View Poll Results: type of Donald Trump?

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  • ILE (ENTp)

    2 2.50%
  • SEI (ISFp)

    1 1.25%
  • ESE (ESFj)

    2 2.50%
  • LII (INTj)

    1 1.25%
  • SLE (ESTp)

    61 76.25%
  • IEI (INFp)

    1 1.25%
  • EIE (ENFj)

    5 6.25%
  • LSI (ISTj)

    1 1.25%
  • SEE (ESFp)

    9 11.25%
  • ILI (INTp)

    0 0%
  • LIE (ENTj)

    4 5.00%
  • ESI (ISFj)

    0 0%
  • IEE (ENFp)

    1 1.25%
  • SLI (ISTp)

    1 1.25%
  • LSE (ESTj)

    2 2.50%
  • EII (INFj)

    3 3.75%
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Thread: Donald Trump

  1. #201

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    So either he's a SLE with an unhealthy focus on his Fe HA (to be loved) or he's a SEE with an unhealthy focus on his Te HA (to know).

    I still kind of lean towards Trump being SLE with a strong focus on Fe HA.

    Also, not to put a whole lot of weight on VI, but he seems to VI a lot more similarly to SLE than SEE.


    Quote Originally Posted by glam View Post

    SEE \ ESFp








    SEE's tend to have this warm beam of light exuding from their eyes, which trump always lacks. Trump tends to look a lot colder and more calculated in videos and photographs. His eyes are very similar to the SLE portraits.

    When SLE's look at you, it's as if they are calculating things out about you. When SEE's look at you, they seem to be looking more into your inner being (this is just a personal observation).
    Last edited by Starfall; 03-20-2017 at 07:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by jxrtes View Post
    betas should be kept in zoos for children to stare and throw pop corn at.

  2. #202
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    Can't see the 4D in him, really, and he's fairly consistent over the years in what he strategizes, PoLR not being very likely. All of the "art of the deal" stuff, man... that's more . SLE-Se from here.

  3. #203
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    Yes SLE

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Can't see the 4D in him, really, and he's fairly consistent over the years in what he strategizes, PoLR not being very likely. All of the "art of the deal" stuff, man... that's more . SLE-Se from here.
    I can see 4D Fe even if he doesn't value it.

    The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves. but they can get very excited by those who do. That is why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest, the greatest and the most spectacular.”
    Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I can see 4D Fe even if he doesn't value it.

    The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves. but they can get very excited by those who do. That is why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest, the greatest and the most spectacular.”
    Donald J. Trump, Trump: The Art of the Deal
    Good example of his Fe - but it comes with his Beta grandeur antics, and it's very valued. 4D Fe would extend beyond just promoting yourself through initiating emotional arousal. "Little hyperbole" would be too weak for demonstrative Fe. Does he say something more in this text part? The context would be interesting.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Good example of his Fe - but it comes with his Beta grandeur antics, and it's very valued. 4D Fe would extend beyond just promoting yourself through initiating emotional arousal. "Little hyperbole" would be too weak for demonstrative Fe. Does he say something more in this text part? The context would be interesting.
    I looked through quotes from "art of the deal". Oh, I also can be competitive and like to win.

    A friend of Axios took the time to read Trump's 1987 book "Art of the Deal." Here are the passages that stood out now that Trump is president:


    1. On a daily schedule: "I try not to schedule too many meetings. I leave my door open. You can't be imaginative or entrepreneurial if you've got too much structure. I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops."
    2. On critics: "The way I see it, critics get to say what they want to about my work, so why shouldn't I be able to say what I want to about theirs?"
    3. On flexibility: "I never get too attached to one deal or one approach. For starters, I keep a lot of balls in the air, because most deals fall out, no matter how promising they seem at first."
    4. On the press: "One thing I've learned about the press is that they're always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better. It's in the nature of the job, and I understand that. The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you.
    5. On bad press: [F]rom a pure business point of view, the benefits of being written about have far outweighed the drawbacks. It's really quite simple ... The funny thing is that even a critical story, which may be hurtful personally, can be very valuable to your business."
    6. On exaggeration: "The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration, and a very effective form of promotion."
    7. On fighting back: "[W]hen people treat me badly or unfairly or try to take advantage of me, my general attitude, all my life, has been to fight back very hard. The risk is you'll make a bad situation worse, and I certainly don't recommend this approach to everyone. But my experience is that if you're fighting for something you believe in — even if it means alienating some people along the way — things usually work out for the best in the end."
    8. On results: "You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on."
    9. On competing: "I'm the first to admit that I am very competitive and that I'll do nearly anything within legal bounds to win. Sometimes, part of making a deal is denigrating your competition."


    People have caught on to him not delivering the goods. That's why he is constantly litigating. :/

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I looked through quotes from "art of the deal". Oh, I also can be competitive and like to win.

    A friend of Axios took the time to read Trump's 1987 book "Art of the Deal." Here are the passages that stood out now that Trump is president:


    1. On a daily schedule: "I try not to schedule too many meetings. I leave my door open. You can't be imaginative or entrepreneurial if you've got too much structure. I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops."
    2. On critics: "The way I see it, critics get to say what they want to about my work, so why shouldn't I be able to say what I want to about theirs?"
    3. On flexibility: "I never get too attached to one deal or one approach. For starters, I keep a lot of balls in the air, because most deals fall out, no matter how promising they seem at first."
    4. On the press: "One thing I've learned about the press is that they're always hungry for a good story, and the more sensational the better. It's in the nature of the job, and I understand that. The point is that if you are a little different, or a little outrageous, or if you do things that are bold or controversial, the press is going to write about you.
    5. On bad press: [F]rom a pure business point of view, the benefits of being written about have far outweighed the drawbacks. It's really quite simple ... The funny thing is that even a critical story, which may be hurtful personally, can be very valuable to your business."
    6. On exaggeration: "The final key to the way I promote is bravado. I play to people's fantasies. People may not always think big themselves, but they can still get very excited by those who do. That's why a little hyperbole never hurts. People want to believe that something is the biggest and the greatest and the most spectacular. I call it truthful hyperbole. It's an innocent form of exaggeration, and a very effective form of promotion."
    7. On fighting back: "[W]hen people treat me badly or unfairly or try to take advantage of me, my general attitude, all my life, has been to fight back very hard. The risk is you'll make a bad situation worse, and I certainly don't recommend this approach to everyone. But my experience is that if you're fighting for something you believe in — even if it means alienating some people along the way — things usually work out for the best in the end."
    8. On results: "You can't con people, at least not for long. You can create excitement, you can do wonderful promotion and get all kinds of press, and you can throw in a little hyperbole. But if you don't deliver the goods, people will eventually catch on."
    9. On competing: "I'm the first to admit that I am very competitive and that I'll do nearly anything within legal bounds to win. Sometimes, part of making a deal is denigrating your competition."

    Ahhh cool! I tried to get some impressions from this, very useful.

    1) Ep temperament
    2) Se
    3) Ne
    4) Fe, Se
    5) Te "stabbing" Fi
    6) Fe, Te
    7) Se, Fe, Ni, and Fi --> alienation, idk what to make of that
    8) Fe, Te, Se
    9) Se, Ti, Fe

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Ahhh cool! I tried to get some impressions from this, very useful.

    1) Ep temperament
    2) Se
    3) Ne
    4) Fe, Se
    5) Te "stabbing" Fi
    6) Fe, Te
    7) Se, Fe, Ni, and Fi --> alienation, idk what to make of that
    8) Fe, Te, Se
    9) Se, Ti, Fe
    Nice, this actually helps illustrate why I feel Ti is his polr rather than his creative. He just oozes Fi in a way I do not see in the SLE I know personally. *shudders* I can't believe I said "oozes".

    Edit: I think I may be turning into my dual. I am irritated not only by other's but my own Fi, today.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






  9. #209
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    Trump had a ghostwriter for "The Art of the Deal"
    So you may want to reconsider citing anything from "his" book as evidence for his type

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...iter-tells-all
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...out-of-control

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    Trump had a ghostwriter for "The Art of the Deal"
    So you may want to reconsider citing anything from "his" book as evidence for his type

    http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/20...iter-tells-all
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...out-of-control
    Oh thanks for informing so fast, then we'll need other material.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Oh thanks for informing so fast, then we'll need other material.
    Yes BUT, would one thing be printed in a Trump book about himself that he did not agree to? He sues people for writing unfair things about him in other books.

    One other thing I find amusing is this:


    1. On a daily schedule: "I try not to schedule too many meetings. I leave my door open. You can't be imaginative or entrepreneurial if you've got too much structure. I prefer to come to work each day and just see what develops."



    For most obvious reasons now that he is pres.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Yes BUT, would one thing be printed in a Trump book about himself that he did not agree to? He sues people for writing unfair things about him in other books.
    Yes, I see the point. But unfair does not mean true, if a Beta NF wrote the book he would've wholeheartedly agreed and here we are typing the wrong text

  13. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Yes BUT, would one thing be printed in a Trump book about himself that he did not agree to? He sues people for writing unfair things about him in other books.
    He wants to make sure that people see him as he wants to be seen. The way he perceives himself is, as evident, not equal to who he really is.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    He wants to make sure that people see him as he wants to be seen. The way he perceives himself is, as evident, not equal to who he really is.
    Right, that's why I am extra sure he's got some E3 influence that's off the charts.
    Last edited by Chae; 03-20-2017 at 09:26 PM.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Yes, I see the point. But unfair does not mean true, if a Beta NF wrote the book he would've wholeheartedly agreed and here we are typing the wrong text
    Oops, I meant that "unfair" sarcastically. Should have put in quotes. <3

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






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    @Chae Could you be so kind and correct my quote? My own incompetence in English grammar makes my fucking eyes bleed.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    @Chae Could you be so kind and correct my quote? My own incompetence in English grammar makes my fucking eyes bleed.
    No worries, fixed!

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Good example of his Fe - but it comes with his Beta grandeur antics, and it's very valued. 4D Fe would extend beyond just promoting yourself through initiating emotional arousal. "Little hyperbole" would be too weak for demonstrative Fe. Does he say something more in this text part? The context would be interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gulenko
    When the period of 3rd quadra comes, however, it's a time of individuality, of individual demonstrativeness, of putting yourself out there, of advertising yourself - it's the time when you need to say, for applying for a work position: "I'm the best! I can do this and that and that ..." And if you show yourself modestly, then nobody will hire you, right? It turns out that in 3rd quadra, where there is a hard and harsh competition for survival, modesty is perceived as an anti-value.

    This is related, maybe, not to "centrality-peripherality" [decisive-judicious] of which we talked earlier, but to "aristocracy-democracy". That is, individualism - saying "I! I! I!" - this is "democratic" quadra. In addition, 3rd quadra is a central one. Thus self-promotion, self-advertisement, putting yourself ahead, which is so widespread and in demand currently - this is 3rd quadra. While modesty is more for the "aristocratic" quadra. Even in the 2nd quadra this is so. The 2nd quadra doesn't like it when someone tries to stick out. Although they have TIMs who know how to put themselves forward, others will disapprove and judge them for it. It's not very "aristocratic" to talk of yourself loudly, to shout how you're the coolest, how you can do this or that. "Aristocrat" - is something soulful, spiritual, where one should know his place, and if you are a nobody how can you go around talking about yourself, we shall evaluate you ourselves, and so on in the same key. But when "democratic" times come, one can advertise oneself on every corner - conversely, this is considered to be good.

    Thus, this is related to 3rd quadra and R (Fi) - considerate, sensitive, modest, "a grey mouse", that doesn't try to stick out and claim the attention. As Olesia (from the audience) has written, and she was right on the point, that a modest person in 3rd quadra is like a grey mouse. You can't "sell yourself" like this, right? You need to advertise and promote your "product". Thus in 3rd quadra you need to shout that you are the best. Otherwise nobody will "buy", nobody will invite you to work.

    The 3rd quadra is the quadra of individual success. If an organization is created in 3rd quadra, this means that it's temporary. There is no collectivism here. As long as it is beneficial and rewarding to them, they will stay in the organization or work group. If there is no benefit, there won't be any group - they disperse and go elsewhere. Both the Entrepreneur (LIE) and the Politician (SEE) understand this very well. Nowadays you can gather a large group of people though social networking media for example, but can you keep them together for a long period of time? No, they will disperse and go about their own business. Thus, there is no collectivism currently in our lives. Everyone advertises themselves, puts themselves ahead, and tries to show that they are better than others, so invite him, take him, hire him, buy from him, even though the "product" is virtually the same for everyone. Thus it turns out that you need to show yourself off - and if you are modest nobody will approach you and "buy" from you.
    .

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    .
    Thanks! Meaning, Trump is SEE?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    Thanks! Meaning, Trump is SEE?
    Yes, he is.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    This is related, maybe, not to "centrality-peripherality" [decisive-judicious] of which we talked earlier, but to "aristocracy-democracy". That is, individualism - saying "I! I! I!" - this is "democratic" quadra. In addition, 3rd quadra is a central one. Thus self-promotion, self-advertisement, putting yourself ahead, which is so widespread and in demand currently - this is 3rd quadra. While modesty is more for the "aristocratic" quadra. Even in the 2nd quadra this is so. The 2nd quadra doesn't like it when someone tries to stick out. Although they have TIMs who know how to put themselves forward, others will disapprove and judge them for it. It's not very "aristocratic" to talk of yourself loudly, to shout how you're the coolest, how you can do this or that. "Aristocrat" - is something soulful, spiritual, where one should know his place, and if you are a nobody how can you go around talking about yourself, we shall evaluate you ourselves, and so on in the same key. But when "democratic" times come, one can advertise oneself on every corner - conversely, this is considered to be good.
    Wow, this is really counter-intuitive and interesting... where did you get it from?

    However, I'd have to say that it seems to be saying this only applies if you're a "nobody", and in the Democratic quadra you can advertise yourself loudly even if you're a "nobody":

    "where one should know his place, and if you are a nobody how can you go around talking about yourself, we shall evaluate you ourselves, and so on in the same key. But when "democratic" times come, one can advertise oneself on every corner - conversely, this is considered to be good."

    The 3rd quadra is the quadra of individual success. If an organization is created in 3rd quadra, this means that it's temporary. There is no collectivism here.
    So, does he correlate collectivism with Aristocracy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Stromberg
    Let's stop using this outdated measure - which has about as much scientific validity as your astrological sign.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    Wow, this is really counter-intuitive and interesting... where did you get it from?
    http://www.wikisocion.org/en/index.p...Victor_Gulenko


    So, does he correlate collectivism with Aristocracy?
    It seems like it, yes.

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    I think Trump has always been doing his best LIE impression because on some level that is "American" and by SLE logic the president needs to be presidential (i.e.: "American" and America is LIE). You can kind of tell its a caricature, cause if you really think about it Obama was more American in all the ways that are true and not superficial, yet beta is not really interested in that; they are interested in that Fe Se manifestation that works on the surface, hence both Trumps imitation of a thing and the widespread beta support for his candidacy. The most interesting thing of all is how it seems like even betas are starting to not want him anymore, which doesn't militate towards him never having been beta, it just shows that he's definitely in trouble and the winds are changing and new beta opportunists are positioning themselves in preparation

    I feel like it is practically self evident that he is SLE because once you start to understand projection and imitation you can see how many types wear masks but they always give themselves away in terms of quadra values. They pay lip service to out of quadra values but still live by their own. Even the best lip service has the feeling of exaggeration and imitation to it which is why I think the perceptive person as a matter of gut instinct can see Trump as first and foremost an imitator and not an inherently authentic person. He doesn't exude a moral compass in the way a Fi user does, but it might take an Fi user to recognize that. SEEs on paper sound like they're just as flexible but they're really not. SLE can do an impression of anyone they want but they can't fool the real thing. Inasmuch as betas are not the object of impersonation they can't discern the extent of the fakery. But I bet they'd be able to tell if an LSE was trying to be EIE for example, it would have a certain grossly obvious quality to it, that from my end I see, but might not be able to were the situations reversed

    judge Trump by his actions not words and you see he's beta to the core, and now his beta supporters are trying to disavow him now that its becoming clear he's struggling, which is basically the most beta thing ever

    this whole thing has beta dynamics written all over it

    trying to shove him into gamma is like the meta version of "blaming obama" one more time. its the total refusal to take responsibility for anything perceived as negative. beta. as. fuck
    Last edited by Bertrand; 03-20-2017 at 10:41 PM.

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    meanwhile, in another dimension



    ESTP e8 x ESTP e8

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    Side by side, Trump looks like a sad little puppy.



    Last edited by Aylen; 03-20-2017 at 11:00 PM.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






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    Quote Originally Posted by squark View Post
    .
    While I generally agree with Gulenko's assessment of the 3rd quadra, Trump's type of self-promotion has always struck me as having to do with his innate brand of narcissism rather than him trying to "sell" himself as a kind of product. He's rather self-involved and self-assured with it and seems to be deaf to any feedback instead preferring to just pull through and "crush" his opposition. This pull-through approach that relies on energy reserves rather than careful negotiation is more typical of SLE than SEE, SLE being one of the energy-carrier types. The start of Trump's presidency reminded me of what Prokofieva wrote about how Kutuzov (ILI) managed to wear down Napoleon's (SLE) gusto - it seems like that's exactly what Trump's opposition is trying to do to him.

    Intuitive-logical introvert (ILI) can be called the strategist of all strategists. The combination of strong intuition and logic gives people of this type qualities of wisdom and knowledge of life's laws. The distinguishing attributes of ILI - are precaution and prescience. One of the notable representative of this type was the M.I. Kutuzov. He fought all his life, but didn't win any remarkable battles - all his victories are ambiguous, with an even score. Despite this, he is known as one of the greatest military generals. Napoleon and Suvorov called Kutuzov a "clever fox". Why? Kutuzov's intellect shows itself in a simple acceptance of the fact that there was no way to defeat Napoleon in an open battle. Napoleon was a master of attack, who would thoroughly think through the plan for the battle in advance, but Kutuzov knew how to retreat. That is one of the most complicated military tasks – to hold back enemy forces using only one part of the army, while constantly switching maneuvers, changing from a fighting formation to a retreating and marching formation. Kutuzov carefully calculated and was able to predict that Napoleon would not manage to provide enough forage for horses of the cavalry, and was absolutely right about this. At the end of the war there were only 5,000 people remaining of the great "Grand Army" - and this was from five or six hundred thousand soldiers! Meanwhile, Kutuzov retained half of his army for the main battle to come.

    http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?t..._.28Ni.2CTe.29

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    Quote Originally Posted by silke View Post
    meanwhile, in another dimension



    ESTP e8 x ESTP e8
    look at those strong resolute men. such an inpsiration

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    Sigh.

    The fact that Trump is SLE makes me sometimes want to kill myself.

    The fact that there are people on 16T who can't type well enough to realize he's SLE also sometimes makes me want to kill myself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Sigh.

    The fact that Trump is SLE makes me sometimes want to kill myself.

    The fact that there are people on 16T who can't type well enough to realize he's SLE also sometimes makes me want to kill myself.
    Don't take it so serious.



    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






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    I gotta say the pics of Trump with a dove kind of make me feel he just grew into a grouchy old man.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    Don't take it so serious.


    OMG where is that from I can't brea--

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    Ew @Aylen .

    And I know you and other IEI have a lot of time to waste but I'm not too interested in spending time on any intellectual or pseudo-intellectual discussions I don't take seriously.

    I know not taking things seriously is the only true excuse you can give for your shit Te though, so carry on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    I gotta say the pics of Trump with a dove kind of make me feel he just grew into a grouchy old man.
    naw it was his audience that changed. SLEs just give people what they want. All of beta is kind of like that. Hence the comparisons to Hitler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chae View Post
    OMG where is that from I can't brea--
    I found it quite by accident but when I clicked on source it wasn't available. I took a screenshot. I only clicked a couple pics for source so it might be on another site.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Ew @Aylen .

    And I know you and other IEI have a lot of time to waste but I'm not too interested in spending time on any intellectual or pseudo-intellectual discussions I don't take seriously.

    I know not taking things seriously is the only true excuse you can give for your shit Te though, so carry on.
    You are quite thin skinned but carry on. I am not doing this weak Te thing with you again. You already know what I feel about that.

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






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    I think @squark shows valuable objections and supports his views with valid quotes and sources. I'll continue to type Trump as SLE. However, considering the possibility of SEE to clear misunderstandings is what makes a good discussion and brings us closer to the truth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by niffer View Post
    Ew @Aylen .

    And I know you and other IEI have a lot of time to waste but I'm not too interested in spending time on any intellectual or pseudo-intellectual discussions I don't take seriously.

    I know not taking things seriously is the only true excuse you can give for your shit Te though, so carry on.
    channeling your inner Nietzsche

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    Quote Originally Posted by Horatio View Post
    I think @squark shows valuable objections and supports his views with valid quotes and sources. I'll continue to type Trump as SLE. However, considering the possibility of SEE to clear misunderstandings is what makes a good discussion and brings us closer to the truth.
    I feel like this is the role of betas in society in general--to force us to prove our points. They're like the opposing council in humanities

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bertrand View Post
    naw it was his audience that changed. SLEs just give people what they want. All of beta is kind of like that. Hence the comparisons to Hitler
    Hate to break it to you but there are people like that in all quadras. :/

    "When I ought to be thinking of heaven he will nail me to earth"

     






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    Quote Originally Posted by Aylen View Post
    You already know what I feel about that.
    Yes but what do you think?

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