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Thread: LSIs/ISTjs being creative and having artistic abilities

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    lefty's Avatar
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    Default LSIs/ISTjs being creative and having artistic abilities

    Anyone read about how how ISTJs can be quite creative? As an ISTJ is this true for you or is it apparent in any ISTJs you know?


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    Lefty
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    I think I'm fairly creative, but it really depends on what you mean.
    Artistically speaking (figurative arts) no, but if I need to come up with a way to do something, or if something bugs me, then I can often find a creative solution.
    LSI

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    There is one ISTj scientist in the laboratory who also does the instructor stuff. There are different tubes for air and gas going into chambers and analysor and out. He knows all about it and when there's a completely new experiment, he will just have these enthusiastic moments where he tracks the tubes down one by one, "air comes from here, goes either here or here... If I need the air to be dry, it should go through here..." And he's make HUGE changes to the system! He just takes out his tools and makes all the necessary changes in a couple of hours. Later he'll mention, "I added some tubes for your experiment." And I look at it and say, "wow!".

    Another ISTj was the same way. Usually he seemed quite uncreative like an accountant or something like that, but when the experiments started, he was all full of ideas! "So, I was thinking, we probably need small plastic bags for the leaves, and we need small bottles for the branches. Take this, I drilled holes here so it could be transported. And here, I had these custom made. I took the measures from the old ones. I hope they fit."
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
    E3 (probably 3w4)

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    I know an ISTj who is quite crafty--good with his hands. He's a history professor but he likes to do handy projects around the house when he has the time and he made his wife a coffee table that seemed to me to be extremely well made.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    LSI has a practical artistry. Ask them to build a webpage, trick out your PS3, organize your digital photos into a searchable online album, etc and the result is truly a thing of beauty. They have a huge artistic streak under all of that practicality.

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    im having trouble seeing the relevance of the examples.. you mean like, figuring out ways to solve problems?

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    The factor in question here is linking intuition with creativity. Every type is creative in their own way, regardless of polr. They appear creative, because, creativity is generally a "good quality", especially to their duals, who are not good in that area. That is to say, sometimes people can seem creative in a certain way because the person looking at the situation is relatively clueless in such matters.

    Quality work, of course, is not a trait foreign to LSIs.
    Arguing about creativity, asethetics, or artistic qualities, well, you're on your own there. Doesn't really matter what you say - to each is own, and so on.


    Now, what is with the title: "Duality of Identity" ?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UDP View Post
    Now, what is with the title: "Duality of Identity" ?
    A reference to the artistic qualities usually attributed to EIE that may or may not (deciding this is the purpose of the thread) be present in the life of an LSI.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    im having trouble seeing the relevance of the examples.. you mean like, figuring out ways to solve problems?
    I mean like mixing artistic talent with detail oriented perfectionism. The results are functional, beautiful and flawless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    I mean like mixing artistic talent with detail oriented perfectionism. The results are functional, beautiful and flawless.
    That sounds like an industrial designer, kind of, doesn't it?
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    That sounds like an industrial designer, kind of, doesn't it?
    Zenbrat gives great examples. Another example; I have an ISTj friend and if he makes a flowchart over an organization the result is as much a work of art, a colourful thing of beauty fit to frame and put on the wall, as a perfectly clear, hyperdetailed description of the process in question.
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    im having trouble seeing the relevance of the examples.. you mean like, figuring out ways to solve problems?
    Yeah, for example my laptop had some heating problems. It burned two transformers and the third was always hot. Usually the solution would be to stop using the laptop as a desktop, while I took a moka express and put it on the transformer... it worked and I was quite proud of my creativity there.
    LSI

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I loved Berlin...

    I don't get it...
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSpirit View Post
    Yeah, for example my laptop had some heating problems. It burned two transformers and the third was always hot. Usually the solution would be to stop using the laptop as a desktop, while I took a moka express and put it on the transformer... it worked and I was quite proud of my creativity there.
    i'm not supposed to laugh in the library. haha that's funny i just read it again.

    Actually my istj friend did make colorful and precise diagrams and artwork.. i think i know what zenbrat means.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    Actually my istj friend did make colorful and precise diagrams and artwork.. i think i know what zenbrat means.
    Does anyone have an example picture they can post?
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    yeah i refuse to interact with someone acting as an apologist for hitler so i guess i'll declare this thread closed.
    Lefty
    ENFJ

    "I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty View Post
    yeah i refuse to interact with someone acting as an apologist for hitler so i guess i'll declare this thread closed.
    I am not attempting to apologize for Hitler in any way shape or form. Please do not think this. The quotation in my signature is about the artist in all of us. It is a prayer to art. Before Hitler became a politician he was a struggling artist, a painter. He continually failed to get accepted into an art academy and eventually had to give up his chosen lifestyle. He ended up in politics and we all know how that went.

    I think it is interesting how a man who did such monstrous things still had a human side at some point and that this human side would want to paint of all things. I see it as a testament to the importance of humanity's artistry.

    I will admit that there may be a better phrasing for the quotation, but I will not back down from my perceived meaning behind it. If it is really important, I am actually quoting someone else who does not happen to be famous. If you have a revision I will consider it.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    listen, man, i think if you said -hitler was a failed artist....well listen what he was was a failed architect. he could draw but he couldn't design buildings and that's what he wanted to do. i was going to say you could just say hitler was failed artist becuase the quote is only half true, but now that i think about it i think the entire quote is false. whether or not he was evil is obviously debateable. 6 to 8 million people is nothing to speak causally about. i live in nyc and that's the entire city dead and gone and that's all i can think of. nobody can wrap their mind around how evil the holocaust was and even today we've got genocides going on and there's nothing dismissive to say about the people responsible for that, either. there's nothing to sum it up. if anything you could look at the darkeness we all have in us, the egoism, the damage malignant Fi can cause, the fight for resources that racism or genocide stems from...but to try to make light of it...i enjoyed life is beautiful, but the character in that movie is only trying to save his childs mind while in the hollocaust...i just think we can't make light of it or try to put a lighter spin on it or anything. the aftereffects are still upon us, israel is still not really well, and genocide is still going on today. otto rank wrote about the psychology of artists if you're interested. erich fromm, who fled the nazis, wrote a book called the anatomy of human destructiveness. my best friend growing up was jewish and to try to reconclie that her grandmother is the only one that survived vs. hitler is just a failed artist its really offensive. whatever he was there were grave consequenses and if you want to explore the mind of narcissism, the destructive tendancies of fi, or the psychology of destruction, or the psychology of artists more power to you, but i find your quote highly offensive, though tough provoking, but in the end just really off putting.

    peace.
    Lefty
    ENFJ

    "I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.

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    The point of the quotation is that if you ignore your creativity, your emotions, you will end up just as monstrous as Hitler. I just can't help but wonder what if Hitler had stayed an artist and how different the world would be. All that you have described above about your best friend and those 6 to 8 million people, Israel and genocide would not have happened or continue to happen.

    It is not meant to be offensive, though it is supposed to be thought-provoking. I had not really realized it might be taken so offensively. I'm sorry. If others on this forum are thinking the same thing but not saying anything, well, they probably are. I will remove it.

    Oh and thank you for the book recommendations. Peace.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    The point of the quotation is that if you ignore your creativity, your emotions, you will end up just as monstrous as Hitler. I just can't help but wonder what if Hitler had stayed an artist and how different the world would be. All that you have described above about your best friend and those 6 to 8 million people, Israel and genocide would not have happened or continue to happen.

    It is not meant to be offensive, though it is supposed to be thought-provoking. I had not really realized it might be taken so offensively. I'm sorry. If others on this forum are thinking the same thing but not saying anything, well, they probably are. I will remove it.

    Oh and thank you for the book recommendations. Peace.
    hitler didn't ignore his creativity he entertained dellusions that it could make him into an architect which points to the fact he was fostering malignant narcissism far before he came into power.

    youre welcome for the book reccomendations.
    Lefty
    ENFJ

    "I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.

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    I think it was obvious that bibliophile was being ironic. Often, people jokingly say 'don't give up the day job' as a polite way of saying a creative masterpiece isn't actually very good. I bet the person who told Hitler his drawings were crap kicked himself later...Hitler's paintings are rather valuable since he gained notoriety by other means.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty View Post
    hitler didn't ignore his creativity he entertained dellusions that it could make him into an architect which points to the fact he was fostering malignant narcissism far before he came into power.

    youre welcome for the book reccomendations.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitler#...nna_and_Munich

    You are correct, he wanted to join the Academy of Fine Arts Vienna to become an architect though they rejected him the two times for an "unfitness for painting". I am not completely wrong about his painting. He struggled in Vienna painting for tourists while still hoping to be accepted at the academy a second time and ended up in a poor house.

    Also, this quotation of his does not lend itself to malignant narcissism. It seems realistic, though determined. He doesn't say anything like 'surely I will succeed, for my talent is endless.'
    "In a few days I myself knew that I should some day become an architect. To be sure, it was an incredibly hard road; for the studies I had neglected out of spite at the Realschule were sorely needed. One could not attend the Academy's architectural school without having attended the building school at the Technic, and the latter required a high-school degree. I had none of all this. The fulfillment of my artistic dream seemed physically impossible."
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    [url]
    "In a few days I myself knew that I should some day become an architect. To be sure, it was an incredibly hard road; for the studies I had neglected out of spite at the Realschule were sorely needed. One could not attend the Academy's architectural school without having attended the building school at the Technic, and the latter required a high-school degree. I had none of all this. The fulfillment of my artistic dream seemed physically impossible."

    i refuse to learn about life from hitler. i think he was a desperate failure of a man. I think he's disgusting and I dont care what he said about anything. I find any exploration of his character distubring. looking at the above quote he was like a sociopath that wanted to skip steps and he was the author of his own failure. screw him. end of conversation.

    oh and edit: thinking that drawing equates into the understanding of physics required to design buildings is moronic. he was dellusional, megalomaniacal, illogical, narcissistic, and full of shit.
    Last edited by lefty; 01-31-2008 at 10:39 AM.
    Lefty
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    Quote Originally Posted by lefty View Post
    end of conversation.
    As you wish. We're not going to get anywhere with this.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    As you wish. We're not going to get anywhere with this.
    you have failed to address the illogical link between drawing and being an architect and i suspect that you harbor a fair amount of narcissism and megalomania yourself, since it it is your blindspot. youre not going to enlighten the world with hitlers biography. its a manual for what not to do and for mental illness.
    Lefty
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    "I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.

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    IMO bringing up the Hitler topic in any form should be very strictly prohibited in the forum. I do believe in the freedom of speech, so it shouldn't be in forum rules, but I intend to be openly mean to people who discuss Hitler here. He's already been thoroughly discussed. Any further discussion anywhere in the forum is just obsessing over his personality and that's sick.

    Biblio, no more Hitler topic signatures. More trouble than it's worth and gives a bad impression to anyone who accidentally comes to the forum. And Lefty, end the discussion quickly. If you ever want the discussion to end, don't add things that will be argued against.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    LSI has a practical artistry. Ask them to build a webpage, trick out your PS3, organize your digital photos into a searchable online album, etc and the result is truly a thing of beauty.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    I mean like mixing artistic talent with detail oriented perfectionism. The results are functional, beautiful and flawless.
    Funny, that sounds EXACTLY like me.
    “Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”

    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly
    You've done yourself a huge favor developmentally by mustering the balls to do something really fucking scary... in about the most vulnerable situation possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Biblio, no more Hitler topic signatures. More trouble than it's worth and gives a bad impression to anyone who accidentally comes to the forum.
    I removed the quotation and admitted its poor phrasing at Lefty's first objection. And I certainly don't mean to make the same mistake again.
    type #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    I removed the quotation and admitted its poor phrasing at Lefty's first objection. And I certainly don't mean to make the same mistake again.
    yay for LSI! Nice!

    Hehe, I was a bit curious how you'd react to me saying something in a half-bossy way. ("No more..." instead of "Please, perhaps you could avoid..."). And you didn't get all serious and you didn't say, "Don't boss me around!" or anything like that. yay for that as well!
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    yay for LSI! Nice!

    Hehe, I was a bit curious how you'd react to me saying something in a half-bossy way. ("No more..." instead of "Please, perhaps you could avoid..."). And you didn't get all serious and you didn't say, "Don't boss me around!" or anything like that. yay for that as well!
    What the fuck... what, am I your little experiment? The best way to get me to be rebellious is to point out out how cooperative I'm being. And I'll have you know I swallowed my angry retort to Lefty. I don't appreciate being called a narcissistic megalomaniac by someone who knows nothing about me. It's not necessary to make big, sweeping personal attacks in an argument.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by bibliophile8 View Post
    What the fuck... what, am I your little experiment? The best way to get me to be rebellious is to point out out how cooperative I'm being. And I'll have you know I swallowed my angry retort to Lefty. I don't appreciate being called a narcissistic megalomaniac by someone who knows nothing about me. It's not necessary to make big, sweeping personal attacks in an argument.
    Hahaha.. You were being totally sarcastic, right? Or maybe you weren't.. Then I'd go with the LSE typing.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Hahaha.. You were being totally sarcastic, right? Or maybe you weren't.. Then I'd go with the LSE typing.
    I wasn't. It just makes me feel insecure and uncomfortable when people make comments about how I'm being so whatever and treating me like their cute, little pet. But, I'm over it. Which means I now officially hate you. Just kidding. Thanks for the type advice, I'll take anything I can get. If you're interested check out the enneagram thread I started in the Alternative Theories section, it seems to be turning into my typing thread.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Oh yea, this is a kinda of ISTj-ish memorial in Berlin..



    This is why I really enjoyed that town... that and the hookers.
    Wow that looks awesome! Could you walk around in it?
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    It's why you have a mana bar, not a rage bar.

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    Very tragic, never met (or rather have never been close to) an ISTj before, they seem like pretty interesting people.

    But contact with them is rare, since I don't think we would be in the same circles.
    Last edited by Angel Alliterator; 02-05-2008 at 02:19 AM.
    ENFp (IEE, intuitive Subtype)

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    bibliophile8's Avatar
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    hkkmr, those are amazing. Isn't that the holocaust memorial designed by Peter Eisenman?
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    bibliophile8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Yes it is... I made a thread about his type.
    Cool, I was actually thinking about doing that since I was writing a term paper about him, but I didn't get around to it. I'll check it out. He played an interesting role in the introduction of deconstructivism to architecture.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    It's why you have a mana bar, not a rage bar.

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    bibliophile8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    That's interesting... Post your term paper in the type thread maybe..
    I implicitly typed him from his artwork... but I would like to hear what others think..
    I might. Its not very good, because I put it off to the last minute and it was a joke class. I did post a short biography, but its not mine.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

    Quote Originally Posted by BulletsAndDoves View Post
    It's why you have a mana bar, not a rage bar.

  38. #38
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    There is one ISTj scientist in the laboratory who also does the instructor stuff. There are different tubes for air and gas going into chambers and analysor and out. He knows all about it and when there's a completely new experiment, he will just have these enthusiastic moments where he tracks the tubes down one by one, "air comes from here, goes either here or here... If I need the air to be dry, it should go through here..." And he's make HUGE changes to the system! He just takes out his tools and makes all the necessary changes in a couple of hours. Later he'll mention, "I added some tubes for your experiment." And I look at it and say, "wow!".

    Another ISTj was the same way. Usually he seemed quite uncreative like an accountant or something like that, but when the experiments started, he was all full of ideas! "So, I was thinking, we probably need small plastic bags for the leaves, and we need small bottles for the branches. Take this, I drilled holes here so it could be transported. And here, I had these custom made. I took the measures from the old ones. I hope they fit."
    I'm not sure how this is creative. It's definitely practicality (I have no doubt that LSIs are practical), but to me, it's not really creative. Look at what the second guy says. It's not really creativity, it's more like highly effective and systematic procedure.

    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    LSI has a practical artistry.
    Strongly agree.

    Quote Originally Posted by lefty View Post
    yeah i refuse to interact with someone acting as an apologist for hitler so i guess i'll declare this thread closed.
    Hitler has nothing to do with LSIs and creativity. He wasn't an LSI and he... was quite creative (I could make a really sick joke now, but I won't).
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    bibliophile8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Hitler has nothing to do with LSIs and creativity. He wasn't an LSI and he... was quite creative (I could make a really sick joke now, but I won't).
    That was in reference to my signature, which contained a quotation about Hitler: "Hitler wasn't evil, he was a failed artist." Lefty decided she didn't like it and now it is gone. You'll probably incur her wrath with your little joke. May God save your soul.
    type #33
    but maybe LSE, and maybe E3w4(p)

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    It's why you have a mana bar, not a rage bar.

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    stark_raving_genius: Hitler became Hitler when someone laughed at his paintings. Prevent another Holocaust: support bad art.
    Lefty
    ENFJ

    "I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.

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