INFjs/ENFps what do you think of Introverted Intuition Ni?

[hellothere]

similarly to the Beta thread, what do you think/feel about ?

[munenori2]

The most obvious thing that strikes me is pretty much when I'm dealing with projecting time. For example, if I know I need to be somewhere at time x, then I sort of mentally visualize how long it's taken me in the past to get there, or as close as I've been if it's somewhere new, under conditions y then plopping in some extra time for unforeseen circumstances. In a longer range perspective, I think this is what I use when I try to forecast certain problems that might arise in the future, such as carrying demographic figures or whatnot at a constant or adjusted rate on down the road and seeing what I think might happen. Although this description is probably too simple and vague. I am curious to hear what else others will have to offer however.

[hellothere]

but do you like doing those things, or would you rather not? I'm trying to see in what ways its 'unvalued' or 'subdued' -- if it is at all

[snegledmaca]

For example, if I know I need to be somewhere at time x, then I sort of mentally visualize how long it's taken me in the past to get there, or as close as I've been if it's somewhere new, under conditions y then plopping in some extra time for unforeseen circumstances.

Actually that's how I use it as well. Not something overtly conscious, just a normal, typical everyday occurrence.

[tereg]

Ok. So, for me, is something that I cognitively understand conceptually, but for me to actually use it feels quite foreign and many times is difficult to harness.

My understanding of is more along the lines of being able to intuitively understand concepts and trends with incomplete information. The only metaphor that I can come up with is like a sea of floating ideas, and somehow is able to gather these ideas and be able to draw a conclusion out of it. It's like understanding something's essence without the need for its full description.

This differs from in that to me is about being able to connect understood concepts together. Being able to connect seemingly unrelated things, providing good examples of things that illustrate concepts.

The key difference here for me is the amount of information that is understood about the thing being processed. typically does not require a complete explanation about something. generally means that I can draw in another concept similar to what is being discussed because I understand the information more completely.

So is fascinating to me, but I find it difficult to actually do because I feel the need to understand an idea or concept's makeup before I can start to draw conclusions or similarities to it.

[Slacker]

similarly to the Beta thread, what do you think/feel about ?

Of course all N types use both Ne and Ni so we use it too. But I think what you mean is how it feels from other people? Because when I use it, it's being used alongside Ne. I see all possibilities but I do generally see which is the most likely based upon history, tendencies, etc. I just refuse to believe that the most likely thing is necessarily going to happen I suppose. It's just a preference. Like Ni-dominant people see all the possibilities but prefer to focus on what they see as most likely based upon what they know and have read about and seen before. But I prefer to consider every possible outcome and not focus on any one.

When I hear Ni from other people, it sounds like unsolicited advice to me. I think maybe it's because of the relationship between Ni and Se. Ni and Se need each other. So when someone gives what feels like advice based on Ni ("If you do this, that is going to happen, because that's the way these things always go. History repeats itself! I've seen this before! blah blah blah") I feel this unspoken Se behind it (therefore you need to do what I say) which probably isn't even always intended.

So I will describe the recurring argument I have with my parents (ENTj and ENFj):

Them: "If you do this, that will happen."
Me: "You don't know that. Lots of things could happen."
Them: "No, I've seen this before. When this happens, that happens. You'll regret it. You're going down a bad road."
Me: "That is not necessarily going to happen. Maybe this will happen. Or maybe this other thing. Or maybe some other thing all together. Anyway, it's my business and I can do what I want."
Them: "Yes, you can do what you want, but you're going to regret it. I have a baaaaaad feeling about this."

Etc.

From their point of view, it must be difficult to feel like you know something bad is going to happen and watch your kid ignore your advice and do something you feel is ill-advised.

And no, they are not always right. Although I'll admit they are sometimes right.

[aka-kitsune]

When I hear Ni from other people, it sounds like unsolicited advice to me. I think maybe it's because of the relationship between Ni and Se. Ni and Se need each other. So when someone gives what feels like advice based on Ni ("If you do this, that is going to happen, because that's the way these things always go. History repeats itself! I've seen this before! blah blah blah") I feel this unspoken Se behind it (therefore you need to do what I say) which probably isn't even always intended.

Interesting.

I think I can offer an idea from the pov regarding this phenomenon. I believe dominance is a lot about being prepared for what is to come by reading the signs and anticipating the future. Yes, sometimes this seems to equate to "if a happens, then b will, so c must be done"... but really it's about feeling adequately ready to face whatever and relying on the ability to accurately predict a situation. , at least MY isn't about "winging it". It's about being one step ahead, not being disappointed (but that's more a function of involvement really) or blindsided.

For the record, I try not to "advise" people (or otherwise do so gently) with my Ni-fu.

From their point of view, it must be difficult to feel like you know something bad is going to happen and watch your kid ignore your advice and do something you feel is ill-advised.

And no, they are not always right. Although I'll admit they are sometimes right.

Well, often can just prompt me to obsess on the "something bad" and be unable to see any alternatives. Like a constant maddening needling, forcing awareness to focus on compulsion to avoid an undesirable/negative outcome. "If I don't act now, everything will be lost"...

Times like that I could really use a stronger to counterbalance the overwhelming sense of dread.

[munenori2]

but do you like doing those things, or would you rather not? I'm trying to see in what ways its 'unvalued' or 'subdued' -- if it is at all

Mostly I think it's a matter of relativity. I wouldn't say I don't value Ni. It's useful to me much of the time. In fact, as snegledmaca points out it's pretty much an automatic occurence. Now, if someone were to praise me on how great I was at using it and give me a job where I used Ni all day every day, I'd be good at it, sure, but after a while I'd start to get very bored.

If you had asked me why that was before I knew anything about socionics, I'd probably say something along the lines that what I was doing something too easy, simple, or normal. To be honest, it seemed so much so to me that I used to figure that this kind of process was as accessible to everyone else. It would have occured to me that there were so many other things I could be doing with my energy that struck me as more 'special' or 'alive' (which are adjectives I would use to describe Ne as I see it and use it). Even now, it's hard to shake the feeling of Ni as a commonplace factor in my life. Frequently I use it without thinking about it or reflecting about it much at all. My attention and energy is simply directed elsewhere.

[snegledmaca]

[...] as snegledmaca points out it's pretty much an automatic occurence [...]

Actually there is difference, I didn't read it fully. There is no cognition involved in my usage, I simply know how to manage my time without trying. It's a form of knowledge really. For example, I made an arrangement for the afternoon, and something pops up. The reconstruction of the schedule happens without my knowledge and simply manifests itself through my , the things I think are shit, damn it, and other various curse words. I don't think about how this will affect or impact me, I simply know. I then determine my new schedule not through thinking about it but through matching it with how I feel about things, with how I feel things align together.

You people, when you describe the usage of , there is always some sort of cognition involved, a realization of possibilities, we can go there, we can do this and so on. To me is simply knowledge with no cognition involved. Almost a primeval instinct. It feels like common sense sometimes. I'm guessing this is the issue with slacker mom and her parents, they see the course of action as common sense. When she doesn't take it it simply makes no sense to them.

[Slacker]

Yes, they have actually told me that I "lack common sense".

[munenori2]

Interesting.

The way you describe your Ni sounds like the way I'd do so for my Fi (common sense or knowledge) which gets applied in some way. I wonder if this isn't a good illustration of the difference between one's leading, accepting function and the leading, producing function (FiNe or NiFe).

[tereg]

You people, when you describe the usage of , there is always some sort of cognition involved, a realization of possibilities, we can go there, we can do this and so on. To me is simply knowledge with no cognition involved. Almost a primeval instinct. It feels like common sense sometimes.

This is basically what I was trying to describe when I said

The key difference here for me is the amount of information that is understood about the thing being processed. typically does not require a complete explanation about something. generally means that I can draw in another concept similar to what is being discussed because I understand the information more completely.

and I would continue by saying I can only connect things if I have a deeper understanding of it.

To me

is understanding something's essence without necessarily needing the information
and is the connection of some concept(s) or something(s) after fully understanding the information.

Which would agree with what you were saying about having that common sense feel to it. Things that are common sense should just be known.


And I do also relate to people being critical of my common sense, or lack thereof.