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Thread: SEI-ILE duality relations discussion, stories and examples (ENTp and ISFp)

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    Default SEI-ILE duality relations discussion, stories and examples (ENTp and ISFp)

    I think the ENTp/ISFp dual is one of the least defined in terms of responsibilities. I think these duals are pretty flexible, and I can imagine that it wouldn't be uncommon for those roles to change a lot throughout the relationship, depending on circumstances. What do you think?


    ++added: see also Duality observations
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    Yeah, I can see that. I think it's a pretty laid back relationship. I can't really say what it would be like in a marriage.

    I have a fairly close friendship with an ENTp and I can see a few examples of shared responsibility. We don't have a specific person who drives all the time, we switch on and off pretty equally. We go to concerts fairly often and when a show is coming up that we want to go to one or the other of us will just volunteer to pick up the tickets.

    There's no power struggle. I never feel put off by him and he never seems to be put off by me. Neither one of us likes to burden people with things. I hate to ask for help, I like to do things on my own. I only ask for help if I must and he's very much the same way.

    It's similar with emotional things. I can't stand to burden people with my problems and try to deal with things on my own. I very rarely go emotionally overboard, maybe under extreme stress, or very serious situations...I'm not emotionally needy. When I think in these kind of terms it's cool to see how duality works. Assuming that this is a trait of ENTp/ISFp duality, rather than just how the two of us are together. For instance, I don't know how on earth an ENTp would be able to handle an overly demanding, emotionally needy person. It would be a disaster.

    Just some thoughts.
    ISFp, SiFe, , or SEI....whatever we're calling ourselves these days.

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    I have yet to reconize an ENTP but duality sound good. I with I could met one in person
    ISFP, SEI

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    Quote Originally Posted by taz
    I have yet to reconize an ENTP but duality sound good. I with I could met one in person
    Always good to met your dual.
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    I recently met another ESFj young lady. Dual relations seem like that illustrious best friend you have known all your life* even after just a few meetings and then you may wonder, so now what? if life seems like a game to me then we got to start playing it.

    *it was so sweet when she innocently said, "i feel like i've known you for 15 years" and I thought, "i know exactly what you mean".
    Remember to keep things simple and not any simpler like Einstein once said.

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    Does anyone else think that the ISFp is actually the more socially "extroverted" of this particular set of duals?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    Does anyone else think that the ISFp is actually the more socially "extroverted" of this particular set of duals?


    Nope from my parents, my father leaves the house at 7.30 and comes home at 10 pm, my mother would never leave if she didn't have to.
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    Right, on ENTp/ISFp duality --

    My brother is an ENTp, and his wife, ISFp.

    I never had much contact and/or intimacy with them beyond normal family gatherings (my quasi-identical/conflictor couple -- duh) but I have observed the following.

    He's the one who takes the decisions - or at least provides the direction - in longer-term matters, and she trusts him.

    He's self-employed, making reasonable money but very unstable; she's the one who provides stability with a steady job.

    He's very much interested in science fiction, Tolkien (he's read every obscure book by Tolkien several times) and an atheist; she doesn't care much for that stuff and is a traditional Catholic. He just stays at home while she goes to mass, no big deal.

    She does like to play the "Careful" role with him and, essentially, what they seem to like doing together is essentially relax and enjoy a cozy atmosphere.

    I find difficult to relate to that, but this is not surprising.
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    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Does anyone else think that the ISFp is actually the more socially "extroverted" of this particular set of duals?
    Actually, from my experience, it seems to be pretty equal.
    ISFp, SiFe, , or SEI....whatever we're calling ourselves these days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    Does anyone else think that the ISFp is actually the more socially "extroverted" of this particular set of duals?
    Actually, from my experience, it seems to be pretty equal.
    I think the ISFp and the ENTp can be equally socially "extroverted" in the sense of casual contacts, but the ISFp will have more emotionally-close friends and such.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    Does anyone else think that the ISFp is actually the more socially "extroverted" of this particular set of duals?
    Actually, from my experience, it seems to be pretty equal.
    I think the ISFp and the ENTp can be equally socially "extroverted" in the sense of casual contacts, but the ISFp will have more emotionally-close friends and such.
    Agreed.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth
    Does anyone else think that the ISFp is actually the more socially "extroverted" of this particular set of duals?
    Actually, from my experience, it seems to be pretty equal.
    I think the ISFp and the ENTp can be equally socially "extroverted" in the sense of casual contacts, but the ISFp will have more emotionally-close friends and such.
    Ah, yes. Good thing to point out. I hadn't thought about it in those terms. That is very much how things are in my situation.
    ISFp, SiFe, , or SEI....whatever we're calling ourselves these days.

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    By the way, how would the ENTp-ISFp relationship differ visually in terms of a video?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    By the way, how would the ENTp-ISFp relationship differ visually in terms of a video?
    from what I know about ENFps and ISFps (I know the most people of those types), the ENTp would do most of the talking. He'd go all funky insane with Ne dominant ideas and the ISFp would laugh and giggle and encourage those ideas. The ISFp would also touch him in a subtle way just like the ESFj and INTj touched each other in that interview. Must be some Si thing. The judging/perceiving would not be easy to spot in an interview, but the ENTp/ISFp couple would probably move more.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Then again, I believe that the popular opinion was that Jim and Pam from the Office (US) were an ENTp/ISFp pair. I would just need to find a video that appropriately conveyed the typical sort of behavior.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    By the way, how would the ENTp-ISFp relationship differ visually in terms of a video?
    from what I know about ENFps and ISFps (I know the most people of those types), the ENTp would do most of the talking. He'd go all funky insane with Ne dominant ideas and the ISFp would laugh and giggle and encourage those ideas. The ISFp would also touch him in a subtle way just like the ESFj and INTj touched each other in that interview. Must be some Si thing. The judging/perceiving would not be easy to spot in an interview, but the ENTp/ISFp couple would probably move more.
    Yeah, that sounds right. The ENTp would be way less serious, constantly joking, etc. Probably more overt sexuality too, IME.

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    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    By the way, how would the ENTp-ISFp relationship differ visually in terms of a video?
    from what I know about ENFps and ISFps (I know the most people of those types), the ENTp would do most of the talking. He'd go all funky insane with Ne dominant ideas and the ISFp would laugh and giggle and encourage those ideas. The ISFp would also touch him in a subtle way just like the ESFj and INTj touched each other in that interview. Must be some Si thing. The judging/perceiving would not be easy to spot in an interview, but the ENTp/ISFp couple would probably move more.
    Yeah, that sounds right. The ENTp would be way less serious, constantly joking, etc. Probably more overt sexuality too, IME.
    *sigh*

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    Quote Originally Posted by thehotelambush
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    By the way, how would the ENTp-ISFp relationship differ visually in terms of a video?
    from what I know about ENFps and ISFps (I know the most people of those types), the ENTp would do most of the talking. He'd go all funky insane with Ne dominant ideas and the ISFp would laugh and giggle and encourage those ideas. The ISFp would also touch him in a subtle way just like the ESFj and INTj touched each other in that interview. Must be some Si thing. The judging/perceiving would not be easy to spot in an interview, but the ENTp/ISFp couple would probably move more.
    Yeah, that sounds right. The ENTp would be way less serious, constantly joking, etc. Probably more overt sexuality too, IME.
    *sigh*
    Oh really?

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    Default Why do I (ENTp) intimidate the ISFps?

    I'm a textbook ILE--you know, mad scientist vibe, ridiculous surreal humor, diverse set of interests--but I seem to scare most SEI types. This is particularly relevant for me right not because I know this one beautiful (I mean, absolutely gorgeous...like, her eyes are so...well, you get the point) SEI girl who seems to enjoy having me around in a group, but always seems nervous or on guard about me if we are ever alone or close to alone together. It's quite strange to me, especially since we have similar tastes in many things, and a strongly compatible value system.

    I know that duality theory actually predicts this, but I can't seem to overcome it. (The relationships I have had have been with ESEs, which is a ton of fun, but leaves us both exhausted and antsy all the time.) I really like the "aggressive gentleness" that SEIs seem to display so readily, but it seems to be in such stark contrast with my overbearing, passionate love for essoterica, that there is considerable tension.

    Forgive my rambling, but what I'm trying to ask is, how do I attract an SEI? I thought it was supposed to be kinda easy or something.

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    .

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    "Aggressive gentleness" is the term I (and others; it's not original to me) use to describe the way some people act gently at all times, and even go out of there way to be soft and friendly with people. Likely related to creative (2nd function) , in that these introverts (SEI, IEI) describe and fashion their world in terms of interpersonal relationships, causing them to seek relational harmony at all costs.

    It was a quality I noticed in the pastor of the church I grew up in (likely IEI), and have seen it in others since. It may also be called "edgy meekness."

    Basically, I like using paradoxes to describe how people function: "theoretical application" for ILE, perhaps.

    Just as investigating something like the fact that birds fly in the presence of gravity can give you insight into physics, investigating how people can behave in seemingly dissonant ways can give you insight into the human mind.

    Maybe.

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    She's probably just shy. If you hang out with her more in the group, she'll get used to your presence and be more likely to feel comfortable with you, so will be able to handle it when the two of you are alone together.

    I'm ISFP and I know for me, I actually prefer to hang out in groups with the guy I like before I hang out with him one on one, just so when that time does come, I feel completely comfortable and can be myself.

    Just give her time.

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    yeah i think you're right in that you should attract the ISFp by just being yourself. However I have seen them as liking some courtship as well. Time has the same affect as courtship.

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    Thanks for the responses. Every perspective adds one more piece to the puzzle I will never complete. But it sure is fun to try...to complete it, that is.

    Actually, I did make my feelings clear to her at one point, but that was pretty soon after I met her, and I actually was trying to set myself up to be rejected so I could stop thinking about her and get on with life. (I have a low opinion of limerence, but it can just be so dang persistent.) At the time she told me no, but a mutual friend told me that she's really confused about it, and may warm up to me eventually.

    Specifically, I'm worried that I may make her uncomfortable, in that I'm gregarious and intensely passionate about a wide range of essoteric interests. And I know that SEIs won't do what makes them uncomfortable. (Thank you so much, to him or her who invented the double-entendre--although I don't mean to imply too much; I believe in sexual abstinence before marriage--but puns sure are fun.) Also, she's a dance major at a small private college, so I wonder if her being surrounded by men who are likely gay, or, at the very least, highly effeminate has made her wary of more masculine (in my case, big and hairy) men.

    Something tells me that patience is in order here, and I appreciate the suggestion that I apply it. But it is difficult; when I become interested in a topic (e.g., socionics), I read everything I can possibly get my hands on about it, participate in discussions relevant to it (e.g., this forum), and try to tell everyone I know about it (e.g., "No, it's not voodoo. It's a plausible scientific theory worthy of further research."). When I become interested in a woman, these same kinds of passion are heightened to an even greater degree, largely due to my sex drive and need for companionship, which no academic interest can meaningfully fullfill.

    But I will resolve to be patient. Perhaps in time she will come around or my interests will mellow, or (heaven forbid) both. But regardless, I am left with a few questions:

    What is it about ILEs that could ever help an SEI be comfortable?
    and
    Since when did women like the "nice guy?"
    and finally
    What are some things I should look for to make sure that my limerent affection is not forcing me to mistype this girl?

    JRiddy
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    send her these posts
    asd

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    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    send her these posts
    heh heh

    no

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    Try to be what the best person you can be...
    Good luck...
    Thanks

    [hr:4489f9382e]
    Btw, I'm not in a state of desperation here, but rather one of frustration, consternation, and agitation. I can deal with it, but that doesn't mean I'm not sill trying to understand the unintelligible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    [marq=right:29a0ea123d]
    Quote Originally Posted by heath
    send her these posts
    heh heh

    no[/marq:29a0ea123d]

    [marq=left:29a0ea123d]
    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    Try to be what the best person you can be...
    Good luck...
    Thanks[/marq:29a0ea123d]

    [marq=down:29a0ea123d]Btw, I'm not in a state of desperation here, but rather one of frustration, consternation, and agitation. I can deal with it, but that doesn't mean I'm not sill trying to understand the unintelligible.[/marq:29a0ea123d]
    Quote Originally Posted by Logos
    Holy mud-wrestling bipolar donkeys, Batman!

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    Yes, my bad. But i fixed it. (I thought the "marq" tag created floating sections to the sides, but i was wrong.)

    JRiddy
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    Try to make out with her, that's what usually breaks the deal. That's what I've always advised my ILE friend to do in those situations, and it generally worked out for the better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    What is it about ILEs that could ever help an SEI be comfortable?
    Be as less-judgmental as you can. If I feel like my opinion is going to be scorned at or ridiculed by a person, then I'm definitely going to keep my mouth shut! I love it when I can feel safe to actually speak my opinion and the person listening actually values what I'm saying...it's nice! Anyway, it's just a vibe I pick up on too...like whether or not I'm going to be harshly judged or not... so if you're an accepting guy, then you are all good!

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    Since when did women like the "nice guy?"
    Since always. I love guys with warmth.

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    What are some things I should look for to make sure that my limerent affection is not forcing me to mistype this girl?
    Ugh - if you're into this girl then fuck typing! Just enjoy having fun with her!

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    Quote Originally Posted by night_owl
    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    Since when did women like the "nice guy?"
    Since always. I love guys with warmth.
    Interesting...the "i'm a funny guy, but i'm not particularly interested in you" vibe that has served me so well in the past may not work here...thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by night_owl
    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    What are some things I should look for to make sure that my limerent affection is not forcing me to mistype this girl?
    Ugh - if you're into this girl then f*** typing! Just enjoy having fun with her!
    Forgive my overemphasis on speculation. I'll do my best.

    By the way, night_owl, you rock for dividing up the quotes. If everyone did that, I would die from a joyous myocardial infarction.

    JRiddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    By the way, night_owl, you rock for dividing up the quotes.
    Lol no worries. Good luck with your girl.

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    Default Re: Why do I intimidate the SEI?

    Quote Originally Posted by JRiddy
    I'm a textbook ILE--you know, mad scientist vibe, ridiculous surreal humor, diverse set of interests--but I seem to scare most SEI types. This is particularly relevant for me right not because I know this one beautiful (I mean, absolutely gorgeous...like, her eyes are so...well, you get the point) SEI girl who seems to enjoy having me around in a group, but always seems nervous or on guard about me if we are ever alone or close to alone together. It's quite strange to me, especially since we have similar tastes in many things, and a strongly compatible value system.
    Sounds like she likes you but needs to build up a sense of trust and equality before she can open up and be herself when you're alone. My thought is enter her area of confidence by requesting help in areas of Si interest. Cooking, cleaning, setting routines, being on time, relaxing, being comfortable, etc. As her dual, you already know you are stronger in Ne matters. What you want to convey is that she can provide an equal contribution, and that you have need of her strengths as much as she has need of yours. Otherwise she runs the risk of being overwhelmed by your impressive Ne ability and thinking she can't do anything. (Despite women's lib, it seem many girls these days have over-developed super-egos.)

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    Luke said "My thought is enter her area of confidence by requesting help in areas of Si interest. Cooking, cleaning, setting routines, being on time, relaxing, being comfortable, etc."

    ISFp's do not like cooking, cleaning routines or being on time. Those things are work. ISFp's like having fun and relaxing without deadlines.
    ISFPman

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    I like cooking, but only for me. I especially don't like having to cook. Like dinner for people or something... actually, having to do anything serriously bugs me. I blank out and get anxious and try to avoid or sidestep it as much as possible. So uhhh... yeah I agree with you, I guess

    I HATE cleaning with a passion and I'm horrible at being on time, moreso because I just don't care about it than anything else. Like if somebody says "come over" to me I'm fine if I leave right then, but if I don't want to leave right away I get sidetracked or sucked into what I'm doing and it usually takes a reminder call to see why I'm not there yet.

  36. #36

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    I agree. Cooking , cleaning and being on time fit sj's not sp's.
    ISFPman

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    ISFp's are shy and will probably never make the first move. So if anyone is to date one they need to make their feeling known to the ISFp and be the aggressive one. So just be straight forward. There may be some gender differences as woman can play hard to get or be unsure. I do not like groups so I would not be hanging out in one as was described. I prefer one on one interaction.

    I am not encouraging ISFp-ENTp romantic relationships however. I do believe socionics is true in describing relationships. Most people are hoping for the perfect relationship but that does not exist. I do not believe dual romantic relationships are the best. Dual relationships balance our weak and strong personality characteristics and since both ISFp and ENTp are easy going they can enjoy each others company. But that is best for platonic relationships at best if one can put up with being opposites with them in every other way. I believe ISFp's are better off with someone more feeling like an ESFJ. I believe an ISFp will be lacking the feeling side of the relationship with an ENTp. And will not like their analytical side. I find most ENTP's writing hard to understand and boring or rough. To me a romantic relationship is centered around feelings which is the ENTp's weak point. Sure the ISFp can bring feelings into the relationship but will feel burnt out not getting enough back in return. Well, that is my opinon. Every person is different. I think 2 ISFp's get along great but neither one will ever make the first move.
    ISFPman

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    Quote Originally Posted by ISFPman
    ...I think 2 ISFp's get along great but neither one will ever make the first move.
    totally true

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr
    Quote Originally Posted by ISFPman
    ISFp's are shy and will probably never make the first move. So if anyone is to date one they need to make their feeling known to the ISFp and be the aggressive one. So just be straight forward. There may be some gender differences as woman can play hard to get or be unsure. I do not like groups so I would not be hanging out in one as was described. I prefer one on one interaction.

    I am not encouraging ISFp-ENTp romantic relationships however. I do believe socionics is true in describing relationships. Most people are hoping for the perfect relationship but that does not exist. I do not believe dual romantic relationships are the best. Dual relationships balance our weak and strong personality characteristics and since both ISFp and ENTp are easy going they can enjoy each others company. But that is best for platonic relationships at best if one can put up with being opposites with them in every other way. I believe ISFp's are better off with someone more feeling like an ESFJ. I believe an ISFp will be lacking the feeling side of the relationship with an ENTp. And will not like their analytical side. I find most ENTP's writing hard to understand and boring or rough. To me a romantic relationship is centered around feelings which is the ENTp's weak point. Sure the ISFp can bring feelings into the relationship but will feel burnt out not getting enough back in return. Well, that is my opinon. Every person is different. I think 2 ISFp's get along great but neither one will ever make the first move.
    ENTp are pretty good with Fe, it's Fi we are weak in... I've never really had a relationship with a SEI, but I've had a relationship with a Extroverted Fe ego type and when it was good it was very much as described in this link. The problem was that when I was tired or didn't want to go out, I would get dragged out and it just made me more depressed. I usually just wanted to stay home and have dinner, enjoy a movie, cuddle and relax. Laid back... comforting, peaceful..
    yeah I'd totally rather stay home and do all that stuff than go out... I hate going out. Well i mean, I don't hate it... but I'd much rather stay in and enjoy some peace and quiet or intimate sillyness and fun (not meant sexually, although there's that too)

    I'd deffinately respect and want to hang with a person more that wants to stay in than one that wants to always go out.

  40. #40

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    I do not like going out either. It is nice to see things once in a awhile but I like staying home better. Going out makes me tired and if I spend a day off out I do not feel I really I had a day off.
    ISFPman

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