It really bothers me that people think that ESFjs are like nice lovable carebears

[Hitta]

Out of all the stereotypes that people have placed on the types(most types here have been stereotyped in one way or another), the ESFj stereotype really bothers me. I just don't get it. This socionics community believes that Fe=kissing hugging and cuddling. Don't you see that when you look at it like that, you aren't actually applying traits to it. What exactly about exerting emotions(which is what Fe is, hence extraverted feeling) gives any indication that Fe means those things.

[Hitta]

... you think kissing, hugging and cuddling are not "exerting emotions"?

It is one thing to suggest that ESEs do not engage in such thing, but I'm not sure how you managed to divorce some fairly common emotional expressions from "exerting emotions".

exerting emotions could mean more than hugging and kissing, it could mean kicking your ass too or kicking you in the groin.... what does it mean to exert emotion? This can't be defined by extraverted feeling alone.

[Logos]

Out of all the stereotypes that people have placed on the types(most types here have been stereotyped in one way or another), the ESFj stereotype really bothers me. I just don't get it. This socionics community believes that Fe=kissing hugging and cuddling. Don't you see that when you look at it like that, you aren't actually applying traits to it. What exactly about exerting emotions(which is what Fe is, hence extraverted feeling) gives any indication that Fe means those things.

And what is the correct way that we should view ESEs?

(Others: Please do not provoke him or call him an idiot as I want to see where he is going with this and it is more than likely that his response will save you the effort.)

[cracka]

Actually, there's very few people who hold that opinion. Many of them, it seems, think we're manipulative, gossiping, always in your business, pain in the ass to talk to kinda people. Though, I don't mind the occasional "good" opinion of ESE's every once in a while, I wouldn't expect to hear one from you since I've yet to hear you speak "good" about any type... and I'd rather you not waste your one "good" opinion on my type since there are so few ESE's here... I feel it would be a waste of an occasion so momentous.

[munenori2]

My cousin, who I believe to be ESE, is interminably cheerful. Not in a touchy sense necessarily, but there always seems to be a smile on her face. She has a sort of constant expressiveness that has a definite positivist ring to it all (even considering the horrible things she has had to deal with, though I won't go into any detail). She's flat out a happy, wonderful person. Frankly, I think she's one of the most fun people to hang out with that I know and a genuinely good person to boot, just like her mother who's her identical. ESE's are IME excellent individuals.

[Expat]

Why this self-centered, whiny way of naming a thread? "It really bothers me?" Who cares.

[implied]

Out of all the stereotypes that people have placed on the types(most types here have been stereotyped in one way or another), the ESFj stereotype really bothers me. I just don't get it. This socionics community believes that Fe=kissing hugging and cuddling. Don't you see that when you look at it like that, you aren't actually applying traits to it. What exactly about exerting emotions(which is what Fe is, hence extraverted feeling) gives any indication that Fe means those things.

i don't think there any such huggy, lovey, etc, esfj stereotypes.

[Logos]

i don't think there any such huggy, lovey, etc, esfj stereotypes.

Right. As cracka said, at times the opposite opinion is the one the forum seems to carry.

[implied]

Right. As cracka said, at times the opposite opinion is the one the forum seems to carry.

yeah, which is odd since now basically anything bitchy, rude, explosive, aggressive is . when the opposite can be true just as often. although some of the ESE stereotypes probably exist for a reason, what munenori describes sounds like a pleasant, happy person.

but you know


Just remember:
- is the root of all problems and stupidity.
- is shallow, superficial, and manipulative.

[Expat]

yeah, which is odd since now basically anything bitchy, rude, explosive, aggressive is . when the opposite can be true just as often. although some of the ESE stereotypes probably exist for a reason, what munenori describes sounds like a pleasant, happy person.

but you know


Just remember:
- is the root of all problems and stupidity.
- is shallow, superficial, and manipulative.

You know, I think this misses the point.

Very often I see arguments of the sort, "s/he's not", or "I'm not" "using Fe because there is no concern about we all being nice to each other" etc etc. This has been said by people of all quadras.

I think this is one major reason why some people who are, indeed, ego types, say and have said "I have no Fe, I am logical".

To balance this out, there have been others - myself included - who try to point out the "passionate" etc aspects of .

So I think that the story about "basically anything bitchy, rude, explosive, aggressive is " is a bit overdone.

[snegledmaca]

A though, what elements, except and , could something bitchy, rude, explosive, aggressive be said to be? Can a case even be created for any other element? That is, when a person is being bitchy, rude, explosive, aggressive are they necessarily or ? Or in otehr words, necessarily beta?

[Expat]

A though, what elements, except and , could something bitchy, rude, explosive, aggressive be said to be? Can a case even be created for any other element? That is, when a person is being bitchy, rude, explosive, aggressive are they necessarily or ? Or in otehr words, necessarily beta?

"Bitchy" can also be . can also be "rude" in the sense of "tactless".

"Explosive" can only be I think, which of course can also be used by types.

But you see -- to have "unrestrained emotional self-expression" as a goal in itself, as part of your nature, in finding such an environment appealling, is a characteristic of Beta. enters in the equation when there is also a sense of power-play involved, whether "serious" or "for fun".

Now, of course, your "unrestrained emotional self-expression" may not be actively done by all Beta types (LSIs will appreciate it in others), and it can be more "artistic" than "aggressive".

[implied]

You know, I think this misses the point.

Very often I see arguments of the sort, "s/he's not", or "I'm not" "using Fe because there is no concern about we all being nice to each other" etc etc. This has been said by people of all quadras.

I think this is one major reason why some people who are, indeed, ego types, say and have said "I have no Fe, I am logical".

To balance this out, there have been others - myself included - who try to point out the "passionate" etc aspects of .

So I think that the story about "basically anything bitchy, rude, explosive, aggressive is " is a bit overdone.

well, i know INFps can be very controlled emotionally and even keeled (i also know bitchy INFps.) on the other hand, i don't know who hasn't seen niffweed or fdg "explode" on this board and i'd argue that neither of them are dominants. there are a lot of stories on this board about IXTps becoming pretty volatile at times as well. sometimes people just piss you off for various reasons.

[Expat]

well, i know INFps can be very controlled emotionally and even keeled (i also know bitchy INFps.) on the other hand, i don't know who hasn't seen niffweed or fdg "explode" on this board and i'd argue that neither of them are dominants. there are a lot of stories on this board about IXTps becoming pretty volatile at times as well. sometimes people just piss you off for various reasons.

I'd argue that not only dominants use .

[implied]

I'd argue that not only dominants use .

that's a good argument. (;

[Ezra]

This myth is, once again, MBTT-derived. Even there, ESFJs aren't particularly nice. They're just the nicest of the SJs.

The sooner people start calling them ESEs, the better. It would stop people being tricked into thinking that they're "a bit like ESFJs".

[mikemex]

Fe is more than just emotions. It's really more about finding a common ground with other people.