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Thread: Stargate: Atlantis - I found a TV character I like

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Default Stargate: Atlantis - I found a TV character I like

    I doubt (m)any of you have seen him.

    I'm guessing I already know his type, but I'll still throw it out there to see what anybody else thinks.

    Col. Steven Caldwell, a satellite character from the science fiction series Stargate: Atlantis



    Why I like him: He's good - as in, a good person. He's not the most pleasant, jovial, friendly guy, which seems to annoy some of the other characters. If he disagrees he'll say it and not always diplomatically, though I think he's polite enough. He has opinions on what is the right thing to do and his reasons are always legitimate, imo, even if other people (or the supposed audience) disagree with him. He's pragmatic, a no-nonsense kind of guy. He takes his responsibilities seriously, like looking out for the lives of the people who work for him. It seems he's always running around cleaning up the other characters' messes. He's reliable. Something that gets him in trouble with the other characters is when they want him to do something for them and he says he can't because he doesn't want to risk personnel or equipment. When he does go along with them, though, he does everything right. They'd all be dead several times over right now if it weren't for him, but he never gets any credit. And he's (usually) ok with that. The main thing with him is getting the job done. The job, in this case - keeping humanity safe within the context of the military.

    Sometimes I just want to hug him.

    Negative qualities: ... Can't think of any. Except that he's fictional.


    [EDIT: Cut out the videos because they no longer work.]
    Last edited by Minde; 09-28-2009 at 07:09 PM.
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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    Oh come on Minde, a forum full of nerds and no Stargate Atlantis watchers? Pshaw.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diana View Post
    I used to watch Stargate and Stargate Atlantis, but haven't seen it in a long while.

    As for the Colonel. He does play it too safe at times, in my opinion, focusing too much on the short term than the long - like in that first clip, Dr. Weir has to remind him that they're trying to keep the wraith from getting to Earth. He was so focused on the damaged ships that he seemed to momentarily forget that fact. But yes, he is pragmatic, down-to-earth, responsible and reliable. Actually, Weir and him kind of balance each other out as far as leadership goes in some cases, although when they argue I tend to agree with her.
    Yeah, I had momentarily forgotten that you'd seen Stargate before. I remember that you also thought O'Neil hilarious. (He cracks me up, too.)

    And, yes, I do agree about the too safe at times bit. But, it seems once somebody can convince him that it's worth it he'll go for it and put his best in. Also, he seems to have mellowed a little since the first episodes of the series where he had the most conflicts with the other lead characters. Or maybe they've just got used to each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salawa View Post


    I'm not familiar with him and I haven't seen the videos yet, but you describe him as if he was LSE.
    That's my guess. It fits well enough, even the part about being too focused on the short term.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Default Stargate Atlantis

    Lately I've been re-watching Stargate Atlantis and analyzing the characters for socionics data (as well as just enjoying the show ). I've finished Season One, and here are my thoughts on the characters:

    Dr. Elizabeth Weir: INFj. Pretty sure of this: she deals with large-scale Ne issues using primarily diplomacy and interpersonal relationships. From my LII perspective, she seems annoyingly focused on diplomacy and humanitarian issues, when there are other, more pressing, logical concerns. Supervises McKay, seems to view him as an irresponsible child.

    Maj. John Sheppard
    : ESTj. Also fairly confident. Duality relationship with Weir provides a subtle romantic subtext which, typically for Stargate, is kept in the background. Benefactor to McKay.

    Dr. Rodney McKay: I think the argument for ENTp has been made pretty conclusively elsewhere. Unfortunately for him, his two superior officers (Weir and Sheppard) are his Supervisor and his Benefactor, meaning that his Herculean weekly efforts to save the galaxy are never really appreciated.

    Teyla Emmagen: ISFj -- I think. Not quite as certain of this as I am about the other three, but it's the only one I can think of that makes any sense. Her relationships to her people, to her friends, etc., seem more important to her than anything else, and she seems prepared to defend them. Semi-Duality with Sheppard also makes a good deal of sense.

    Lt. Aiden Ford: Really not sure. Some Feeling type, I think. I've considered ISFp and ENFp, but if anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. He seems good with kids (as opposed to Rodney, who always tries to scare them away), sensitive to ethical concerns.

    Dr. Carson Beckett
    : I really have no idea. I considered INFj and INFp, but I don't even know if I'm on the right track. I think he must be intuitive, but who knows?

    Dr. Radek Zelenka: The real hero of the show, and my favourite character. But I might be a little biased, as I'm pretty sure he's LII like me.

    Anyway, here's a relationship map I produced using VUE:


    Red lines = Relations of Attraction; blue lines = Relations of Repulsion. Short, thick lines = close, compatible relations; long, thin lines = distant, incompatible relations. Blue boxes = Alpha; Red boxes = Beta, Purple boxes = Gamma; Green boxes = Delta.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Sooo... not a lot of Stargate fans, then?
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Sooo... not a lot of Stargate fans, then?
    Honestly, it is hard to type many TV shows like this, because the interrelations can seem almost...unnaturally forced. So while a character may seem like a certain type, the interrelations between the characters may suggest another type entirely. Stargate Atlantis is no different in this regard.

    I have some thoughts as to their types, but some were quite different than what you proposed. I want to reexamine my own typing and yours before commenting.

    An aside: Rodney and Zalenka are my favorite characters in the show.
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's the thing about a show like this; it's not an internally-focused character drama based on people and relationships, but rather an externally-focused action drama based on the events and external dangers. In a lot of ways, I find this to be closer to reality; people who don't get along personally are capable of maintaining a polite distance without ever having a big dramatic confrontation like inevitably happens in the character dramas.

    Plus, the show seems quite Delta to me. That whole quadra seems rather allergic to emotional "drama" as they call it.
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    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Sooo... not a lot of Stargate fans, then?
    Show always kinda bored me and the production values were kinda iffy.

    I agree with what logos said and I'd add that the relationships change as needed by the writers, as do the staff of writers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    Show always kinda bored me and the production values were kinda iffy.

    I agree with what logos said and I'd add that the relationships change as needed by the writers, as do the staff of writers.
    This may be true to a degree, but as an amateur writer myself, I've worked on projects with other writers before, and as long as the writers are all reasonably decent, it's actually surprisingly easy to maintain consistent characters and relationships throughout. This is especially true of a T.V. show, as the actors remain the same despite the changes of writers, and they're the ones responsible for the final product. Most characters are the same type as their actor, anyway.

    I contend that any character who maintains a consistent pattern of behaviour can be typed. In the case of a show like Stargate, the characters and relationships may not be as deep and fully fleshed-out as other shows (the emphasis being elsewhere), but as long as there's consistent patterns, they can be typed.
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    Pretend like it's the weekend Banana Pancakes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    This may be true to a degree, but as an amateur writer myself, I've worked on projects with other writers before, and as long as the writers are all reasonably decent, it's actually surprisingly easy to maintain consistent characters and relationships throughout. This is especially true of a T.V. show, as the actors remain the same despite the changes of writers, and they're the ones responsible for the final product. Most characters are the same type as their actor, anyway.

    I contend that any character who maintains a consistent pattern of behaviour can be typed. In the case of a show like Stargate, the characters and relationships may not be as deep and fully fleshed-out as other shows (the emphasis being elsewhere), but as long as there's consistent patterns, they can be typed.
    Makes sense.

    Too bad you're gravely deluded :wink:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banana Pancakes View Post
    Makes sense.

    Too bad you're gravely deluded :wink:
    Well, yes, there is that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Well, yes, there is that.
    Ya know, I feel sorry for anyone reading through the forum archives a bit from now.

    "Wow these people had some intense arguments over TV shows!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Most characters are the same type as their actor, anyway.
    Are you sure about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xkj220 View Post
    Are you sure about this?
    Well, I wouldn't say I'm 100% certain of it, but it is a trend I've noticed. Casting directors look for actors who are good at portraying the fictional character they're casting. They need to be believable, convincing. Who is more convincing than someone playing their own type?

    Some character actors like Johnny Depp can play a broad range of types, but I would say most actors wind up playing their own identicals or mirrors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Well, I wouldn't say I'm 100% certain of it, but it is a trend I've noticed. Casting directors look for actors who are good at portraying the fictional character they're casting. They need to be believable, convincing. Who is more convincing than someone playing their own type?
    I dunno, I can make a really convincing ESE. Some would argue that it's because I am one.

  15. #15
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Plus, the show seems quite Delta to me. That whole quadra seems rather allergic to emotional "drama" as they call it.
    I hadn't thought of it before, but the show is indeed "comfortable" to me. In general I like it and can watch it with a minimum of internal discomfort, though there are times when I get mad at some of the characters for moral decisions I disagree with (i.e. the betrayal of Michael).

    BTW, there was at least one other thread that I know of, made awhile ago, about a SGA character: Col. Caldwell. He seems ESTj to me.

    I'm not sure of Sheppard as ESTj; there's something off about that typing, though I can't put my finger on it. Maybe he's too, um, settled. And Beckett might be ISFp. He has a caregiver-y attitude toward most people, but in a sweet, not-all-over-the-place way.

    I like Zelenka, too.
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    I agree, the show is "comfortable" to me, too (there's not all the melodrama of Beta shows), but I have to admit, I often find myself annoyed at Dr. Weir's and Teyla's Fi focus on diplomacy and relationships. Although, since learning socionics and figuring out her type, I'm able to understand and sympathise with her much more than I did the first time through.

    Col. Caldwell I'm pretty sure is an ISTj. His focus on rules and order clashes with the Atlantis crew's lax Delta attitude of Te efficacy over Ti order; his tendency to be more aggressive than the others (Se); his initial attempts at a relationship with Dr. Weir and her reaction, which seems very Super-Ego to me; it all points toward ISTj in my mind.

    Col. Ellis, from the later seasons, now he does seem like he could be ESTj. I haven't come to a firm conclusion on that yet, though.

    On Sheppard, I know what you mean about ESTj seeming "off", but logically ESTj is the only thing I can think of that fits. I also considered ISTp, but he seems pretty extraverted to me. He could just be an uncommon manifestation of the type.

    I'm really glad you said ISFp for Beckett, because that's the tenuous conclusion I finally reached! It's good to have someone else independently come to that conclusion. I think especially telling was his final episode where he dies, when the ILE Rodney says that Beckett was the closest thing he ever had to a best friend--duality! I think ISFp works. (Also, I've noticed that ISFps often seem to give off the same "vibe" as INFjs, for some reason, just like ESFjs often give off a similar "vibe" to ENFps. This makes sense of why I was leaning toward INFj initially.)

    What do you think of Teyla as ISFj?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    What do you think of Teyla as ISFj?
    I am not entirely sure about that. Intuitively, there is just something that seems off about that typing.

    You have also not yet typed Ronon Dex.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    I am not entirely sure about that. Intuitively, there is just something that seems off about that typing.
    Yeah, that's why I asked. I have this nagging feeling that ISFj isn't right, but can't think of any other possibilities. I'm much better at analyzing whether a possibility is right or wrong than coming up with new ones. A result of 3-dimensional Ne, I guess?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    You have also not yet typed Ronon Dex.
    Well, those were my Season 1 typings. I'm up to Season 4 now, and I keep coming back to ESTp for Ronon. He seems really quiet and almost shy for an ESTp, but I think his ESTp-ness comes out more when there's other Satedans around -- they all seem quite Beta to me. It's still a very tentative typing though. For one thing that would make him a Conflictor to Weir, who I've typed as INFj.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Yeah, that's why I asked. I have this nagging feeling that ISFj isn't right, but can't think of any other possibilities. I'm much better at analyzing whether a possibility is right or wrong than coming up with new ones. A result of 3-dimensional Ne, I guess?
    Part of the problem is that she really does not appear as being much of a multidimensional character. She's just kind of...there. She can be strong-willed and self-sufficient, but she mostly follows others and trusts their judgments and decisions. But she is also highly sensitive and traditional in regards to observing the customs of her people.

    Well, those were my Season 1 typings. I'm up to Season 4 now, and I keep coming back to ESTp for Ronon. He seems really quiet and almost shy for an ESTp, but I think his ESTp-ness comes out more when there's other Satedans around -- they all seem quite Beta to me. It's still a very tentative typing though. For one thing that would make him a Conflictor to Weir, who I've typed as INFj.
    This was my hypothesis as well, but I was trying to rationalize this with his good relationship with John Sheppard (LSE; quasi-identical).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Part of the problem is that she really does not appear as being much of a multidimensional character. She's just kind of...there. She can be strong-willed and self-sufficient, but she mostly follows others and trusts their judgments and decisions. But she is also highly sensitive and traditional in regards to observing the customs of her people.
    I think those things are not inconsistent with ESI. Strong-willed and self-sufficient could be an indication of Ego Se, while trusting the big-picture judgements and decisions of others could be weak Intuition. The strongest indication in my mind, however, is her loyalty to her people and their traditions -- this seems to indicate base-Fi to me.

    Also, a Semi-Dual relationship with Sheppard makes sense to me, as does a Supervision relationship with Ronon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    This was my hypothesis as well, but I was trying to rationalize this with his good relationship with John Sheppard (LSE; quasi-identical).
    He does have a pretty good relationship with Sheppard, but I think if you look at the episodes where he meets other Satedans, Ronon's relationship with them (being fellow Betas) seems much more natural and relaxed. He seems louder and more open, and expresses a lot more emotion. I think one of the reasons he appears so subdued in SGA is that he's surrounded by Deltas and Gammas, mostly. I would say he's a rational subtype, specifically Normalizing (in DCNH).

    Anyway, the reason my response was so delayed is that I was working on relationship maps for Season 2 and Season 4 (Season 3 being much the same as Season 2, from what I recall).

    Season 2:


    Season 2 with Zelenka and Caldwell partially worked in:


    And Season 4:


    I typed Col. Carter as INTj, but I'd be open to other suggestions. I think INTj works with the intertype relations. Certainly there's less "Rodney you're an idiot" condescension with her than with Weir. If I'm right about her type, then she and Dr. Keller decidedly shift the show toward Alpha in Season 4, leaving Sheppard as the only major Delta character. It's interesting that the show as a whole is very Alpha/Delta, and the two Gamma/Beta characters are the two outsiders who never entirely fit in with the others...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I think those things are not inconsistent with ESI. Strong-willed and self-sufficient could be an indication of Ego Se, while trusting the big-picture judgements and decisions of others could be weak Intuition. The strongest indication in my mind, however, is her loyalty to her people and their traditions -- this seems to indicate base-Fi to me.

    Also, a Semi-Dual relationship with Sheppard makes sense to me, as does a Supervision relationship with Ronon.
    Niffweed typed her as ESE. I am still trying to figure it out, since again, there is something intuitively off about her being ESI.

    I typed Col. Carter as INTj, but I'd be open to other suggestions. I think INTj works with the intertype relations. Certainly there's less "Rodney you're an idiot" condescension with her than with Weir. If I'm right about her type, then she and Dr. Keller decidedly shift the show toward Alpha in Season 4, leaving Sheppard as the only major Delta character. It's interesting that the show as a whole is very Alpha/Delta, and the two Gamma/Beta characters are the two outsiders who never entirely fit in with the others...
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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Niffweed typed her as ESE. I am still trying to figure it out, since again, there is something intuitively off about her being ESI.
    I don't know about ESE; at the very least I would say she is Fi-valuing, and probably Fi-Ego. I remember one episode where she had agreed to rescue some people from the Wraith in the jumper, and Sheppard said that they didn't have time to do that and complete their mission as well. It seemed to me that it was an argument of Fi personal loyalty vs. Te pragmatism. Her argument was basically "I've known these people for a long time, they're like family, we can't just betray them." Sheppard didn't disagree that they should honour Fi loyalty, he was just more focused on the pressing Te matters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Sam Carter: IEE.
    I don't know, she seems introverted to me. I will keep it in mind as a possibility, however, as I continue to watch Season 4.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I don't know, she seems introverted to me. I will keep it in mind as a possibility, however, as I continue to watch Season 4.
    Have you not seen Stargate SG-1?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Have you not seen Stargate SG-1?
    Perhaps her character changed a bit?

    Anyway, certainly in SG-1 I see her as IEE. Numerous scenes where she just can't get to the point and paces through an absolute mire of technical stuff spring to mind. Similarly, the rare scenes where she's nerding it up with Glasses, who I have as EII due to his interest in alien cultures and strong moralistic bent (the episode involving the Replicator girl being a good example... he wants to look after her and reach out to her, and is very, very hurt when Richard Dean Awesomeson kills her (spoilers!)).

    At any rate, I'll go refer to my font of all wisdom, Aldous "Isha" Huxley and report back!

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    Contrarian Traditionalist Krig the Viking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Have you not seen Stargate SG-1?
    I have, but that was before I knew socionics, so I haven't watched it with socionics in mind. That said, I really don't remember her being as outgoing as most IEEs that I am aware of, but like I said, I haven't ruled it out as an option yet. More research is necessary.

    BTW, what do you type O'Neill as?

    Quote Originally Posted by Coolanzon View Post
    Perhaps her character changed a bit?

    Anyway, certainly in SG-1 I see her as IEE. Numerous scenes where she just can't get to the point and paces through an absolute mire of technical stuff spring to mind. Similarly, the rare scenes where she's nerding it up with Glasses, who I have as EII due to his interest in alien cultures and strong moralistic bent (the episode involving the Replicator girl being a good example... he wants to look after her and reach out to her, and is very, very hurt when Richard Dean Awesomeson kills her (spoilers!)).

    At any rate, I'll go refer to my font of all wisdom, Aldous "Isha" Huxley and report back!
    I dunno, her character seems pretty consistent between the two shows to me. Her type in one is almost certainly her type in the other.

    Who do you mean when you refer to "Glasses"? Daniel Jackson?
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Who do you mean when you refer to "Glasses"? Daniel Jackson?
    Yes! That guy.

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    Ah. Yeah, I'm quite certain he's LII. His interest in alien cultures is an interest in new societal systems (Ti), rather than an interest in subjective personal relationships (Fi). Similarly, objective systems of morality ("Is this action right or wrong?") are the province of Ti, interpersonal ethics ("How will my actions affect that person?") is the province of Fi. LIIs make up for a lack of an Fi understanding of relationships by figuring out a systematic Ti code of behaviour.

    Dr. Weir is a better example of a Stargate EII, IMHO.

    Not sure what all that implies for Carter, though.
    Quaero Veritas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    BTW, what do you type O'Neill as?
    ESI, though I am open to other arguments.

    I dunno, her character seems pretty consistent between the two shows to me. Her type in one is almost certainly her type in the other.
    I agree. The only thing that changes are her responsibilities, as she goes from being a team member to a military governor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Ah. Yeah, I'm quite certain he's LII. His interest in alien cultures is an interest in new societal systems (Ti), rather than an interest in subjective personal relationships (Fi). Similarly, objective systems of morality ("Is this action right or wrong?") are the province of Ti, interpersonal ethics ("How will my actions affect that person?") is the province of Fi. LIIs make up for a lack of an Fi understanding of relationships by figuring out a systematic Ti code of behaviour.
    I was definitely originally inclined to think that Dr. Jackson is LII. The only thing that he did that I probably would have done differently is stay ascended. But I went with EII partially because at times it did seem as if his actions did stem from ethical concerns. Also, his relationship with Vala (who I typed as SEE) made more sense with EII than LII.
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    no one has typed todd (the wraith), my new favorite character on this show.

    i think it was just a combination of oversight and coincidence. i mean no one intended to forget about todd.

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    btw here's an interview with Christopher Heyerdahl (http://www.gateworld.net/interviews/..._wraith2.shtml) where on pgs 2-3 he talks about playing Todd.

    I really love these bits:

    Quote Originally Posted by CH
    ...when we originally made him [Todd], he's been sitting in a cell for an awfully long time, in a hell of a lot of pain, and has given up hope. The most distasteful thing, I think for him, was the fact that he was given hope by a little creature [Sheppard] that he doesn't necessarily have a whole lot of respect for...

    He's given hope by this guy [Sheppard] and there's a bond that is formed between this Wraith and Sheppard that's not necessarily the same bond between Sheppard and the Wraith...

    Sheppard is a guy who never gives up. He always thinks his friends are going to come and get him. He always thinks he's going to be saved. He always thinks he's going to get out. If not by somebody else he's going to get out on his own. He never gives up. Here's a guy [Todd] who has given up. He's completely given up. And yet he's given the gift of life, hope, brotherhood, through the strangest venue, and that's Sheppard...

    So his connection to Sheppard is much more... profound than the other way around, because Sheppard has given him a key out of years of his life, whereas for Sheppard it's one more adventure. One more life-saving detrimental that turns into being a rather positive ending, as is his way.
    I definitely felt (or like to believe) that Sheppard means something to Todd. I probably wished for more connection between them.

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    i never understood the thrill of this series. Always seemed dull and too easy

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    yes, typing Todd is a challenge, I agree.

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    typing todd is irrevelant to irrelevant to irrelevance.

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    well, i can only wish that not everyone feels that way as i feel unable to type todd and you are clearly unwilling to do so

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    todd is untypable retard

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    others will be able to do it. just not you.

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    others will give you lies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    Dr. Elizabeth Weir: INFj. Pretty sure of this: she deals with large-scale Ne issues using primarily diplomacy and interpersonal relationships. From my LII perspective, she seems annoyingly focused on diplomacy and humanitarian issues, when there are other, more pressing, logical concerns. Supervises McKay, seems to view him as an irresponsible child.
    Dr. Rodney McKay: I think the argument for ENTp has been made pretty conclusively elsewhere. Unfortunately for him, his two superior officers (Weir and Sheppard) are his Supervisor and his Benefactor, meaning that his Herculean weekly efforts to save the galaxy are never really appreciated.
    I agree with these. Sometimes McKay seems ESE-ish to me, but I agree he's ILE as his character is all about "I have super Ne... oh, and Fi PoLR." I especially agree that Weir sees McKay as an irresponsible child. I think that she also finds him annoying and tiresome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    BTW, there was at least one other thread that I know of, made awhile ago, about a SGA character: Col. Caldwell. He seems ESTj to me.

    I'm not sure of Sheppard as ESTj; there's something off about that typing, though I can't put my finger on it. Maybe he's too, um, settled. And Beckett might be ISFp. He has a caregiver-y attitude toward most people, but in a sweet, not-all-over-the-place way.
    I agree with these too. I like the idea of Beckett as SEI and Caldwell as LSE. There are issues with Beckett. Sometimes I wonder if he's IEE or something. He seems like an irrational (in the Socionics sense) busy body going about tending to all those in need. But he's very laid back towards everyone it seems. He is equally friendly and welcoming in manner to basically everyone else. He smooths things over well. And he has apparently a great relationship with McKay.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krig the Viking View Post
    I'm up to Season 4 now, and I keep coming back to ESTp for Ronon. He seems really quiet and almost shy for an ESTp, but I think his ESTp-ness comes out more when there's other Satedans around -- they all seem quite Beta to me. It's still a very tentative typing though. For one thing that would make him a Conflictor to Weir, who I've typed as INFj.
    Well, I think that Ronon and Weir as conflictors makes sense. I think that neither of them understand the other in the least. It's like dealing with an alien from another world. I think Weir is wary of how Ronon immediately reacts and goes off half cocked and perhaps that she thinks he's a little reckless, simple and crude. But she knows he is well meaning and a good person, and she respects him for his strengths. I think that Ronon often disagrees with some of Weir's decisions, that she isn't being show-of-force enough about things. But he knows that Weir is deeply intuitive and that she may have a big picture in mind that he can't see or understand and that things often turn out in the end in a way that works. She mystifies him entirely and he doesn't understand her at all, as he said in The Long Goodbye. I do think that Ronon comes out later in the series as a highly sensitive SLE, and occasionally he even seems a little SEI-ish to me, but on the whole, I think it's a great typing for his character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Logos View Post
    Niffweed typed her as ESE. I am still trying to figure it out, since again, there is something intuitively off about her being ESI. Sam Carter: IEE.
    I can see Teyla as ESE. I definitely see an Si focus. I think Teyla expresses the more spiritual side of Si. She exudes calm. I might have seen her more as SEI until Season 4 when she becomes engulfed in the magical baby arc and the story of her missing people. In episodes like Missing, The Queen and The Prodigal it becomes quite clear to me that Teyla seems like an ESE. One confusion with her is she's supposed to be the sort of Teal'c character in the Pegasus galaxy. And she and Teal'c do seem to have this Si-ness in common as apparently do many of the quaint peoples in Stargate. They live in small village groups in the forest and speak in this peaceful way honoring the simple things in life or something.

    Someone had Keller as SEI and I'm inclined to agree with that as well. Keller seems like an Ne type sometimes though. Sometimes she seems Se PoLR to me. It's all very warped. But I'm okay lumping her into the SEI typing. I think that her interactions with Ronon in Seasons 4-5 kind of point to her not valuing Se (she doesn't like Ronon's half-cocked way of doing everything either and seems to want to find ways to go around him) and I feel that she acts a lot like her Alpha SF character in Firefly/Serenity still in terms of her expressive emotiveness. I think that she could be a sciencey SEI nerd who often seems largely like an intuitive.

    PS: I think that botonist character who was in a few episodes is also Alpha SF. I wonder if the producers/writers are mostly Ne types themselves because I really feel we're looking at certain ideals of female characters especially with regard to McKay's love interests.

    Regarding Sheppard, Niffweed's list had ESI and I think that makes sense more so than LSE. I'm not sure I see this respectful duality between Weir and Sheppard. I think Sheppard is more inclined to do everything his way and explain it to Weir later (he is inclined to take charge even though he's not in charge and Weir can't fully hold him at bay). I think that Weir experiences some stress over this. She really has to put out a lot of effort to not be walked all over and I think that Sheppard is inclined to walk all over her, not for bad reasons, but because he feels protective of her and I think he feels that sometimes he must override her orders. I think he respected Col. Carter more than Weir (and he in fact said so, which the writers could have put in to speak to Carter's greatness or Sheppard's loyalty/regard, but um, still, he said it) and Carter is actually much better at putting her foot down and making it clear that she calls the shots. Anyway I perceive a sort of resistance between Weir and Sheppard even though they relate well and are obviously good friends. Regarding Sheppard as ESI I think that sometimes he definitely seems ESI to me, but other times he seems a bit logical > ethical and I suppose I just see this as his military training. He's actually somewhat similar to O'Neil imo only more sensitive and vulnerable (occassionally he seems ILI-ish to me).

    But I am floored regarding his lack of sympathy for Todd. Obviously I shouldn't be running things but um I think Todd was sometimes trying to be something a little more akin to friends and I probably wouldn't have responded by being totally insensitive or unsympathetic (but I understand Todd feels a bond with Sheppard that Sheppard does not at all feel). It's very pragmatic and businesslike of Sheppard to be so cold to Todd (and well, I guess Sheppard simply dislikes Todd, possibly because he's a wraith). But if he had been a little more reciprocal maybe they could have avoided the First Contact/Lost Tribe fiasco. Todd obviously felt alienated and betrayed by his enemies and over-reacted (well given the threat of the Aterro device perhaps it was not an over-reaction as at that point it no longer mattered who did what, only that the what needed to be shut off asap and in Todd's view at any cost). He didn't have enough to create any sense of trust. He couldn't afford to believe the humans. I did think he believed Sheppard when they finally talked, but everyone imo ignores Todd's little signals or moments where they might be able to reach him and distill a little of the growing baggage. But of course they couldn't afford to trust him either.

    Of course, in the end it won't matter probably (I mean at the end of the day Todd is a wraith, so why bother). This is all because I happen to like Todd (foolishly). But it almost feels as if Sheppard totally forgot that Todd restored his life when he didn't have to (although I mean if I had been fed on by Todd I'm sure in the aftermath I would feel not grateful but more like I barely got out of a serious scrape with a wraith with my life... perhaps this is a problem of viewer perspective vs. that of one actually living the events). And Sheppard obviously hasn't forgotten since he's willing to talk to Todd. Anyway, in a continuation of my foolish views of wanting to see Todd as good, I think felt that he himself took steps to try to mend things in Enemy at the Gate. I thought he responded to Sheppard being at the end of his rope and realized this was a breaking point and I think that he was interested in trying to fix things a little (of course it was kind of in his best interest, but I felt he was being sensitive in his own way). And I mean at this point where Todd had tried to kill half the SGA team I'm sure I'd be feeling basically at the end of my rope as well. I mean how can you reconcile that. Todd crossed a line--if he crossed it once, he'll cross it again (and everyone knew there was the risk he might cross it anyway). He would have to spend a lot of time and action to demonstrate otherwise (and it would be foolish to go there with him). I just feel a great opportunity with Todd was lost and I suppose that I feel it could have been avoided. Had they had a better "relationship" with Todd maybe he wouldn't have tried to kill half their people but would have let them do things their way. But I feel all of the ramifications and emotional consequences of Todd's actions aren't entirely lost on him.

    I think I'm going to conclude that Todd is perhaps EIE or ILE or LIE, and if none of those, then SLE or LSI.
    Last edited by inumbra; 03-24-2012 at 12:53 AM.

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    I would marry Beckett. Not that that means as much coming from me as it does most people, lol.

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