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Thread: The Implied Exertion Types of Classical Socionics

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    Default The Implied Exertion Types of Classical Socionics

    From reading over some of the supersocion/dual-type threads, it seems that these slave or exertion types are describing some traits that are already attributed to certain elements under classical socionics. I think that perhaps classical socionics types are not simply the master type, but perhaps the slave type as well in the traditional descriptions. So a classical INTj would not be INTJ-XXXx, but INTj-INTj.
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    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    From reading over some of the supersocion/dual-type threads, it seems that these slave or exertion types are describing some traits that are already attributed to certain elements under classical socionics. I think that perhaps classical socionics types are not simply the master type, but perhaps the slave type as well in the traditional descriptions. So a classical INTj would not be INTJ-XXXx, but INTj-INTj.
    Yes that's what classical socionics says. But dual-type theory is attempting to break it down more specifically (correct me if I'm wrong, guys), saying that there is the type that you are metabolically (master type which would also correspond to your classical socionics type) and the type that your energy is when exerting itself. (slave type)
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    From reading over some of the supersocion/dual-type threads, it seems that these slave or exertion types are describing some traits that are already attributed to certain elements under classical socionics. I think that perhaps classical socionics types are not simply the master type, but perhaps the slave type as well in the traditional descriptions. So a classical INTj would not be INTJ-XXXx, but INTj-INTj.
    It's a complicated business which you've gotta delve into the details to understand. The question is, if you ponder doing something, do you do it right after you ponder it? For some people, this is the case. (Consider George W. Bush, for example, who when he gets an idea in his head hardly pauses for reflection, but just goes for it.) For others, the situation is not necessarily right, because you've gotta handle the implementation in a certain way. The relationship between how you determine what to do, and your preferred means of eventually carrying it out, is the substance of your dual-type.

    When people say, "Yeah socionics is a model and no model will ever match reality" then this is what they are usually referring to, how a person gets an idea in their head to make themselves more appealing; or to build a new relationship with someone; or to organize something; or to make some imagined possibility real; or to make themselves more comfortable; or to get something moving; and then finds they can't just go ahead and do it, or that even though they had a great idea with lots of thought and effort into making it just amazing, they find themselves unable to actually make it happen because they have no idea how to fulfill it. For that you need not only skill, but the ability to focus your energy at performing the required activities with a minimum of interference; otherwise you'll just end up with a half-assed mockery of your original idea.

    Augusta is on record as recognizing that people use their energy apart from their type, and that it can cause a sense of "blurring" between elements and a sense of "multi-typeness".

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    Quote Originally Posted by tcaudilllg View Post
    It's a complicated business which you've gotta delve into the details to understand. The question is, if you ponder doing something, do you do it right after you ponder it? For some people, this is the case. (Consider George W. Bush, for example, who when he gets an idea in his head hardly pauses for reflection, but just goes for it.) For others, the situation is not necessarily right, because you've gotta handle the implementation in a certain way. The relationship between how you determine what to do, and your preferred means of eventually carrying it out, is the substance of your dual-type.

    When people say, "Yeah socionics is a model and no model will ever match reality" then this is what they are usually referring to, how a person gets an idea in their head to make themselves more appealing; or to build a new relationship with someone; or to organize something; or to make some imagined possibility real; or to make themselves more comfortable; or to get something moving; and then finds they can't just go ahead and do it, or that even though they had a great idea with lots of thought and effort into making it just amazing, they find themselves unable to actually make it happen because they have no idea how to fulfill it. For that you need not only skill, but the ability to focus your energy at performing the required activities with a minimum of interference; otherwise you'll just end up with a half-assed mockery of your original idea.

    Augusta is on record as recognizing that people use their energy apart from their type, and that it can cause a sense of "blurring" between elements and a sense of "multi-typeness".
    Thank you for that thorough description, but I don't think it quite answers my point. My point is that type descriptions (perhaps erroneously) often describe the actions and methods of a given type. For example, an LSI is oriented towards making sure people follow his system, usually by gaining hierarchical superiority and then using his power to authoritatively assert his system. This, to me, describes the master and slave type functioning. Couldn't the LSI implement his chosen system in another manner? Perhaps ex-LIE or ex-ESE? Isn't that sort of description overlapping into what you are doing with the exertion type?
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    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    Thank you for that thorough description, but I don't think it quite answers my point. My point is that type descriptions (perhaps erroneously) often describe the actions and methods of a given type. For example, an LSI is oriented towards making sure people follow his system, usually by gaining hierarchical superiority and then using his power to authoritatively assert his system. This, to me, describes the master and slave type functioning. Couldn't the LSI implement his chosen system in another manner? Perhaps ex-LIE or ex-ESE? Isn't that sort of description overlapping into what you are doing with the exertion type?
    Yes; and you're right, socionists seem to make that mistake (some of them) by thinking that a type goes about trying to impose their ideas right away, rather than waiting for the proper context for their implementation. Others are more careful, however.

    Of course, if a LSI, for example, decides to implement their carefully conceived organization after a careful plan (a planned restructuring) then that's a big departure from an LSI who just says "I've got this idea for an organization, now reorganize", isn't it?

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