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Thread: Se and recklessness and impulsivity of SEEs-ESFps

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    Charismatik's Avatar
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    Default Se and recklessness and impulsivity of SEEs-ESFps

    From my almost all of my personal experiences with ESFps and from reading about Extraverted Sensation as a leading function, it seems to me that underdeveloped ESFps can be extremely dangerous to both themselves and people they know and care about. I'm sure this is true of every underdeveloped type to an extent, but for some reason Extraverted Sensation strikes me as particularly reckless and impulsive. Something about them seems even less rational and more desperate for pleasurable immediate experiences than any other type. Or am I seeing this wrong, and reading too many assumptions into patterns I've seen between the ESFps I've known best?

    Thoughts, opinions?
    ISFp <3

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    They like sex, I love sex, we're buddies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charismatik View Post
    From my almost all of my personal experiences with ESFps and from reading about Extraverted Sensation as a leading function, it seems to me that underdeveloped ESFps can be extremely dangerous to both themselves and people they know and care about. I'm sure this is true of every underdeveloped type to an extent, but for some reason Extraverted Sensation strikes me as particularly reckless and impulsive. Something about them seems even less rational and more desperate for pleasurable immediate experiences than any other type. Or am I seeing this wrong, and reading too many assumptions into patterns I've seen between the ESFps I've known best?

    Thoughts, opinions?
    wouldn't this analysis then include estp's as well then since they also have Se in the leading position?

    myself, i think EP in general is impulsive and reckless. probably the least impulsive and reckless is enfp and the most is esfp, with estp and entp in the middle somewhere. i don't think you can divorce the creative function from the leading function since they work as a team.

    but esfp's would be confident in their relationships i spose, so perhaps their perception is that the choices they make are not as risky as these choices would seem to other types to be. is this what you mean?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charismatik View Post
    From my almost all of my personal experiences with ESFps and from reading about Extraverted Sensation as a leading function, it seems to me that underdeveloped ESFps can be extremely dangerous to both themselves and people they know and care about. I'm sure this is true of every underdeveloped type to an extent, but for some reason Extraverted Sensation strikes me as particularly reckless and impulsive. Something about them seems even less rational and more desperate for pleasurable immediate experiences than any other type. Or am I seeing this wrong, and reading too many assumptions into patterns I've seen between the ESFps I've known best?

    Thoughts, opinions?
    Anyone who is too focused on too few functions in an unbalanced way is in trouble. In Socionics theory, it's actually Si that's supposedly more associated with immediate pleasurable experiences. But we only need to read the latest news about some celebrity ESFp entertainers to know that they can be out of control.

    This can be a difficult chicken-vs.-egg problem though. Is an unbalanced type unbalanced because of too much focus on the strong functions to the exclusion of all else (as Jung suggests in his original paper on psychological types), or is it some other underlying problem (e.g., manic depression, etc.) that makes people appear unbalanced in their use of functions? Perhaps it could go other way....

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    yeah britney is hard to understand these day. i'd like to hear an interpretation of her behavior from an esfp.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    I see impulsiveness as the symptom of an underdeveloped ego block - the block I associate with self-control. Therefore everyone could be more or less impulsive and reckless, but it's particulary apparent in Eps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    yeah britney is hard to understand these day. i'd like to hear an interpretation of her behavior from an esfp.
    What's there to explain: drugs.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Warlord View Post
    What's there to explain: drugs.
    yeah i kinda wonder whether there's mental illness also though.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    wouldn't this analysis then include estp's as well then since they also have Se in the leading position?

    myself, i think EP in general is impulsive and reckless. probably the least impulsive and reckless is enfp and the most is esfp, with estp and entp in the middle somewhere. i don't think you can divorce the creative function from the leading function since they work as a team.
    Nearly every ESFp I know has a messed up troubled life, this is not to say that the whole ESFp population is the same. I am surrounded by ESFps friends and relatives and it still amazes how they can get involved in really just downright stupid ideas which get them in a lot of problems and they seem not to really think about the consequences of their actions. Usually the source of their problem is love/infatuation, greed/materialism or trying to help someone out/trying to increase their popularity without thinking about how helping the person might be a very bad idea.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan View Post
    Nearly every ESFp I know has a messed up troubled life, this is not to say that the whole ESFp population is the same. I am surrounded by ESFps friends and relatives and it still amazes how they can get involved in really just downright stupid ideas which get them in a lot of problems and they seem not to really think about the consequences of their actions. Usually the source of their problem is love/infatuation, greed/materialism or trying to help someone out/trying to increase their popularity without thinking about how helping the person might be a very bad idea.
    you better check yourself before you wreck yourself!

    i feel like i should not comment on this thread as unbiased IMO as it may be because nobody would take it seriously seeing as it's coming from the source.
    ESFp-Fi sub
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    you better check yourself before you wreck yourself!

    i feel like i should not comment on this thread as unbiased IMO as it may be because nobody would take it seriously seeing as it's coming from the source.
    It is my experience with ESFps that they can be really impulsive and nearly all the ones I know have what I see as very messy, self destructive lives. Knowing what I know about these ESFps I cannot honestly take back that comment. You cannot argue with my experience unless you have some arguments to show that what I am saying is just not possible.

    I don't know you and you don't know me. If you disagree with me then that is fine but at least stick to the issue at hand and defend your position if necessary without resort to meaningless personal attacks. My comments about ESFps are not meant to be taken personally by individual ESFps. I do not know all ESFps so I can only speak about the ones I am acquinted with.

    Also, I see no issues with you putting your comments here even if it is your type being discussed, indeed it seems very desirable. Those of us who want a better understanding of your type will take your comments seriously.
    Last edited by Megan; 01-17-2008 at 04:43 AM.
    Socionics: XNFx
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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan View Post
    Nearly every ESFp I know has a messed up troubled life
    I think that what a say, IJ type might consider a messed up life can be considered as totally good by an ESFp.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    I think that what a say, IJ type might consider a messed up life can be considered as totally good by an ESFp.
    yep.

    EP temperament....we kinda push things to their limits or something....don't always like the consequences of that, but i'd be totally bored any other way.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Megan View Post
    Nearly every ESFp I know has a messed up troubled life, this is not to say that the whole ESFp population is the same. I am surrounded by ESFps friends and relatives and it still amazes how they can get involved in really just downright stupid ideas which get them in a lot of problems and they seem not to really think about the consequences of their actions. Usually the source of their problem is love/infatuation, greed/materialism or trying to help someone out/trying to increase their popularity without thinking about how helping the person might be a very bad idea.
    First of all, socionics doesn't explain the content of the person. Yes, arguably so you may be able to justify that people with weak Feeling elements also have a weak moral fabric but even then that's pushing it.

    Secondly, you failed to take into account ESFp-Fi subtypes. is a very moral element and with as their creative function, you really shouldn't generalize the entire ESFp population by saying that we are greedy, materialistic, and superficial (in greater words of course).

    Thirdly, what about ESTps? It seems to me that a lot of your argument could also be applied there, yet you seem to attack ESFps whether it be because of your own experiences, or whatever.

    Lastly, yes, it is easy for many of us on this forum to generalize an entire type's population based on the people of the type that we have met, however how large is your pool? 2-5 people? Is that really fair? I don't just blame you on this, because all of us are guilty of doing it, but you really have to try not to be so closed-minded.

    So my own opinion, I think that we can sometimes do stupid things but we are the original and true comeback kids and usually end up on our feet again in one way or another- I used to be very much like a stereotypical ESFp but life has taught me to get my shit together. Don't get me wrong, I still have my moments- your type is your type for life after all- but I have learned to adapt overall. I'm not saying this for a trophy, I'm just saying that we learn from experience, and we can learn to avoid the things that may have tripped us up, which could be said of all types.
    ESFp-Fi sub
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    Fine.

    First of all, socionics doesn't explain the content of the person. Yes, arguably so you may be able to justify that people with weak Feeling elements also have a weak moral fabric but even then that's pushing it.

    Secondly, you failed to take into account ESFp-Fi subtypes. is a very moral element and with as their creative function, you really shouldn't generalize the entire ESFp population by saying that we are greedy, materialistic, and superficial (in greater words of course).
    but is not directly related to morality, nor is any other function. is not the equivalent of morality and types are not any more moral than other types. Really why would they be given your understanding of ? I hope you are not still holding the belief that is morality after being here so long.




    Thirdly, what about ESTps? It seems to me that a lot of your argument could also be applied there, yet you seem to attack ESFps whether it be because of your own experiences, or whatever.
    I might have commented on ESTps issues but this thread is not about ESTps is it?


    Lastly, yes, it is easy for many of us on this forum to generalize an entire type's population based on the people of the type that we have met, however how large is your pool? 2-5 people? Is that really fair? I don't just blame you on this, because all of us are guilty of doing it, but you really have to try not to be so closed-minded.
    Again, I cannot speak about the whole ESFp population, only the ones I know and while I do know many, it is really only a very,very small percent of the worldwide population of ESFps.


    So my own opinion, I think that we can sometimes do stupid things but we are the original and true comeback kids and usually end up on our feet again in one way or another- I used to be very much like a stereotypical ESFp but life has taught me to get my shit together. Don't get me wrong, I still have my moments- your type is your type for life after all- but I have learned to adapt overall. I'm not saying this for a trophy, I'm just saying that we learn from experience, and we can learn to avoid the things that may have tripped us up, which could be said of all types
    I think you have personalized whatever negative comments have been said here to apply to yourself. Everyone and every type have a positive and a negative aspect to themselves as potentially unpleasant as that sounds, no use pretending otherwise unless you get into a philosophical or moral discussion about what if anything is negative or positive. You are firstly an individual and a human and not a type. What might apply to some ESFps does not necessarily apply to all. Also, it is true that some ESFps do eventually get it together and some don't, the same is true for all other types. If you want I can comment on what I consider the better aspects to the ESFps I have encountered and mentioned elsewhere on the forum, they often have great qualities IMO such as: ambition, persistence, being a good listener, being bright, generousity, would move the earth for their families and I have yet to meet an ESFp who did not have great social skills which can help them more than ten academic degrees aid certain other types or persons. ESFps are perhaps one of if not my favorite type to deal with in general as I have said to others here before but even so I seldom see others including myself from pink colored glasses only.
    Socionics: XNFx
    MBTI: INFJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive View Post
    you better check yourself before you wreck yourself!

    i feel like i should not comment on this thread as unbiased IMO as it may be because nobody would take it seriously seeing as it's coming from the source.
    why can't you comment? everybody's point of view is acceptable...that's the whole point of socionics.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    wtf?
    The SEEs i know certainly don't have messed up lives.
    They're doing very well actually.
    greed/materialism?? Seriously, I don't see that in my friends. They're very down to earth and genuine people. gaining popularity sounds more Fe HA.
    INTp
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mea View Post
    wtf?
    The SEEs i know certainly don't have messed up lives.
    They're doing very well actually.
    greed/materialism?? Seriously, I don't see that in my friends. They're very down to earth and genuine people. gaining popularity sounds more Fe HA.
    Then your experiences are different from mine.

    While they might exist, I cannot say I personally know any ESFp who was not popularity seeking(they have as a creative function and it seems it helps their relationships and popularity immensely and they are very proud of that, I am a bit tired of the ones around me bragging about their popularity because it seems real stupid to me) and worst than that when they want to verbally attack a person the first thing I notice is that they they like to tell them how "unpopular" they are as if they think all people are interested in being liked and popular. I have noticed it bothers at least two ENTps when ESFps tell them how horrible they are and how everyone really hates them so it is not that ineffective a strategy depending on who they use it on. I know and interact with more ESFps than any other type, some are genuine and some are not as with every other type or group of people I imagine.
    Socionics: XNFx
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan View Post
    Then your experiences are different from mine.

    While they might exist, I cannot say I personally know any ESFp who was not popularity seeking(they have as a creative function and it seems it helps their relationships and popularity immensely and they are very proud of that, I am a bit tired of the ones around me bragging about their popularity because it seems real stupid to me) and worst than that when they want to verbally attack a person the first thing I notice is that they they like to tell them how "unpopular" they are as if they think all people are interested in being liked and popular. I have noticed it bothers at least two ENTps when ESFps tell them how horrible they are and how everyone really hates them so it is not that ineffective a strategy depending on who they use it on. I know and interact with more ESFps than any other type, some are genuine and some are not as with every other type or group of people I imagine.
    That really sucks.
    INTp
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    Q_Q

    i fuck shit up all the time, especially if im on a "act like myself" kick. people tell me to act like myself and then can't handle it. i feel like i have to conciously keep a hold on it. i tell myself "do NOT talk to a lot of people today, no verbalizing random thoughts, no Kelly they WON'T really care... " before I go to work occasionally. i always mess up though...never works......ever

    apparently im too harsh, too talkative, too pushy and too bossy. sometimes im accused of being tactless and "mean" (waaaah) and then other times people see my random word vomit as eccentric.

    i have foot-in-mouth disease too.

    regardless if im ESFp or not...i have this problem you're describing.
    SEE Unknown Subtype
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    The want to popular can also be seen as the want to constantly hunt around for the best relationship or the best challenge in establishing a relationship.
    PoLR
    Suggestive Function

    Regular Double-shot Espresso Subtype

    Just because I'm a thinking type doesn't mean I'm not an idiot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan View Post
    Then your experiences are different from mine.

    While they might exist, I cannot say I personally know any ESFp who was not popularity seeking(they have as a creative function and it seems it helps their relationships and popularity immensely and they are very proud of that, I am a bit tired of the ones around me bragging about their popularity because it seems real stupid to me) and worst than that when they want to verbally attack a person the first thing I notice is that they they like to tell them how "unpopular" they are as if they think all people are interested in being liked and popular. I have noticed it bothers at least two ENTps when ESFps tell them how horrible they are and how everyone really hates them so it is not that ineffective a strategy depending on who they use it on. I know and interact with more ESFps than any other type, some are genuine and some are not as with every other type or group of people I imagine.

    this sounds like it's coming from a very benefactor position...imo
    SEE Unknown Subtype
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    [21:29] hitta: idealism is just the gap between the thought of death
    [21:29] hitta: and not dying
    .

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    ME?!!?!? Messed up life?!?!? MWAHAHAHAAHA!

    Ok you got me.

    I would give you a list of shit I've done in the past month, but:

    1. You would never believe me
    2. I can't divulge it anyway! lolz.

    Come and talk to me about it when I'm drunk. This weekend's tipple of choice is Absinthe.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by Charismatik View Post
    From my almost all of my personal experiences with ESFps and from reading about Extraverted Sensation as a leading function, it seems to me that underdeveloped ESFps can be extremely dangerous to both themselves and people they know and care about. I'm sure this is true of every underdeveloped type to an extent, but for some reason Extraverted Sensation strikes me as particularly reckless and impulsive. Something about them seems even less rational and more desperate for pleasurable immediate experiences than any other type. Or am I seeing this wrong, and reading too many assumptions into patterns I've seen between the ESFps I've known best?

    Thoughts, opinions?
    ESFps scare me. Especially ESFp-Se.

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    I had words here once, but I didn't feed them Khola's Avatar
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    I'm not scary, but if I am SEE, I'm totally Fi.
    Hello, my name is Bee. Pleased to meet you .



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    Quote Originally Posted by bee View Post
    I'm not scary, but if I am SEE, I'm totally Fi.
    So are you still undecided between SEI and SEE? I just went through and read a bunch of your posts. My vote is on ESFp for you, for whatever that's worth.

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