Enneagram & Socionics (in reply to machintruc)

[Ezra]

Right, ignoring all the bullshit about -phins, I'm going to lay out the correlations that I can REALLY see, the ones I'm think WHAT THE FUCK to, and everything in between. Seriously, I have no problem with you taking me up on any one of them. A) I practically want you to convince me I'm wrong and b) you can easily change my mind if you show me good enough evidence.


(The image uploader is shit, so you're gonna have to click the bar at the top to put it back to its originally size in order to see the correlations properly.)

Essentially, I'd be interested to hear from you if your Enneagram type and socionics type correlation I don't think it's "easy to see it work", or if I don't think it "could work".

[machintruc]

So give me videos of dudes/girls or music or whatever that have such unusual correlations :

ILE-8
SEI-7
LII-3
LII-8
ESE-4
ESE-9
SLE-1
SLE-2
LSI-5
EIE-8
SEE-1
ESI-5
SLI-7
SLI-8
LSE-5
EII-3
EII-9

[Ezra]

So give me videos of dudes/girls or music or whatever that have such unusual correlations :

ILE-8
SEI-7
LII-3
LII-8
ESE-4
ESE-9
SLE-1
SLE-2
LSI-5
EIE-8
SEE-1
ESI-5
SLI-7
SLI-8
LSE-5
EII-3
EII-9

I haven't got firm evidence, because I don't put so much time and effort into these useless correlations; they're just fun to do. Why don't you find me videos of all of your supposed correlations? Things like an LSI Seven? I mean what the fuck?

[machintruc]

I haven't got firm evidence, because I don't put so much time and effort into these useless correlations; they're just fun to do. Why don't you find me videos of all of your supposed correlations? Things like an LSI Seven? I mean what the fuck?

Things like an LII Eight ? What the f*** !? We aren't like those retarded pushy rednecks, us LII's are just cool and pacific as lambs.

[Ezra]

You're the biggest dickhead I've ever met.

Forum award givers, give machintruc for being the biggest twat that ever existed.

[machintruc]

I found an LII-8 : it's me when I drink too much coffee.

I found an LII-9 too : it's me when I'm drunk.

I don't use amphetamines, so I didn't find an LII-7 yet.

[aestrivex]

you're both stupid for assuming definite correlations, though if ezra changed all of the white spaces in his list to cyan, it would be fairly reasonable.

[Ezra]

you're both stupid for assuming definite correlations, though if ezra changed all of the white spaces in his list to cyan, it would be fairly reasonable.

Okay, from a philosophical point of view, perhaps that would make sense. Nothing is certain etc. I totally agree with you. However, for pragmatism's sake, I hardly think you'd find an SEI One. I'm willing to be £100 that if you went round every One in the world and asked them to study to find their socionics type, not one of them would say SEI.

[Mediator Kam]

I am a 2w3 myself, and I recall TheMime saying she's a 4w5?

[aestrivex]

one and SEI is not even a good example at all. i could easily see an SEI 1. frankly i could see almost any type as a one, although ILE might be a stretch.

at any rate, i don't agree with you that no ILI in the world is a type 2, for example. the world has 6 billion people. one of them is an ILI 2.

[Phaedrus]

at any rate, i don't agree with you that no ILI in the world is a type 2, for example. the world has 6 billion people. one of them is an ILI 2.

In that case it must be you. No other ILI would be so confused that he or she actually considered that possibility.

[machintruc]

In that case it must be you. No other ILI would be so confused that he or she actually considered that possibility.

I'm curious about to know what an ILI-2 actually resembles...

[Ezra]

one and SEI is not even a good example at all. i could easily see an SEI 1. frankly i could see almost any type as a one, although ILE might be a stretch.

How could you see an SEI One? For starters, what kind of One represents the IP temperament?

at any rate, i don't agree with you that no ILI in the world is a type 2, for example. the world has 6 billion people. one of them is an ILI 2.

And that's as dogmatic as my statement that none of them is an ILI Two. No Two would identify with the ILI. I bet you my life.

[Ezra]

In that case it must be you. No other ILI would be so confused that he or she actually considered that possibility.

I don't think you quite understand. It's called retaining the possibility that either possibility is a possibility.

[aestrivex]

And that's as dogmatic as my statement that none of them is an ILI Two. No Two would identify with the ILI. I bet you my life.

you lose. your execution is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon in hyde park.

[Phaedrus]

I don't think you quite understand. It's called retaining the possibility that either possibility is a possibility.

I understand perfectly well. And so do you. You know that no ILI in the world -- dead, alive, or not yet born -- can ever be a 2. It is just as impossible as a squared circle.

[machintruc]

Maybe an ILE may be a Two...

[Phaedrus]

Maybe an ILE may be a Two...

That is much more likely, since it is not totally impossible to imagine. But my guess is that no ILE in the world actually is a 2 either.

[machintruc]

That is much more likely, since it is not totally impossible to imagine. But my guess is that no ILE in the world actually is a 2 either.

They can be Nines or Sevens, then I think they can be Two.

Twos are very friendly, and ILE's are too.

[Phaedrus]

They can be Nines or Sevens, then I think they can be Two.

They can be Sevens. It is much more doubtful if they can be Nines.

Twos are very friendly, and ILE's are too.

Yes, many ILEs are friendly. But you don't need to be a Two to be friendly.

[machintruc]

You don't need to be a Two to be friendly.

No, but an extreme of friendliness would be an Intimate Two ESE

[Phaedrus]

No, but an extreme of friendliness would be an Intimate Two ESE

Yes, of course ... ...

[Ezra]

you lose. your execution is scheduled for tomorrow afternoon in hyde park.

ofgmz, teh spekttRs R aRRivd!!!!11

[normal]

Ezra, SEI can be 9, that's what we all agree i guess, but they have no wings chance in you table. Neither 8 nor 1. So, what's the point?
Can you explain it?

[Ezra]

Ezra, SEI can be 9, that's what we all agree i guess, but they have no wings chance in you table. Neither 8 nor 1. So, what's the point?
Can you explain it?

The table doesn't take wings into account. And just because a Nine that has an Eight wing can be an SEI, it doesn't mean an Eight can be an SEI.

[machintruc]

The table doesn't take wings into account. And just because a Nine that has an Eight wing can be an SEI, it doesn't mean an Eight can be an SEI.

I didn't think so for long, but now I changed my mind. Read this :

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...d.php?p=293197

If an ILE-9 exists, then an SEI-8 exists.

Rick himself is IEE-9, therefore an SLI-8 exists too.

[Phaedrus]

If an ILE-9 exists, then an SEI-8 exists.

And since there certainly are no SEI-8s, there cannot be any ILE-9s either, if your premises are true.

Rick himself is IEE-9

He is not. Rick is a 7.

[machintruc]

He is not. Rick is a 7.

How is him E7 rather than E9 ?

Whatever... Maybe Etypes just don't dualise so. EIE-2 are frequent, why aren't LSI-5 ?

http://socionist.blogspot.com/2007/0...st-man-in.html

Is that LSI dude E5 ? I think he's E1... He's not energitic enough to be E8 or E3...

Are EIE-2 actually in search of the LSI-1 perfectionist, or the LSI-3 achiever ? I don't really think they're in search for LSI-8, like an EIE-7 or an EIE-6 or even an EIE-3 may do.

However, I hope Carla Bruni is EIE...

[Phaedrus]

How is him E7 rather than E9?

Why do you want to type Rick as E9? Why isn't he E7?

[FDG]

Phaedrus is the right one in this topic.

[Ezra]

I understand perfectly well. And so do you. You know that no ILI in the world -- dead, alive, or not yet born -- can ever be a 2. It is just as impossible as a squared circle.

Right, Phaedrus, look at the difference between yours and niffweed's ways. Understand that there is definitely a difference of functional ordering here.

He, no matter how fucking stupid the possibility, is retaining the possibility that there is a chance that it could go either way; there may be no ILI Twos, but there may be some. You are making your mind up about it, because you are confident that your view that there is no such thing as an ILI Two is correct. He will always retain a sense of doubt about things, because that is his way as an ILI. You will die for your belief that there isn't an ILI Two, because you have a certain dogmatism, as do I. We're both confident in our views, and niffweed is the quintessential philosopher; he refuses to believe something without absolute factual proof. Now, there's a slight difference in thought between me and you. I take niffweed's state of mind, and use your pragmatism. I retain a sense of doubt, but, like Hume, I "leave philosophy in the office", because it's there to be studied in my eyes, not lived (at least not until a conclusion about anything is reached e.g. we should live our lives x because of y). You, however, believe something firmly.

[Ezra]

He is not. Rick is a 7.

He did claim that, although IEEs can be Nines.

[machintruc]

Beta values - that's my bet, too. But why not a sensor? (Perhaps Sarkozy's illusionary..)

Because Bruni is too naïve to be a Sensor

[machintruc]

He did claim that, although IEEs can be Nines.

Extrotim Nines may think they're Sevens or Twos.

[machintruc]

Although I think Sarkozy video-types ENTj, as I argued on Gamma. And the photographs of him with Bruni look plausibly ENTj-ISj - their facial expressions and poses, or so I think. (I actually thought Bruni VI-ed ISFj until reading her biographical infos. Her musical career I thought better fit ISFj Si functional descriptions than ISTj, too. But the behavior elsewhere...less so.)

I still can't really imagine Sarkozy as Extrotim and/or Intuitive. Much of what he says is first-person, and he's got a "pragmatic" attitude to the world. Therefore ST rather than NT.

Besides, I still haven't encountered any -like things in his speeches. Jean-Marie Le Pen (EIE) is -creative, and seems very confident in using . Sarkozy isn't. He can't be defined as "absent-minded" or such.

Besides, according to Model Phi, he's S-N-D+. The D+ thing means that he has :

- extroverted output system (D+)
- introverted input and processing systems (S- and N-)

D+ types usually use A LOT their outputting functions (i.e. strong functions). So he has to output LOTS of material to be LIE. He does output lots of material, but not of . Even Le Pen outputs more material, and he's S+N-D0.

Therefore, I still think LSI rather than LIE, though LIE would be the least distant possibility after LSI.

[machintruc]

Outside the interview I mentioned videotyping, I haven't found much spoken material in English (hence the emphasis so far on more subjective typing factors.) However, I remember other users commenting on how much Te Sarkozy used in debate with Royal. And visually it seems she used more Se in debate, more assertive with her arguments. Where as Sarkozy seemed more scattered in rattling off information, not unlike what I noted of him in the American interview. Royal has been typed ISTj - an ISTj that I think arguably uses less Te and more Se than Sarkozy. If they are identicles, no classical subtype would account for that difference, although him being ENTj would. (Perhaps your other models can rationalize their identicleness somehow - but I'm less familiar with those.)

LIE's isn't as evident as LSI's. Hence "hidden" agenda.

Do you have examples of his ?