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Thread: ESTp frustrated with INFp dual (IEI-SLE)

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    Thumbs down ESTp frustrated with INFp dual (IEI-SLE)

    OK...well, as some of u know I come on here from time to time...when I do have it, and post some random retardedness about relationships...generally questions...about why my duals are stupid?

    Well, I've been semi-involved with a retarded INFp for 5 weeks...super short period of time, but the first two weeks we've known each other felt like two yrs...really werid...

    We had a little discussion and it was determined on his part we wouldnt date due to the fact that he's uber busy. I kinda think it's bullshit...but none the less..after we had that convo we decided to stay buddies...but only the oppostite happend...he completely turned and started behaving like we were involved or something...he was going against everything he said...and the moment i fall for his stupid shit ill feel like i get fucked over (for absolutely no reason) and then ill finally accept it and come to terms with that i dont have a chance with this totally awsome (but uber frustarting cuz i want him/cant have him) INFp.

    Then he'll go do or say something really normal....like we'll go for almost a week without talking (thats since he started school and works full time both) and then ill be like oh forget this dood he's just fucking with my head, and we'll start talking and that same instant ill fall for him....I dont get why I cant just grow a pair and forget him.

    the more we're "not dating" the more we behave like it...its really fucking annoying
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    OK...well, as some of u know I come on here from time to time...when I do have it, and post some random retardedness about relationships...generally questions...about why my duals are stupid?

    Well, I've been semi-involved with a retarded INFp for 5 weeks...super short period of time, but the first two weeks we've known each other felt like two yrs...really werid...

    We had a little discussion and it was determined on his part we wouldnt date due to the fact that he's uber busy. I kinda think it's bullshit...but none the less..after we had that convo we decided to stay buddies...but only the oppostite happend...he completely turned and started behaving like we were involved or something...he was going against everything he said...and the moment i fall for his stupid shit ill feel like i get fucked over (for absolutely no reason) and then ill finally accept it and come to terms with that i dont have a chance with this totally awsome (but uber frustarting cuz i want him/cant have him) INFp.

    Then he'll go do or say something really normal....like we'll go for almost a week without talking (thats since he started school and works full time both) and then ill be like oh forget this dood he's just fucking with my head, and we'll start talking and that same instant ill fall for him....I dont get why I cant just grow a pair and forget him.

    the more we're "not dating" the more we behave like it...its really fucking annoying
    Haha.... that's why INFps and ESTps are totally ment for each other. Basically the world plays out the way the INFp wants it to. They have no qualms about lying or acting in a way opposing to how they feel in order to manipulate a person the way they want to achieve a desired result. And at the same time they leave themselves open to be able to change their mind about a person too if they want to. I love it. It's so funny seeing ESTps getting completely whipped, seems counter intuitive, but I've seen it happen a number of times.

    P.S. This might only be a subset of INFps btw.
    Last edited by Suomea; 01-24-2008 at 07:25 PM.
    Suomea

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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    lol I'm sorry
    lol...this INFp is anything BUT retarded...I just hate the fact that he has so much power over me without even trying...hence me labeling him as retarded

    He's actually very smart, cool, colletcted, and works with disabled ppl...has a huge heart. Positive outlook..there's nothing retarded about him, except the way i feel! AHAH
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    the more we're "not dating" the more we behave like it...its really fucking annoying
    would it be better to be bored to tears?
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    would it be better to be bored to tears?
    There is a third option, too.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    There is a third option, too.
    Yeah... he might not like her but enjoys the sex with her... so... not too close but not too far either.
    "What is love?"
    "The total absence of fear," said the Master.
    "What is it we fear?"
    "Love," said the Master.

    I chose Love

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    Quote Originally Posted by ESTP View Post
    the more we're "not dating" the more we behave like it...its really fucking annoying
    Whatever his type, it seems that either it's a total irrational interaction (in socionics or otherwise), that is, any attempt at "defining" the relationship is pointless - or (sorry to say), that's his way of having a sort of cop-out -- that is, he likes the sex but at the same wants to be able to say, at any moment "I always made clear we weren't dating".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Suomea View Post
    Haha.... that's why INFps and ESTps are totally ment for each other. Basically the world plays out the way the INFp wants it to. They have no qualms about lying or acting in a way opposing to how they feel in order to manipulate a person the way they want to achieve a desired result. And at the same time they leave themselves open to be able to change their mind about a person too if they want to. I love it. It's so funny seeing ESTps getting completely whipped, seems counter intuitive, but I've seen it happen a number of times.

    P.S. This might only be a subset of INFps btw.
    Feh!! I don't know that subset!

    This phenomenon may simply illustrate the "push-pull" aspect of INFps, many of which are actually enneagram 4s as well. It's sheer ambivalence. The desired prize shouldn't be too easy, and ideally may also have some modicum of inaccessibility. Personally, I'm wary of getting too deep in general. It's not "manipulation to acheive a desired result". That would presuppose INFps actually have the focus to carefully apply pressure and tactic! Most of the time, it's probably just the tendency to be noncommittal in most situations. Open not to change my mind, but rather until I'm reasonably certain someone/something is truly what I want. To make that determination, I need to gather certain information, impressions, and above all time-testing.

    As I've stated before, I'm more comfortable in the "pursuer" role, simply because that way I know I've got the motivation to be involved.

    Then again IMO, a lot of relationship personality issues posted in this forum have to do with basic immaturity which generally isn't related to any particular type.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Whelp... seems I skipped the bit about the "sex" element being involved. In that case, the guy is just being a typical immature noncommittal guy. Keeping options open.

    What constitutes "relationship material" differs from male to male, I've found. Sometimes it's the drama of mercurial feelings and intensity, sometimes it's stability and predictability, sometimes control. Always a tendency towards familiarity in dynamic. Depends what his priority is. Seems to me that most people don't generally venture too far out of their comfort zone.

    Overall, it sounds like he wants the physical stuff but not the emotional. Been there, done that, felt yanked around and bought the t-shirt.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    This sounds exactly like one of my relationships with one of ..."them". SO frustrating I can't even put into words. I figured it had something to do with the fact he only enjoyed a make-believe relationship instead of a real one. Whenever we'd get involved, he lost interest. I ignored him, he wanted everything to do with me. I finally lost it and stopped playing the games. It's not worth it. I'd forget it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sigma View Post
    Yeah... he might not like her but enjoys the sex with her... so... not too close but not too far either.
    No, I was speaking about relationships in general, I think that was what you were referring to.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka-kitsune View Post
    Whelp... seems I skipped the bit about the "sex" element being involved. In that case, the guy is just being a typical immature noncommittal guy. Keeping options open.

    What constitutes "relationship material" differs from male to male, I've found. Sometimes it's the drama of mercurial feelings and intensity, sometimes it's stability and predictability, sometimes control. Always a tendency towards familiarity in dynamic. Depends what his priority is. Seems to me that most people don't generally venture too far out of their comfort zone.

    Overall, it sounds like he wants the physical stuff but not the emotional. Been there, done that, felt yanked around and bought the t-shirt.
    Man hater.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    I think everyone plays these games to a certain extent, though. Thru the MANY relationships i've been in, i could easily become a man hater myself, but i find it's better to turn the tables. Don't call. Be a bitch. Only talk to him for sex. Don't reveal anything about yourself. Do what you want. It works.

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    Man... why can't it just be easy

    *le sigh*
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Humans and their stupid need for love, what can ya do.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    I think everyone plays these games to a certain extent, though.
    Self-fulfilling prophecy.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    Humans and their stupid need for love, what can ya do.
    Well that's the thing most need that happy middle place. Like too little they bitch, too much they bitch, too perfect they..bitch? :/
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    I must admit, Beta NFs in general are excellent manipulators in relationships ... =[ I am very sorry to hear about your troubles though, I would actually take advice from jessica and "turn the tables" so to speak on him! Trust me, he will come running back to you and then when he does, play with him a little bit, but eventually break down and do a little sensitive, romantic talk. INFp-ESTp interaction at it's finest ... if he is a true IEI he will break down after you do this.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jessica129 View Post
    This sounds exactly like one of my relationships with one of ..."them".
    hahah

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Man... why can't it just be easy

    *le sigh*
    i think esfjs make it easy for us.

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    !!!

    Maybe the initial stages....
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Man hater.
    Yo! Pay attention!! I said typical IMMATURE noncommittal guy. Where did I imply ALL guys are immature? Geez.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    I must admit, Beta NFs in general are excellent manipulators in relationships ... =[ I am very sorry to hear about your troubles though, I would actually take advice from jessica and "turn the tables" so to speak on him! Trust me, he will come running back to you and then when he does, play with him a little bit, but eventually break down and do a little sensitive, romantic talk. INFp-ESTp interaction at it's finest ... if he is a true IEI he will break down after you do this.
    Ugh. So that's what the suggestions have come to? Advocating game playing? No wonder relationship problems just become self-perpetuating. I guess this is where I exit this thread. Buh-bye.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Yo!!! Put on your sarcasm shades!

    I know you meant immature guys.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard View Post
    Yo!!! Put on your sarcasm shades!

    I know you meant immature guys.
    I'm very sensitive about being accused of emasculation.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

    **********

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Twain
    Only kings, presidents, editors, and people with tapeworms have the right to use the editorial 'we'.

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    Why? Have you been accused of it before?

    I was kidding... see, this is why I don't joke
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    so...back on topic..

    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    I must admit, Beta NFs in general are excellent manipulators in relationships ... =[ I am very sorry to hear about your troubles though, I would actually take advice from jessica and "turn the tables" so to speak on him! Trust me, he will come running back to you and then when he does, play with him a little bit, but eventually break down and do a little sensitive, romantic talk. INFp-ESTp interaction at it's finest ... if he is a true IEI he will break down after you do this.
    It's almost funny....when the uncertainty pisses me off enough, and I do trun the tables, he'll either ignore me for a while and then just backtrack to when things were fine and dandy...or he'll get uber defesive and then the next day pretend that episode never happend. Whenever I pull away he always tries to get closer, then when I give in a little, shortly thereafter things will go back to normal.

    This all seems pretty ridiculous when I write because it's only been five weeks since I've known him...but like I said, it almost feels too long! HA
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    I swear at least once a month some poor soul comes onto these forums and starts lamenting about the retarded behavior of INFps.

    My take on the situation: He doesn't know he likes you yet. You'd think having Ni and Fe in the ego block would make us less clueless, but nope. Sometimes it takes a while for us to get through our dense skulls. The best thing to do is just to accept the retardedness - embrace it, even. Because it won't go away. When he figures out his feelings for you, you can get "serious" and spend more time with each other where you feeling comfortable being an item. Until then, please don't get too invested in him. It'll only drive you batshit crazy.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    Red face

    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    It'll only drive you batshit crazy.
    ahah seems like a short trip right now
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    There's a simple solution to this, ESTP. Come hitherto.

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I think you should just fuck the shit out of him until he can't walk away from you anymore.
    LOL
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby View Post
    I swear at least once a month some poor soul comes onto these forums and starts lamenting about the retarded behavior of INFps.

    My take on the situation: He doesn't know he likes you yet. You'd think having Ni and Fe in the ego block would make us less clueless, but nope. Sometimes it takes a while for us to get through our dense skulls. The best thing to do is just to accept the retardedness - embrace it, even. Because it won't go away. When he figures out his feelings for you, you can get "serious" and spend more time with each other where you feeling comfortable being an item. Until then, please don't get too invested in him. It'll only drive you batshit crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I think you should just fuck the shit out of him until he can't walk away from you anymore.

    Sometimes a broken pelvis is the best way to keep a man strapped down.

    This is just bad advice from a loser so.. don't listen.

    Knowing INFp's he'll prolly run away like a lil bitch
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Are you fucking kidding?


    That's what all male INFps dream about each and every night. He'll love you!


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
    Johari
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    What baby says! ^

    Your INFp guy simply is being a confused INFp guy heh. Give him time! Be patient with him. Don't expect straight communication from him this early in your relationship. He needs time to sort where things stand between you two and to understand that you are for real in a way heh. Remember to him a few weeks is only the blink of an eye in a way (his Ni sense of time).

    My guess is he is probably thinking about you all the time. He is just being a typical overly careful INFp. He doesn't want to rush things because he is thinking too much and his layers of defense (and INFp's have sooo many of those >_<) are interfering at this point.

    I must laugh a little when you describe his reaction when you 'trun the table'. INFp's are so sensitive to pressure, I picture the sensitivity of a rabbit (that doesn't mean he is a rabbit ofc but that he is as highly sensitive as one in some ways). He just bounces off so he can take a fresh look at things again. That means looking at you from a 'safer' distance heh. The 'whenever you try to pull away he tries to get closer' part is so typical too, that is the other side of the coin. He is interested in you.

    If you can, just try to relax and have a good time with him. Don't think too much or put pressure on him or yourself.
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



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    Quote Originally Posted by glamourama View Post
    LV look what you made me do I'm boycotting your posts from now on
    <nudge> Again... the joking thing

    I'm just jealous I haven't met my dual is all. Carry on
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Are you fucking kidding?


    That's what all male INFps dream about each and every night. He'll love you!
    That's true too

    The problem is that INFp's want to be comfortable with people they make love to (at least this one does). And building up a relationship of trust doesn't happen over night. But once that is established I am not sure who will exhaust whom
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



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    I must admit...the sex is out of this world!

    I've considered using him purely for it...when it comes down to it tho, the only person I will be fucking in the end is myself probably. (so to speak)
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    loooool

    yeah whatever you do dont show that you need him rather than show that you think he's cool/great. I know its really hard but yeah dont be invested in him as it will help you to continue showing your own awesomeness plus create space for him to try to get closer to you.

    This is where I'll fail as an INTj every time. Hope that i haven't suffered in vain !

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    on another note....

    my friend mentioned something about him to me the other day...he's a very confident and acomplished guy...but she says, when he's around me he almost seems intimidated sometimes?

    ive just taken it for a here and there shyness (mostly NOT tho)

    although...i do question it now??
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    uhhhh no...not right now, ive gained a pound or dozens since that pic...im not at my most attrative right now in all honesty...i dont think it has anything to do with being hot
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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    Exits, pursued by a bear. Animal's Avatar
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    Well, how is he around you, generally? If you laugh together a lot, that's a good sign. In fact, that's a very good sign, if you can get him to laugh and vice versa.

    btw, I think you could carry an extra pound (or two dozen, lol) and still be hot.
    "How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
    -- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet

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    we do laugh most of the time when we're together...he says that im like the first chick that's up to par with his wit...and its true but sometimes its soo hard to constantly be witty....he calls me turrets cuz i blab and have really high energy around him.at first..then ill calm down after he teases me for a while and the longer time we spend together i just get more and more calm, and then once im totally mellow he'll be like...what's wrong? and its nothing im just at peace, he just puts me at uber ease when im around him for long periods of time
    Yesterday I knew nothing, today I know that.

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