Ni and Ne in making up stuff
a little birdie with leading Ni told me that Ni micromanages while Ne extrapolates. but also that Ni makes up stuff..
I am confused. how and in what way does Ni make things up?
It's the imagination, and it is somehow Ni-related. Ni imagines the way the world is, based off little actual fact-like information. It comes up with a whole sea of existence (with very little basis in actual reality... off of just a few pieces of information, it can imagine quite a lot), it can't help making things up. It does seek truth though I think, so once something comes along that tells it its made up idealized image of something isn't actually quite right, it will change it... and then of course use this newfound knowledge to make up more things in the future (it can rapidly and easily alter and adjust its pictures of reality, and does so rather constantly).
But why this would be Ni and not Ne, I do not know (or why this would be N and not just the human imagination at work). I just feel like it is, or feel I "know" that it is (for now). Ni by itself, without other functions to tether it, can go floating far far away from anything in reality. It just "knows" things after all... because it imagines them... when these things aren't real or true, then it's like they're made-up... but that was never the intent. They just followed from what Ni already "knew." The reason I think that Ni is so uncertain is because its picture of reality is in flux... it waits patiently for clarity to emerge... what it makes up is not always clarity and is often uncertain, but it's what it has right now.
In a way Ni and Ne are the same... it's just that you experience Ni internally, you feel it. Ne isn't felt like that I don't think... it's external, outside of you somehow.
[/ramblings... please collect your grains of salt and sprinkle them over your memory of what I just said]
I think this is pretty good, actually. I do "know" things and extrapolate from what I know, even if the whole of the imagined part can't be backed up by facts. And it's constantly changing, waiting for clarity as you said. I don't know what the difference is between making things up and extrapolating. Aren't they the same thing?
Originally Posted by Loki
It's a question of Ni's relationship to Ne, and vice versa.
Ni is the "program" aspect of Ne: the range of activities that are possessed by a given object. You might say this forum, for example, is an object that contains within it a number of potential processes.
As for Ni, Ne acts as "timeline branches": choices and "alternative destinies", alternate dimensions etc.. Every moment in time has intrinsic to it various potentials for further progression. The movie "Butterfly Effect" is an excellent demonstration of Ni acting on Ne.
Cool, I'll have to check out that movie.
Originally Posted by tcaudilllg
Ni creates variations of internalized impressions to the point that it becomes difficult to hold any memory in its concrete forms. So when a Ni ego is retelling a story, due to all this changeability, for someone listening it may sound like they are "making stuff up".
I think it's worth noting that socionics' version of e/i seems not to be best read as "inner" vs "outer" to quite the same degree as is Jung's version. In Jung's version, extraversion literally was conflated with sensation, and introversion with mind.
I'm reasonably sure in socionics this has almost totally moved to S/N.
So e.g. Ne isn't consciousness of an object in the sense of some tangible stimulus, I'd say it's more like direct apprehension of the objects of consciousness (whereas Ni doesn't see states, it sees the flow between states of consciousness).
Whereas in Jung, the classic extraverted intuitive was someone who had unconsciously transmitted perceptions about literal outer (existing in sensory world) things, e.g. predicting the stock market, whereas Ni was about perceiving the collective unconscious (the subjective mind's most primordial foundation).
It sounds like this extrapolates vs makes stuff up thing is a little more related to MBTI/Jung than to socionics, and in this case I've shifted to the socionics viewpoint.
The objects of consciousness can be highly abstract things -- the reason Ne is extraverted is it isn't withdrawing away/existing in negative relation to them. Concretely this is why in socionics, alphas really intuit the full potential of an object (which could include an idea), whereas the ILI as contrasted with ILE is more likely to constantly doubt the need to pour that energy into the object of interest. This is the concrete example most often used in sociotype portraits, but isn't the only manifestation.