Henry Rollins
^ This is by far the best interview I've ever seen of him.
SLE, right?
So, Ezra, Gilly, others considering SLE... should Henry Rollins be the benchmark for male SLE?
Maybe I'm way off on this... I certainly hope not. But, would it be reasonable to say that Henry Rollins is indeed the quintessential SLE/a good example of SLE to be compared against?
If not, please explain, because I'd like to know where I'm off on this.
Last edited by tereg; 01-15-2008 at 02:13 AM. Reason: Grammar issues...
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
Yeah, I've long thought Rollins was SLE. I'd be careful about using Rollins as a litmus test only because he's pretty much full of residual bitterness about his parents. This is pretty common Beta sentiment, but not all SLEs are going to be that way. He's known to be very emotionally closed-off and an obsessive workaholic to the point where he's pretty much closed-off from his super-id functions in a weird way. On the other hand, if you watch old Black Flag footage from when he wasn't so senile, you can see a pretty decent example of what an SLE V.I.s like.
Last edited by Animal; 01-15-2008 at 03:04 AM.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
Litmus test is a better way to put what I was trying to say.Originally Posted by Baby
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
he definitely looks SLE from those videos.
I saw him on a (non-commercial TV) talkshow a while back and found him very admirable. After viewing those videos I still find him strangely compelling.
What do you think of him tereg, and other deltas?
Very similarly. I also think he is an extremely interesting and compelling person. I'm not sure I'd get along with him on a personal level. I'm not sure I'd feel like I'd be able to have a conversation with him with which he found worth his time. So, I'd definitely feel shackled around him. But, I definitely think that there is a lot more than the "crazy" persona that some people attribute to him.
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
Why not LSE? I've always loved Henry Rollins.
bumping haha. does no one else agree that he's a good SLE?
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
i actually really want some more discussion on this.
@jessica - i hadn't considered LSE for him but i thought the first interview was indicative of strong Se.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
I'm actually really starting to warm towards LSE for him.
Other interviews that I've read/seen really do point towards Delta values... individualism, hard work ethic, being unique, among other things.
I'm being brief, but I think that LSE is definitely a reasonable typing for him.
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
I always thought LSE was much more likely than SLE.
I don't think those values are exclusive to Delta. He could be individual due to his nerdiness qualities and hi IQ, and everyone can be a hard worker if they've had the circumstances in life to make them one.
Yeah ESTj are hard workers, but I've seen lots of other types being hard workers too.
It is rare for an ESTj to be so keen on beating people up, as he has done on numerous occasions. I can't imagine the relaxed, leisurely attitude of the ESTj being applicable to his persona when you see him on stage. A persona he maintains for too long for it to be entirely unnatural to him.
I think ESTp makes a lot more sense. Not just about him fighting..he's clearly a violent man, but if you listen to Weight, his most accessible music side of things, everything is about power manueverings.
In fact, the way he acts, I could see the Se being creative rather than accepting, ie ISTj. Normally I would say his Se is much too clumsy to be accepting. But this guy really is a nutter.
In short, it's not a good idea to type someone by quadra values. They are much too vague. Take for example yourself, with dominant Ne you will come up with and be interested in new things. Delta is not supposed to be interested in new things.
This is actually a very good suggestion, and I don't know why I didn't consider it before. I could see ISTj working very well.
I, too, have a hard time seeing Rollins as ESTj... mostly because I can't imagine the dual of an INFj being as explosive/reckless as he is on stage.
"How could we forget those ancient myths that stand at the beginning of all races, the myths about dragons that at the last moment are transformed into princesses? Perhaps all the dragons in our lives are princesses who are only waiting to see us act, just once, with beauty and courage. Perhaps everything that frightens us is, in its deepest essence, something helpless that wants our love."
-- Rainer Maria Rilke, Letters to a Young Poet
I'll be more specific.
When I see this group of quotes, they seem to point to Delta quadra values, and it sounds more like Delta ST stuff:
"I have a low threshold for boredom," he says. "I’d rather do stuff than talk about doing stuff. The idea is to work vigorously. All my heroes work vigorously: Miles Davis, Duke Ellington. I’d rather do that than take three months off to find myself on some beach."He recently turned down a six-figure offer from a Japanese liquor company -- a la Bill Murray in Lost In Translation – to sit still for a whiskey advertisement ("I don’t hang out with alcohol," he says). He also won’t do drugs or smoke cigarettes.
...
"I have never been tempted," he says. "I have been drunk about three times. In ‘87 I tried marijuana for the one and only time. Tried LSD. Interesting. Can lose your mind. Something told me, 'you’re not doing this anymore' and I said, 'right' and I didn’t."
He gets his high from working. He’s been doing it since he was ten, in the suburbs of DC."I hate writing," he says. "I just wish I could stop but I can’t. Writing is not a joy to me. The better you get at it, the harder it is, because it’s less time that you bullshit yourself. I’ve met a handful of writers and they’re pretty miserable people. Because they know that the beast is sitting in the room saying, 'come on. You know you’ve been playing around with your friends long enough. Back to class.'"You can always find deep meaning in the tattoos, right on his person.
...
"...I wanted to be different. I wanted to customize the chassis. I used to think that by decorating the exterior you change the interior. I don’t get tattooed anymore, but I don’t regret anything that is on me.""Do I get recognized? Within one traffic light. The car next to me. Within a minute of walking to any hotel, airport, restaurant, store…within a minute. I see my name being lip-synched by someone pointing at me. It comes with. But do I have to run from paparazzi? No. They want the young, handsome guy with the hot chick. Not the short graying man who walks alone. I’m so not interesting to these people. I can’t tell you how little they give a fuck, which is fine. It allows me to do what I need to do.""The girls in my office say that I’m dysfunctional and I’m losing the plot,” he says. "[They say that], 'you don’t know anyone. Your phone doesn’t ring.' And they’re right. I go out on Friday and buy a whole weekend’s worth of food and I hope that the phone doesn’t ring. I do a whole weekend’s worth of reading and writing and thinking. The girls in the office say I don’t know how to relate, but I get the work done. I’ve always lived alone. I’m the loner type. It makes sense to me. I have no interest in being married. There used to be a lot of rumors about me being gay because there was not a chick on my arm, but I’m completely heterosexual. I’m just really discreet.""You gotta be a good American. You gotta help the old lady up the stairs. The cold guy gets a blanket. We all pitch in, whether you’re making $2.50 an hour or $2 million a year. I consider every American my countryman. Even if they’re in the Klan or not. They are my neighbor. I may not like them, but at the end of the day, I have their back. Bush, for instance: I’m not a fan. If he was hungry, could he have half my sandwich? Absolutely. I don’t like him, but I don’t want him to starve to death. I just want him to get a new job.""If there is work to be done, I’m doing it. You always learn something."
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
You can't type someone by quadra values. They are too vague. There is as much out there to suggest probably all the other quadras.
Here's some examples from your quotes;
His inability to handle being bored for instance. Many ISTp's like to sit around and do nothing, or at least that which requires minimal effort on their part. ISTj do not handle the indefinite situation of 'boredom' as well this. That could be said to be due third and fourth N respectively, and also temperament related.
His aversion to alcohol, that could be culture driven, it could be health related. However most ISTp's like to unwind with a beer or two, that sort of thing is very Si. Infact many ESTj's do also..but for them it's only when the jobs done.
Many ESTp's for instance are perfectionists, as can be ISTj's. It's not an exclusive quality to delta ST's
Being a loner is more common for ISTp's, not ESTj's. To a certain point ISTj's can be loners too, due to their sense of duty ie 'They would rather be friendless, than jobless'
I'm not ruling out Beta ST, of course. I mean, I can definitely understand the case for his Se.
It's just, when I saw this particular interview, and I saw this group of quotes as a whole, it changed my perspective a little bit.
I do understand your points. I don't really have any refutation for what you're saying.
I dunno, it's interesting for me to think about this. I'll give it some more thought.
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
I could be wrong sorry, it's just what i've thought makes sense. Look forward to hearing what ya think dude.
i think potatospirit made me consider LSE a bit more earlier when he said something (correct me if i'm wrong, i'm paraphrasing!) about his lack of realism being something related to Ni polr. i cannot build a 100% irrefutable argumentbased on this, but it's an interesting perspective that i hadn't thought of.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
since you seem to be really into telling people how they can and cannot type other people i'd like you to eventually post a list of cyclops' "acceptable criteria/evidence" so we can all live by your example.
6w5 sx
model Φ: -+0
sloan - rcuei
I have perfectly reasonable examples why we cannot. Why do you refuse to accept them, or put forward a case against them?
But then, since you require 'acceptable criteria'Lets try and not let this this personal grudge you developed with spill out in public again?. It's probably not good for me, and it's probably not good for you.
Hey, if your upset or something why not just speak to me about it?
Last edited by Cyclops; 04-12-2008 at 05:40 PM.
I didn't even glance at this thread until Maria told me to. I don't even know who the fuck Henry Rollins is, so it never interested me.
After watching the first interview and part of the second, I was wondering why (on the first page) LSI wasn't being considered. I see some similarities in body language and general demeanour to LSI James Hetfield. IJ temperament works as well as - if not better than - EP temperament, and after seeing the third video, his little tyrade on society and politics, I see no reason why he couldn't have Ti base if Bill the Butcher in Gangs of New York does. Either way, I could certainly see Beta ST as the most likely possibility.
Why is Delta ST not a good consideration? Well, because he's proved that in his music and in his beliefs, he is clearly a Se valuing individual. If you don't see Se after that last video, you should start studying socionics a bit more.
Well, provide an argument and perhaps it will be considered.
Hmm..I think from what I recall I gave some of my reasons on this thread as to why I initially considered ESTp, but then thought ISTj (Se if you wish a subtype) could work. And some reasons as per my discussion with our tereg as to why ESTj was unlikely.
In all honesty I would like to see implied put together a case for this mans type. I'm not sure if i've seen you put a case together (i'm sure you have-I just haven't seen it.) A few people have commented on this thread, and if implied thinks another type is possible, (or *what* type is possible), then please explain, thanks.
I know hkkmr has a case for ESTj.
I'll leave describing his perspective to him, I'm not sure I could do it justice.
INFj
9w1 sp/sx
Henry Rollins
There's an old thread for him, but I thought it would be better to consider the subject afresh. I don't really know this guy, but apparently he's somewhat famous. Mostly I'm posting this video because it's a goldmine of sociotype-related information, and it seems like it should be very easy to type him based on this.
I'd say he's SLE. Fi-PoLR is evident in his insecurities related to relationships, and Se-Ego in his strong, blunt demeanour and capacity for aggression. I think it's actually an interesting case study of an SLE.
Quaero Veritas.
IMO Hank was Black Flag's best frontman but all his subsequent bands have been more notable for their musicians' contributions, not his. Read his whine-fest "Get In the Van" and report back. It's a mixed account of "I'm so hardcore" and "wah wah waaaah".
I like some of the Rollins band stuff, but you're probably right about the other musicians.
Anyways, yeah.. interesting case study. I think SLE too. I don't know if he's typical. I identify with how he's kind of all over the place. He comes off socially introverted here.
On a sidenote, he doesn't engage in half of the aggressive stuff he used to talk about (otoh, he had a life changing experience when he was robbed and one of his friends got killed).
SLE if I ever saw one. You gotta admire a man who can be so honest with himself.
edit: so/sx 6w5 the strong soc subtype
Last edited by silke; 08-09-2018 at 10:13 PM.
Agreed w/ siuntal, I really appreciate how he can be so candid about himself and his own life. Cool idea for an interview/questionnaire/show too.
ESTp
Didn't watch all of it, but SLE based on eye movements, which I associate withBeta ego block. Appears to take up a lot of space,
PoLR.
I also see some facial expressions that look like SLE flashes of. There's no constant flow to this expression of
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Def not alpha!
Distinguish between him and what he'd be like if he was a quasi-id LSE.
He is very tense and herky jerky violent and a very angry person. Usually this is a LSE trait and tense=rational.
ILI like? Higher energy than ILI though...semi-duals look each other?
Last edited by jughead; 04-15-2011 at 10:19 AM.
Yeah, it's interesting if you compare him onstage in the video in jughead's post to Rollins when he was younger, seated on a couch in the video stray posted. Onstage he's all wound up and tense and could seem EJ temperament; in the interview he's got EP body language.
I would have considered ESTj for him if he seemed, well, Si-valuing, if his eye qualities were different, if he were more actually, consistently contained overall, and a host of other things that don't come across LSE to me. And even though he's got that tense thing happening in the jughead video, he's talking about (in my interpretation, of course) Fi-retarded social mouth farts.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Here's yet another video:
This one, um, it shows what I consider to be an sort of paradox in SLE. Rollins is sitting in an EP posture, but there's still a lot of forcefulness--it's like he's offhand and indifferent on one level (package?), but overbearing and intense on another (contents?). Grr, I've tried to describe this set of qualities glued together before. Hm.
On another note, we see in one of these videos Rollins describing needing a LOT of social distance (overcaution) and then, in another, stepping right into that interviewing kid's space (undercaution)--two opposing manifestations of not accurately gauging things interpersonally. I've seen this with both Alpha and Beta Fi-PoLR.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
He's always been a bit of an SLE guideline for me. ST epitome. Not very funny, but an interesting guy.
Moonlight will fall
Winter will end
Harvest will come
Your heart will mend
Continuing to ponder Henry Rollins, negativism is evident when he talks about assuming how he's going to wind up serving ice cream again at Haagen-Dazs someday, or some other lowly work--now, surely that's unreasonable, for he must have some money in the bank. It's an example, though, of a kind of doom/gloom thing that SLEs will do.
Also negative, combined with Fi-PoLR in the SLE: "People suck." Lol.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
Se-ESTp. Typed him a long time ago.
I hate people too and I'm not Fi-PoLR.
So you say.
Anyway, do you literally and often state the idea that everyone on a whole planet, in a whole nation, an entire city, is categorically a pos? And then do you act as if that were not at all the case, so that your stated perspective makes no sense?
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
No, not down to every last individual. There'll obviously be exceptions. But the general trends hold true.
You're SLE, after all.
Okay, just kidding. I have associated this kind of regularly stated sentiment ("All [people of category] are shit") with SLE, but maybe it's NTR, or maybe it's not only that type, but others, too.
LSI: “I still can’t figure out Pinterest.”
Me: “It’s just, like, idea boards.”
LSI: “I don’t have ideas.”
he's a great storyteller. I could listen to videos of him all day and be entertained.
Last edited by bg; 04-15-2011 at 04:11 PM.
This guy was in Gamma quadra for a long time on here.
EDIT: There was a thread in which some people typed him LIE if my memory serves me right, SLE makes much more sense. Ah shit, sorry Krig.
Last edited by Absurd; 04-15-2011 at 04:43 PM.
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