Is his face stuck in that pose?
I guess that's what happens when you reach spiritual enlightenment.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Wayne Dyer's type: he's an idiot.
My sister recommended that I read "Pulling your own strings". I think this is a typical example of the average self-help book: it tells you about situation A, which bad behaviors and psychological effects go with it, and situation B, in which you do all the good things, which effects in feeling good. His message: just do B!!. He does not, however, explain how to change your behavioral patterns from A to B, which typically is not done instantly. People do not change overnight, and typically need to go though a few totally different phases in order to achieve change. That, he doesn't explain, which makes it, imho, a completely worthless self-help book.
With every page I read, I got more angry. I think it was, what socionicst would call, a very Ti approach to therapy. LSI vibe.
I have a really hard time seeing this guy as having a Ne PoLR.I think it was, what socionicst would call, a very Ti approach to therapy. LSI vibe.
Nothing will prevent growth more than thinking there's something wrong with where you're at now (or where you were ever at).
Detach yourself from the outcome and just focus on the feelings of peace and harmony and security (or whatever) that you intend to manifest. The details will take care of themselves.
One of the biggest points that he focuses on is accepting responsibility for yourself. Everything in your life, including people, events, circumstances, etc. are manifestations of your state of being and the way you internally process things. The way you experience your life is your decision alone, and if you choose to focus on the negative things or things you don't want, you'll manifest more of those things. If you choose to instead to internally experience peace and gratitude no matter what is going on, you'll manifest harmony and abundance in your life.
If I had to toss out a type on this guy, I'd go ENFp. He reminds me an awful lot of my life coach friend in terms of the things he talks about and how he goes about it, especially one book he lent me "There's a Spiritual Solution to Every Problem" or something along those lines. At some point he [Dyer] brings in the physics of light/energy to make his analogy, which struck me as an intuitive approach (even if I thought the way he went about it was a little hokey and certainly wouldn't win the hearts or minds of most thinkers).
Unfortunately, I didn't make it past page 11, so it's difficult to say. I would at least hazard that he's an NF of some sort. Intuitive at the very least. As far as an overall feel, I wouldn't say that I disliked the guy but it did seem like he tried too hard in certain respects, even though I honestly believe he has a desire to help others. I could see delta as a possibility.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
ENFp is a good guess. Anything else than one of the N types is not.
who is wayne dyer?
I'm sure you already checked, but:
Also, he probably has some Youtube stuff also, though I've never heard him live before.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
He basically says: "these are the rules, stick by them and you'll be happy!" Rule-based schemas, which I think is Ti. I can see how it would work for Ti based people in particular and Te/Ti based people in general.
But anyway, you say you can't see him having an Ne-POLR. What do you think his type is? Certainly not ENFp, that book lacks any sort of compassion. Of course, I'm assuming his style of writing reflects his psychology. I think his style of writing is very harsh.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
Originally Posted by Gilly
I took the trouble if watching some of his videos, and he's definitively not IEE, not by my standards, not by comparison to what I seen people here regard as IEEs. I can not however, exclude the possibility of LIE, but I still see to much of an adherance to 'laws' (Ti) and a natural commanding presence (Se).
As to Ne: he adds nothing new to whatever philosophy he's talking about at the time (compare this to e.g. Expat, an LIE who is able to come up with 'new' stuff out of the blue), also, his approach does not deal with multiple possibilities, exceptions to the rules etc.etc., especially for a guy of his age: an ILE or IEE of his age and his experience would have a much more complex understanding and try to communicate that. I can't see Ne as an 1st, 2nd or 8th function. Not in his book, not in the videos.
Also, his Fe switches on and off a bit too consciously I think.
Self-help books suck. The more I read that patronizing crap the more I want to kill myself. If you really want help, you'd see a real person face-to-face and you'd actually do actions instead of just reading about them.
I can't stand that guy who writes those Kabbalah books either.
He talks about a woman he counseled who was saying that she needed to figure out what was blocking her from growing and improving herself, and he said that the block is that she thinks there's a block. Sounds too simplistic... someone said that to me once and I was like "no, there is something, there has to be a reason". The message regarding that is that focusing on the reason, whether you're trying to find it or fix it or whatever, is just going to keep you spinning your wheels.
Are we talking about the same guy?He basically says: "these are the rules, stick by them and you'll be happy!" Rule-based schemas, which I think is Ti.
Seriously though, I didn't here him talking about rules... The content of his audio program was entirely based around philosophy and how things work.
I do think he lacks something that ethical people seem to often have, not quite sure what it is though. I guess he has a more external approach to rational things?I can see how it would work for Ti based people in particular and Te/Ti based people in general.
Depends how you define compassion. I think he's a very compassionate person... What good are you doing anyone by encouraging them to continue feeling sorry for themselves? How is telling people that their life is their responsibility anything less than compassionate? It may not be easy to hear for someone who wants to blame their circumstances or other people for their problems and live in resentment, but those people are never going to move forward if they remain in that mindset. If it bothers them to hear it, good. They should be bothered.Certainly not ENFp, that book lacks any sort of compassion. Of course, I'm assuming his style of writing reflects his psychology. I think his style of writing is very harsh.
They will reject this message that people are trying to get across as long and they're still living with that mindset. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." And if the teacher (or lesson) is presented before the student is ready to learn that lesson, it doesn't matter how the information is presented.
And as Dyer would say, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just where they're at in their lives at that time.
(Perhaps I'm missing your point though? Like I said, I didn't actually read that book.)
Again, I completely agree with him, but he still doesn't tell people how to get from A to B. But then again, the average buyer of self-help books is not really interested in change, only in the illusion that he/she is doing something about it. His books fit that niche very nicely, I think.
You are correct, in a way. Read what I wrote in response to BulletsAndDoves for the explanation for why I say this.
I can't see any possible way that his ego block consists of two external information elements.I can not however, exclude the possibility of LIE, but I still see to much of an adherance to 'laws' (Ti) and a natural commanding presence (Se).
Is it possible that what you're seeing is rationality (and extroversion)?
Actually, he does pretty much the same thing Expat does.As to Ne: he adds nothing new to whatever philosophy he's talking about at the time (compare this to e.g. Expat, an LIE who is able to come up with 'new' stuff out of the blue)
See, Expat doesn't invent new theories, either. He just uses creates examples for and explanations of already existing theories. Whatever you're seeing as new is just a different way of explaining or looking at or applying the same traditional theory of Socionics.
also, his approach does not deal with multiple possibilities
He's constantly talking about being open to and enthusiastically exploring new possibilities, from what I've heard
I'm really not sure I understand what "rules" you're talking about? Whatever principles he discusses are just the application of various philosophies to his personal observations. The only way I can see this as being comparable to a "rule" would be if you consider things like "what goes up must come down" a "rule".exceptions to the rules etc.etc.
Please note that I'm not saying that what he talks about is exactly like the laws of gravity or thermodynamics. I'm referring to gravity as a matter of "that's just how things work", not the method of classification or means of obtaining one's perceptions related to gravity (which would have to be physical).
Wow, I'm totally lost now. Complex how? Much more complex than what?especially for a guy of his age: an ILE or IEE of his age and his experience would have a much more complex understanding and try to communicate that.
Personally, I think progress is made when complicated things are simplified into the most basic, working understanding possible.
What value is there in focusing on all of the complexities of something when it's not necessary in order to accomplish the intended result? Besides, he's read a lot of books and talked to a lot of experts about many different subjects. He's gathered information and I have no doubt that he understands the complexities of the subjects he's studied as necessary. How else would be be able to get what's important and what's not if not by gleaning information from sources he deems reliable? What would be the point in re-writing a book about each of those subjects when doing so won't communicate the ideas he's presenting in a format which can be readily processed and used by people? If you want to know more about any of the subjects he touches on or the complex information his ideas/theories/beliefs are built upon, I'm quite certain he could direct you to good sources of information and explain how each is relevant to what he discusses.
The stories he tells about his life and what he used to be like make anything other than Si as a 4th or 5th function pretty much impossible (assuming he's being truthful, of course). That would mean that Ne is either his 1st or 8th function.I can't see Ne as an 1st, 2nd or 8th function. Not in his book, not in the videos.
Really? I haven't noticed this. (And if so, wouldn't this imply that Fe is a conscious function for him?)Also, his Fe switches on and off a bit too consciously I think.
Self help: How to stop being a slut
Self improvement: How to develop healthy, lasting relationships
Self help: How to heal your physical symptoms
Self improvement: How to experience optimum health
Self help: How to control your temper
Self improvement: How to live a life of inner peace
Self help: How to fix all of the problems in your life and defeat your weaknesses
Self improvement: How to pull your own strings
See the difference? If our dominant thoughts becomes our existence, focusing on fixing or removing a problem (via "self help" or any other means) will only perpetuate the existence of that problem. The more you need it to stop, the more you will continue to need it to stop.
If you want to continue in a behavior, try to stop doing it. If you want to have healthier or more productive behaviors, focus on the desired results that having those behaviors will bring. If those images and feelings dominate your thoughts, your resulting behavior (and even circumstances) will automatically manifest the reality that you have created (and are already living) in your mind.
Personally, I've had the complete opposite experience. Maybe it's different for different people?If you really want help, you'd see a real person face-to-face and you'd actually do actions instead of just reading about them.
I don't know anything about Kabbalah.I can't stand that guy who writes those Kabbalah books either.
If so, I invite you to survey the Ti types of this forum to find which ones are fond of (or agree with) "rules" or "laws" such as these.
- "As a man thinketh, so shall he be." -the Bible (King Solomon)
- "We are what we think. All that we are arises with our thoughts. With our thoughts, we make our world." -The Dhammapada (Buddhist text)
- "A man is what he thinks all day long." -Ralph Waldo Emerson
- “The outer conditions of a person's life will always be found to reflect their inner beliefs” -James Allen
- "Circumstances do not make the man, they reveal him." -James Allen
- "A man's life is what his thoughts make of it." -Marcus Aurelius
Do you actually like what he has to say?
Like? I wouldn't say "like", but there are some parts I strongly agree with.
that's very simple reframing. it just sounds like "self improvement" is a euphemism for "self help."
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
Then you're completely missing the point.
I think you're right. My ESFj mom *needs* to spend like 5 years just talking about her problems. And as much as I'd like to do that, I know that it wouldn't get me anywhere. Again, I actually hate this- because I want to talk about things, but nothing really ever goes the way I want it to unless I take some physical action. I can talk about things rather easily and it brings me joy for awhile but it doesn't really solve the problem not that all talking is bad for me. It still must end with some kind of action plan, otherwise I get miserable.Personally, I've had the complete opposite experience. Maybe it's different for different people?
I agree with you on the self-improvement/self-help thing though. I realize I was a bit blunt in that post, so I apologize. Just bad experience is all.
About the self-help thing....
For many of us, we already know all this shit- we just don't do it. Weak/Dual-seeking will do that to a person. So maybe to some it's like we're not getting the lesson. It's just, we're not applying it or doing it.
It can be kind of humiliating when somebody talks to you like they're helping you, but when you already know when they're talking about- you just haven't done it yet. It's not a matter of simply being lazy- it's just...who we fucking are. I could have made such a wonderful life for myself with my brains and creativity, but.... there just isn't that kind of special something I need to move me along. It's not about being a bully to me and saying ' JUST FUCKING DO IT' cause that doesn't work either. Also it's about having that realization and knowing that you constantly have to build upon it is frustrating. It can never be just a grand big heavy -orgasm prize like we want it to.
I do not completely rule out that he's a charlatan who's figured out a way to make money.
Still, we haven't heard from Joy WHY she thinks he's LIE. I would like to see how she thinks Model A is manifested in his personality and behavior. I think I myself already did this, although by no means I claim I'm right in the analysis. That's why I would like to see a good Model A analysis.
I could see why this would make one want to rule Ne out for the 1st and 2nd functions, but not 7th or 8th.This is why I rule out Ne in positions 1, 2, 7 and 8 of Model A.
I don't believe that is the case, based on what I've heard of his audio program (which is like 12 CDs long ). Obviously this isn't something that can be proven or disproven though (not that any of this could be).I do not completely rule out that he's a charlatan who's figured out a way to make money.
I don't think he's LIE. I really don't know what he is. My impressions:Still, we haven't heard from Joy WHY she thinks he's LIE. I would like to see how she thinks Model A is manifested in his personality and behavior. I think I myself already did this, although by no means I claim I'm right in the analysis. That's why I would like to see a good Model A analysis.
NF > NT > SF > ST
Te/Fi > Ti/Fe
EJ > EP > IP > IJ
Positivist > Negativist
The reason I said that Si makes perfect sense as a 4th or 5th function (and little sense as anything else) is because of the way he describes Si things in his life and his attitude toward Si things.
The way he describes how he used to be sounds very much like an EJ temperament and enneagram 8w9. What does an 8 growing towards 2 sound like? http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/TypeEight.asp
When he talks about his wife, he praises things related to Ethics. He also makes her sound like an introverted sensory (though obviously they're not necessarily duals). I do think though that the things he wants/needs/appreciates most in her are related to Fi (if not, then Fe, but Fi is more likely).
To me he looks irrational and does not appear to have strong Se. (I was hoping for more VI responses in this thread than anything, but oh well.)
As you can see, these things are somewhat contradictory.
I like Wayne Dyer and have watched a lot of his programs, read his books, etc.
From the start, I've always thought he was ENTP. He has that same ENTP charm, tells self depreciating stories that way an ENTP would (like saying his own daughter criticized him when he was stressed out and yelling and said "would you buy a book from this guy?") and sometimes ENTPs are over simplistic in terms of personal problems, especially Fi ones. He has a lot of solutions, but not a lot of understanding of people as individuals.
He has that super-confident, commanding presence, but it's somewhat showy. Reminds me of my ENTP ex who would act like that at parties.
My ISFP friend also thinks he's the Best!
He sees things from his specific perspective only, and that is "right." Where as an ENFP can see things from several "right" perspectives, which makes for less straightforward messages. His messages are very straightforward without much complexity or concern for individual differences. An ENFP would be more like "this approach will probably work for you, but everyone is different" and he's more liek "this will work, because I say it will."
You can also tell he really enjoys attention when he's public speaking, likes the be the focus. (Don't get me wrong, ENFPs like this too, but tend to do it more to entertain people, versus to like, inform them on the correct way to do something, which is the vibe i get from him).
Hi! I'm an ENFP. :-)
I would add that while I can see this perspective, I don't think he necessarily thinks like that. It's more like "this will work if you're interested, because that's just how things are". It's not that he has to be right, by any means. He's just seen too much to believe otherwise. He'd be the first to tell you though that people (himself included) should always see themselves as beginners, never experts. Beginners are willing to consider or try anything and are thus in the best position to learn something new.
The former would be like standing in the hole still digging, and the later would be taking a pleasant walk.
The whole point is that your behavior and circumstances are manifestations of your thoughts. If you're thinking about how there's something wrong with you and you need to work on fixing it, you're digging. That hole wouldn't even be there in the first place if you hadn't dug it. But regardless, if you do find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Don't focus on the hole, just decide where you'd like to be and go there. It's as easy or as hard as you decide it is.