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Thread: The Model I've been working on is referred to as Model B in Russia

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    Default The Model I've been working on is referred to as Model B in Russia

    It was created by Bukalov. It seems to be fairly popular from some of the readings I've read about it, but I haven't been able to find articles that are actually on it.
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    awesome...

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    The problem is that there hasn't been a lot translated. Some articles need to be found on this.
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    boukalovs model is probably very different. but i dont know a thing about it so ill shut up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    boukalovs model is probably very different. but i dont know a thing about it so ill shut up.
    You still think my model is wrong because INTp in my model doesn't fit you. No offense to you are anything, and I know you'll probably respond with something sarcastic(I would too), but you are not INTp. For some reason people on here have the idea that INTps are the original seeking imaginative types. That is simply not the case, INTps prefer routine and normalness. And while I know your going to continue to disagree with me, I'm pretty certain I am correct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    You still think my model is wrong because INTp in my model doesn't fit you. No offense to you are anything, and I know you'll probably respond with something sarcastic(I would too), but you are not INTp. For some reason people on here have the idea that INTps are the original seeking imaginative types. That is simply not the case, INTps prefer routine and normalness. And while I know your going to continue to disagree with me, I'm pretty certain I am correct.
    Don't you find this inversion between LII and ILI strange ? Isn't normalness related to rather ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc View Post
    Don't you find this inversion between LII and ILI strange ? Isn't normalness related to rather ?
    Not in the least bit, need for normalness and originality have to do with Ni. +Ni trys to fit in. -Ni trys to be original. This is basically how all of the +/- models have it. INTjs and ENTps tend to have a strong need to be original and to be in the limelight. So do INFps and ENFjs. These types are usually rebellious in some ways(depending on which functions they are being rebellious with).
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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    You still think my model is wrong because INTp in my model doesn't fit you.

    no; i think your model is wrong because it is unsourced and insensible Ti-blather and bullshit, because it explains nothing, and because it is stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    no; i think your model is wrong because it is unsourced and insensible Ti-blather and bullshit, because it explains nothing, and because it is stupid.
    Niffweed for President because of his mastery of the English language!
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    العقيدة المسيحية

    المفاهيم الرئيسية والخطوط العريضة للعقيدة المسيحية تستعرض التجسّد الإلهي في المسيح، وصلب المسيح الذي أدّى إلى موته فدية عن المؤمنين ولرفع خطية العالم، وقيامته المجيدة فتعطي الإنسان الخاطئ فرصة للنجاة من جهنم ونوال الحياة الأبدية لأَنَّهُ هكَذَا أَحَبَّ اللهُ الْعَالَمَ حَتَّى بَذَلَ ابْنَهُ الْوَحِيدَ، لِكَيْ لاَ يَهْلِكَ كُلُّ مَنْ يُؤْمِنُ بِهِ، بَلْ تَكُونُ لَهُ الْحَيَاةُ الأَبَدِيَّةُ بتلك المفاهيم، يؤمن المسيحيون ان هذه هي الطريقة التي رتبها الله على الأرض ليتصالح البشر معه. وتعلم المسيحية أن الله أحب العالم وبذل ابنه (وليس ولده) الوحيد لكي لا يهلك كلّ من يؤمن به بل ينال الحياة الأبدية فبهذا الطريق فقط يمكن للإنسان أن ينال الحياة الأبدية وغفران الخطايا فالمسيحية ليست دين مثل باقي الديانات التي تقوم عقيدتها على وجوب العمل الفردي من عبادات وطاعات للفوز بجنّات النعيم. ففي المسيحية الله هو المبادر وهو الذي يعطي الخلاص مجاناً لمن يتوب ويطلب الغفران على أساس موت وقيامة المسيح. وتتفق طوائف المسيحية رغم تعددها على مذهب مسيحي يحتوي على النقاط الرئيسية التالية :
    • الثالوث : إله واحد يتمثل في 3 اقانيم أو كينونات في ذات الله العجيبة بحيث لا يعتبرونها مسألة جمع ك 1+1+1=3 كما في الرياضيات بل مسألة ضرب 1*1*1=1 اذا استعرنا مثال من الرياضيات كذلك، الأب، الابن، والروح القدس[1][2][3][4].وتعد من اسرار كشفها الله لهم وتقبل بالإيمان لأنها تسموا فوق العقل وإن كانت لا تناقضه فكيف يقدر المخلوق أن يدرك ذات الخالق. فالمسيحية تعلم لا أحد يعرف حقيقة من هو الله إلا من أراد الله أن يعلن له، يؤمن المسيحيون بوجد الله الآني في كلّ مكان وزمان فهو دائم الوجود وكليّ الوجود منذ الأزل وإلى الأبد قادر على كلّ شيء لا يقدر أن ينكر نفسه.
    • يعتبرون أن المسيح هو كلمة الله الموجود مع الآب منذ الأزل بل هو الله الذي ظهر في الجسد تجسد من مريم العذراء المباركة بشراً فظهر عبداً يأكل ويشرب وينام ويتألم ليقدر أن يموت عن الخطاة بجسده، فهو ليس ميخائيل وهو ليس بشرا فقط من نسل آدم ولكن الله المتجسد بشراً ولذلك أطلق الكتاب عليه اسم ( ابن الله ) و( ابن الإنسان ) ، فهو الإله الكامل والإنسان الكامل .
    • مريم العذراء ولدت المسيح وأخذ منها إنسانيته فتمم النبوة القديمة أنه هو نسل المرأة فولد من عذراء بقوة روح الله بدون أي زواج لا من الله أو من بشر، فلا يؤمن المسيحييون أن المسيح هو ولد الله فهذا يعتبر اثمٌ عظيم ولكنهم يؤمنون العذراء حبلت به عندما حلّ الروح القدس عليها.
    • يسوع هو المسيح الذي انتظره اليهود، ووريث عرش داود وسيملك على بيت داود إلى الأبد.
    • يسوع المسيح نقي من الخطايا فهو لم يخطئ وليس فيه غش، وبموته وقيامته، تصالح الله مع البشر التائبين فقط فمحى خطايا من يؤمنوا بالمسيح المصلوب ويتوبوا عن خطاياهم وينالوا بدمه غفران الخطايا، وكلّ من يرفض محبة الله يقع تحت دينونة الله العادلة
    الَّذِي يُؤْمِنُ بِالابْنِ لَهُ حَيَاةٌ أَبَدِيَّةٌ، وَالَّذِي لاَ يُؤْمِنُ بِالابْنِ لَنْ يَرَى حَيَاةً بَلْ يَمْكُثُ عَلَيْهِ غَضَبُ اللهِ فالخلاص ليس لكل الناس ولا لكل البشرية بل لمن يؤمن.
    • سيأتي يسوع ثانيةً على السحاب ليختطف الكنيسة التي هي جماعة المؤمنين اي المؤمنين به ليكونوا معهُ كل حين في السماء .
    • يؤمن المسيحيون الغربيون ان الإنجيل كلام الله وكذلك المسيحيون الشرقيون وبذلك يتّفق كل من الشرق والغرب المسيحي بقدسية الإنج

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    I see your copy and paste Arabic skills are even better! Just what a leader of the Western World needs.
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    Help me leave behind some reasons to be missed."

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    no; i think your model is wrong because it is unsourced and insensible Ti-blather and bullshit, because it explains nothing, and because it is stupid.
    2nding this about hitta's "model."

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    Use Babelfish, then translate it yourself into comprehensive stuff. This should be easy for you hitta if it's the same model you use, because you'll have an understanding of it.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    العقيدة المسيحية

    المفاهيم الرئيسية والخطوط العريضة للعقيدة المسيحية تستعرض التجسّد الإلهي في المسيح، وصلب المسيح الذي أدّى إلى موته فدية عن المؤمنين ولرفع خطية العالم، وقيامته المجيدة فتعطي الإنسان الخاطئ فرصة للنجاة من جهنم ونوال الحياة الأبدية لأَنَّهُ هكَذَا أَحَبَّ اللهُ الْعَالَمَ حَتَّى بَذَلَ ابْنَهُ الْوَحِيدَ، لِكَيْ لاَ يَهْلِكَ كُلُّ مَنْ يُؤْمِنُ بِهِ، بَلْ تَكُونُ لَهُ الْحَيَاةُ الأَبَدِيَّةُ بتلك المفاهيم، يؤمن المسيحيون ان هذه هي الطريقة التي رتبها الله على الأرض ليتصالح البشر معه. وتعلم المسيحية أن الله أحب العالم وبذل ابنه (وليس ولده) الوحيد لكي لا يهلك كلّ من يؤمن به بل ينال الحياة الأبدية فبهذا الطريق فقط يمكن للإنسان أن ينال الحياة الأبدية وغفران الخطايا فالمسيحية ليست دين مثل باقي الديانات التي تقوم عقيدتها على وجوب العمل الفردي من عبادات وطاعات للفوز بجنّات النعيم. ففي المسيحية الله هو المبادر وهو الذي يعطي الخلاص مجاناً لمن يتوب ويطلب الغفران على أساس موت وقيامة المسيح. وتتفق طوائف المسيحية رغم تعددها على مذهب مسيحي يحتوي على النقاط الرئيسية التالية :
    • الثالوث : إله واحد يتمثل في 3 اقانيم أو كينونات في ذات الله العجيبة بحيث لا يعتبرونها مسألة جمع ك 1+1+1=3 كما في الرياضيات بل مسألة ضرب 1*1*1=1 اذا استعرنا مثال من الرياضيات كذلك، الأب، الابن، والروح القدس[1][2][3][4].وتعد من اسرار كشفها الله لهم وتقبل بالإيمان لأنها تسموا فوق العقل وإن كانت لا تناقضه فكيف يقدر المخلوق أن يدرك ذات الخالق. فالمسيحية تعلم لا أحد يعرف حقيقة من هو الله إلا من أراد الله أن يعلن له، يؤمن المسيحيون بوجد الله الآني في كلّ مكان وزمان فهو دائم الوجود وكليّ الوجود منذ الأزل وإلى الأبد قادر على كلّ شيء لا يقدر أن ينكر نفسه.
    • يعتبرون أن المسيح هو كلمة الله الموجود مع الآب منذ الأزل بل هو الله الذي ظهر في الجسد تجسد من مريم العذراء المباركة بشراً فظهر عبداً يأكل ويشرب وينام ويتألم ليقدر أن يموت عن الخطاة بجسده، فهو ليس ميخائيل وهو ليس بشرا فقط من نسل آدم ولكن الله المتجسد بشراً ولذلك أطلق الكتاب عليه اسم ( ابن الله ) و( ابن الإنسان ) ، فهو الإله الكامل والإنسان الكامل .
    • مريم العذراء ولدت المسيح وأخذ منها إنسانيته فتمم النبوة القديمة أنه هو نسل المرأة فولد من عذراء بقوة روح الله بدون أي زواج لا من الله أو من بشر، فلا يؤمن المسيحييون أن المسيح هو ولد الله فهذا يعتبر اثمٌ عظيم ولكنهم يؤمنون العذراء حبلت به عندما حلّ الروح القدس عليها.
    • يسوع هو المسيح الذي انتظره اليهود، ووريث عرش داود وسيملك على بيت داود إلى الأبد.
    • يسوع المسيح نقي من الخطايا فهو لم يخطئ وليس فيه غش، وبموته وقيامته، تصالح الله مع البشر التائبين فقط فمحى خطايا من يؤمنوا بالمسيح المصلوب ويتوبوا عن خطاياهم وينالوا بدمه غفران الخطايا، وكلّ من يرفض محبة الله يقع تحت دينونة الله العادلة
    الَّذِي يُؤْمِنُ بِالابْنِ لَهُ حَيَاةٌ أَبَدِيَّةٌ، وَالَّذِي لاَ يُؤْمِنُ بِالابْنِ لَنْ يَرَى حَيَاةً بَلْ يَمْكُثُ عَلَيْهِ غَضَبُ اللهِ فالخلاص ليس لكل الناس ولا لكل البشرية بل لمن يؤمن.
    • سيأتي يسوع ثانيةً على السحاب ليختطف الكنيسة التي هي جماعة المؤمنين اي المؤمنين به ليكونوا معهُ كل حين في السماء .
    • يؤمن المسيحيون الغربيون ان الإنجيل كلام الله وكذلك المسيحيون الشرقيون وبذلك يتّفق كل من الشرق والغرب المسيحي بقدسية الإنج
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    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17
    no; i think your model is wrong because it is unsourced and insensible Ti-blather and bullshit, because it explains nothing, and because it is stupid.
    +10

    hitta doesn't even have a model. he took gulenko's idea of +/- and made superficial personality descriptions based on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95 View Post
    clever, niffweed. but perhaps too clever. one translation error and you may start an international incident.
    (insert emoticon for wry amusement here)

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    Quote Originally Posted by strrrng View Post
    +10

    hitta doesn't even have a model. he took gulenko's idea of +/- and made superficial personality descriptions based on them.

    WTF I use a model. BTW, you tend to flipflop your opinion a lot don't ya?
    Model X Will Save Us!

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    People are missing the true nature of Hitta's theory. His theory is not scientific so much as it is political: he is attempting to spread the use of +/- and it is the very concept that it -SHOULD- be spread that is his fundamental postulate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    People are missing the true nature of Hitta's theory. His theory is not scientific so much as it is political: he is attempting to spread the use of +/- and it is the very concept that it -SHOULD- be spread that is his fundamental postulate.
    That's all very well, but why should we care in the least about his political goals?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    That's all very well, but why should we care in the least about his political goals?
    I meant politics of a more abstract kind, the question of one's relationship to the social drives of the masses: the macropolitical climate. Hitta is basically arguring for the Left: he sees that great progress has been made in the understanding of Model A (Model B), but he observes that very few people are actually using this progress effectively, or even aware of it. So he takes it upon himself to introduce these facts that are of great quality and great abundance to others on a mass scale. Others make the ideas: he is the herald of their arrival.

    At the same time, he is seeking to offer his own contributions, but he is unable to observe that he has allowed himself to become too abstracted... he has fallen into the trap of Jung, and is using words like "original" and "routine-loving" to describe specific traits, when in reality these words have a variety of meanings all and he needs to narrow his terminology.

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    At any rate, the issue is that we know now that hitta got the core elements of his model from some pages that the former owner of this site put up, plus a few quotes here and there by Gulenko. So, if Jimmy got his material from Bukalov, that's useful news. I don't see any reason to think that hitta's not telling the truth about that. The question now is how to get the original material and find out for certain what it actually says. Boulakov is a respected Socionist; we should find out what his particular model really is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta
    WTF I use a model. BTW, you tend to flipflop your opinion a lot don't ya?
    ok, you use it. that's correct. I don't really flip-flop...I mean, there will always be new information, but still...I think the general idea of +/- is valid, but I don't like your descriptions. I thought gulenko's article about the quadras over at socionics.us was very good.

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    These models seem to progress...in the wrong direction perhaps? I wonder what model F will look like.

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    Models are simply ways to arrange people, thus completely arbitrary. That they are well structured doesn't mean that they are about real things (such as imaginary/abstract constructions like the functions).
    [] | NP | 3[6w5]8 so/sp | Type thread | My typing of forum members | Johari (Strengths) | Nohari (Weaknesses)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
    Models are simply ways to arrange people, thus completely arbitrary. That they are well structured doesn't mean that they are about real things (such as imaginary/abstract constructions like the functions).
    *smacks mikemex upside the head for doubting Ti AGAIN*

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    Quote Originally Posted by hitta View Post
    You still think my model is wrong because INTp in my model doesn't fit you. No offense to you are anything, and I know you'll probably respond with something sarcastic(I would too), but you are not INTp. For some reason people on here have the idea that INTps are the original seeking imaginative types. That is simply not the case, INTps prefer routine and normalness. And while I know your going to continue to disagree with me, I'm pretty certain I am correct.

    *sigh*
    Last edited by UDP; 02-01-2008 at 06:57 AM. Reason: many reasons, mostly refraining from going down a road I see no utility in going down - a waste of time
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    For some reason people on here have the idea that INTps are the original seeking imaginative types. That is simply not the case, INTps prefer routine and normalness.
    What you're missing, Hitta, is that those behaviors are not mutually exclusive. Seeking normalness, an INTp may seek the creation of a new, original means of creating normality.

    What you're suggesting by this statement, is that there are no INTps who engage themselves in the formulation of strategy, which is absurd.
    Last edited by tcaudilllg; 02-01-2008 at 09:41 AM.

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    OK, what is Model B? I've seen enough about it to want to look into it, but not enough to have much idea what it is.



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