation of the test, even if it's subconscious.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Probably because you want to. After a certain time, any test's results anyone gets will ultimately be defined by their own manipulation of the test, even if it's subconscious.
    So how come I've always scored ENTx with split J P in the past too? Please gather all he relevant information before speaking, thanks.
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    So how come I've always scored ENTx with split J P in the past too? Please gather all he relevant information before speaking, thanks.
    For fuck's sake, Fabio, this isn't an argument, I just offered a likelihood.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  13. #13
    Creepy-Cyclops

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    From EIDB:



    I'm not concerned with the ENTJ being a Six. What I'm interested in is drawing parallels with ENTJ and LIE; especially in the area of command. I want to know if LIEs are as effective leaders as ENTJs are made out to be.
    My experience of them is that they are natural leaders. I have observed some being more effective than others, so wether they lead a company to disaster or not is down to the individual.

    Whats a six? Mm.. Oh.. I take it this is ennegram 'speak'?
    Last edited by Cyclops; 02-05-2008 at 08:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    For fuck's sake, Fabio, this isn't an argument, I just offered a likelihood.
    You didn't offer a likelihood.

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