Different flavours of SLEs

[XoX]

Ok,

In mercutio's typing thread there was some talk about different kind of SLEs.

Enneagram 3 SLE
Enneagram 7 SLE
Enneagram 8 SLE

Well, at least those. Perhaps even others. And then in socionics there are ESTp-Se, ESTp-"Neutral" and ESTp-Ti subtypes. Basically.

So does anyone have personal experience of all these different kinds of SLEs? Like how the subtypes match with the enneagram types and how these people differ in behavior and general "feel" etc.

[Expat]

I think it's more accurate to say that all ESTps will have a bit of 7 and of 8 in them. To the extent that there are subtypes, I would expect Se-ESTps to be more like 7, and Ti-ESTps, more like 8.

I can see why some ESTps would appear to be 3s to outside observers; however, I wonder if any ESTp who really understand the enneagram would think that 3 makes more sense than 7 or 8.

[Blaze]

my ex is an 8. to me they're not 3's. 3's care too much what other people think, and SLE doesn't care. i even think 7 is pushing it, since 7's are more fear-driven. SLE's are aggression-driven, not fear driven.

[FDG]

Some of them smell of roses, some of them smell of crap, SLE females vagina also comes in many flavors I gues...

Anyway I haven't seen a SLE 3 around really. Most of the people that could look like that are simply male ENFjs posing as ESTps. The SLEs I know are 7w8, 8w7 and 8w9.

[zenbrat]

I have observed SLE-Ti as 7w8 and SLE-Se as 7w6.

7w6 matches Gulenko's description of ESTp on socionics.com.

7w8 matches the Filatova and Stratievskaya SLE descriptions here.

I cannot say that I've known a 3 SLE. They typically turn out to be ENTp's.

I still think SLE 8's are mistyping themselves. Enneagram 8 seems more Delta than Beta. There is a similar focus on power in both 8 and Beta, but Delta is more about power over self and self-serving agendas - independence, maintaining resources, etc - which is the primary motivation of type 8. Delta seems to draw a few things into/around themselves for sufficiency (like a wagon circle), whereas Beta seeks power over others and the environment in an expansive (outward, grasping) sort of way.

[XoX]

So..from what I gather SLE-Ti is the more dominant one??? Where SLE-Se is more mobile but also less "8" and more about just having fun. umm..that's news.

[aestrivex]

I have observed SLE-Ti as 7w8 and SLE-Se as 7w6.

7w6 matches Gulenko's description of ESTp on socionics.com.

7w8 matches the Filatova and Stratievskaya SLE descriptions here.

I cannot say that I've known a 3 SLE. They typically turn out to be ENTp's.

I still think SLE 8's are mistyping themselves. Enneagram 8 seems more Delta than Beta. There is a similar focus on power in both 8 and Beta, but Delta is more about power over self and self-serving agendas - independence, maintaining resources, etc - which is the primary motivation of type 8. Delta seems to draw a few things into/around themselves for sufficiency (like a wagon circle), whereas Beta seeks power over others and the environment in an expansive (outward, grasping) sort of way.

youre an idiot.

[XoX]

youre an idiot.

It is time you learn to express yourself in a more sophisticated way. Trust me. It really is. Like "you are wrong because..."

[implied]

no, no, "you're an idiot," is just fine.

[XoX]

no, no, "you're an idiot," is just fine.

Well it is technically fine for me personally. However it is not informative at all and also prevents him from reaching his full potential. Yes it does.

[Ezra]

I think the mistake made with correlating Threes with SLEs is made my those who associate the Oldham Self-Confident style with the SLE, as it is foolishly correlated with on the16types types view.

SLE correlates best with Eights. Of course many Sevens are SLEs, but I think Eight fits even better. A lot of misconception about ESTP equating to SLE flies in, meaning ESTP Sevens call themselves SLEs, when they're probably more like ESFPs.

I still think SLE 8's are mistyping themselves. Enneagram 8 seems more Delta than Beta. There is a similar focus on power in both 8 and Beta, but Delta is more about power* over self and self-serving agendas - independence, maintaining resources**, etc - which is the primary motivation of type 8. Delta seems to draw a few things into/around themselves for sufficiency (like a wagon circle), whereas Beta seeks power over others and the environment in an expansive*** (outward, grasping) sort of way.

*Incorrect. Power dynamics are related to Se. Delta devalues Se. Beta values Se. Hence, Beta is more about power.
**I think this is more related to the self-preservationist variant Eight, as opposed to all Eights.
***How is this kind of behaviour not Eight-like, especially for an 8w7?

[marooned]

I think Se is about these sorts of power dynamics (and this is not an all-encompassing list or anything):

- Hierarchies... who has more authority, who's on top, who's in charge (essentially who has the power in what situations)

- Who's ahead? Who's winning? Who has the upper hand? The better position?

- Also (pertaining to the above), innate understanding of how to get in a better position, how to manage the power dynamics, how to exercise control, etc.

- Territory... who possesses what? where are the boundaries?

- Force... how much force needs to be applied to push something (I'm speaking more metaphorically). How much force or pressure can something take?

- Innate understanding of strength and weakness... (related to the above)

(I'm out of thoughts atm)

Edit: I think what I mean (to frame it better) is that Se is "aware" of all this stuff, and good with managing it.

[zenbrat]

niffweed, you rarely have any worthwhile input to the discussion.

If you disagree, then prove me wrong, idiot. If you can't, shut the fuck up.

[zenbrat]

I think Se is about these sorts of power dynamics (and this is not an all-encompassing list or anything):

- Hierarchies... who has more authority, who's on top, who's in charge (essentially who has the power in what situations)

- Who's ahead? Who's winning? Who has the upper hand? The better position?

- Also (pertaining to the above), innate understanding of how to get in a better position, how to manage the power dynamics, how to exercise control, etc.

- Territory... who possesses what? where are the boundaries?

- Force... how much force needs to be applied to push something (I'm speaking more metaphorically). How much force or pressure can something take?

- Innate understanding of strength and weakness... (related to the above)

(I'm out of thoughts atm)

Edit: I think what I mean (to frame it better) is that Se is "aware" of all this stuff, and good with managing it.

This is correct....

I think the mistake made with correlating Threes with SLEs is made my those who associate the Oldham Self-Confident style with the SLE, as it is foolishly correlated with on the16types types view.

SLE correlates best with Eights. Of course many Sevens are SLEs, but I think Eight fits even better. A lot of misconception about ESTP equating to SLE flies in, meaning ESTP Sevens call themselves SLEs, when they're probably more like ESFPs.



*Incorrect. Power dynamics are related to Se. Delta devalues Se. Beta values Se. Hence, Beta is more about power.
**I think this is more related to the self-preservationist variant Eight, as opposed to all Eights.
***How is this kind of behaviour not Eight-like, especially for an 8w7?

This is not....

Ezra... (sigh)... you still do not grasp the nature of E8. Or Se for that matter. You WANT them to be powerful and dominating because you NEED to feel that way about yourself. Neither is a true case.

[mikemex]

Se is the opposite of Ne, ok? If Ne is divergent thinking, then Se is convergent thinking.

Ne types change themselves to cope with problems. Se types change the environment to adapt to themselves.

[munenori2]

I kind of think ezra and Herzy are entertaining. Does that mean I'm not an INFj?

[munenori2]

Se is the opposite of Ne, ok? If Ne is divergent thinking, then Se is convergent thinking.

Ne types change themselves to cope with problems. Se types change the environment to adapt to themselves.

The underlined part seems to define the animosity between my roommate and I.

[marooned]

...but Delta is more about power over self and self-serving agendas - independence, maintaining resources, etc - which is the primary motivation of type 8. Delta seems to draw a few things into/around themselves for sufficiency (like a wagon circle), whereas Beta seeks power over others and the environment in an expansive (outward, grasping) sort of way.

I don't really agree with this in some ways. I don't think Delta is about power, and I don't really see Delta as self-serving. I think Delta is closer to the opposite of these things. I think Delta likes to find ways to resolve things *without* claiming a power differential, likes to even out power dynamics, doesn't value or think in terms of power dynamics. Beta is the quadra more likely to be about self-serving agendas (of the two). Anyway, I can see this turning into a semantics issue...

I also don't know that Beta is about seeking power over others, or conquering others, or expanding its power outwards to control the environment and others. Yes those sorts of things would be Se qualities... but even though things like power and conquering are more connected with Se than any of the other IM elements, I don't think that means that an Se valuing quadra necessarily values conquest. Se could be as easily used to empower others as it could be to over-power them. Valuing Se is just having that sort of understanding of things... what to do with it is a choice and not a quadra characteristic. It's really hard to get into it though, because who doesn't value self-empowerment? Somewhere I think I've strayed outside the realm of what Se covers in this.

Anyway, I don't know very much about the enneagram so I have no opinion on that part of the discussion.

Originally Posted by mikemex View Post
Se is the opposite of Ne, ok? If Ne is divergent thinking, then Se is convergent thinking.

Ne types change themselves to cope with problems. Se types change the environment to adapt to themselves.

This is interesting. I think this makes sense (within limits).

[Ezra]

Ezra... (sigh)... you still do not grasp the nature of E8. Or Se for that matter. You WANT them to be powerful and dominating because you NEED to feel that way about yourself. Neither is a true case.

Completely wrong. Eights are described by pretty much every source as powerful and dominating people. I don't need to feel that way, I don't want to feel that way, I just am.

[Ezra]

Ruff ruff!

That's it; good girl.

[machintruc]

SLE +?+ (7) : friendly
SLE +?0 (3) : tough-minded
SLE +?- (8) : hostile

[Suomea]

I think Se is about these sorts of power dynamics (and this is not an all-encompassing list or anything):

- Hierarchies... who has more authority, who's on top, who's in charge (essentially who has the power in what situations)

- Who's ahead? Who's winning? Who has the upper hand? The better position?

- Also (pertaining to the above), innate understanding of how to get in a better position, how to manage the power dynamics, how to exercise control, etc.

- Territory... who possesses what? where are the boundaries?

These all seem like creative Ti to me.

[marooned]

These all seem like creative Ti to me.

Why just creative Ti? And then, what is Se to you?