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Thread: A review

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    Default A review.

    Okay so I know I said that there were more important things in life to worry about than my type, but I've reverted back to feeling that I should make one last ditch effort to determine it.

    I'll try and make this short since I know most people are put off by long posts. But I want to try and explain how my type journey has evolved to its current state.

    -------------------

    When I first arrived here (not that long ago), I made a long type thread (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14732).

    A couple of posters noted that I looked like an INTj. hkkmr though was certain from the outset I was an INFp. Dioklecian suggested INFj, but his reasons were brief. munenori then said that I reminded him of himself, so he suggested an introverted NF type, and since I sounded serious, suggested INFj.

    Eunice suggested I was a Delta type, but no INFj, so she suggested ISTp (later she backed this up by saying I sounded like I had Fe PoLR and I didn’t look infantile).

    >>> Out of all the suggestions so far, I most identified with the INFj descriptions.

    A lot was made of my statements about being on time, and I think hkkmr related this to Ni ego, though others disagreed about this association.

    Kristiina then suggested 3 IP types, and ruled out INFp based on my photos, leaving INTp and ISTp. She ruled out INFj because I said I didn't mind telling people what to do if I felt confident. However niffweed and thehotelambush then chipped in and suggested my post was Fi driven with not much Fe, therefore suggesting INFj.

    Empathy and acceptance of others was another issue, which some associated with Fi while others disagreed.

    Dolphin, an INFp then said she identified with parts of my post and suggest INFp. She also told me to not take the descriptions too seriously because INFps and Beta in general are stereotyped as being more dramatic than is the case.

    Heath and Quirk Satellite Division, then chipped in with INTj and INFj respectively, though neither gave real reasons. Ezra then suggested (again with no reasons), that I was Delta or Gamma. Later he suggested Delta or Alpha, rather than Gamma.

    Sunshine Lively then voted for INFp, because of a general impression she got, and because I didn't vibe her Fi PoLR. Dee suggested ISTp.

    >>> By this stage, 9 pages in, I was starting to seriously consider ISTp, and was still skeptical about INFp, mainly because of the Beta descriptions and the fact I felt INFj fit me better. Ezra also said he saw “no evidence of Beta”.

    Meanwhile, the debate about being on time continued.

    Then, I made a post reviewing my thread so far (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=263100&postcount=99). Out of the blue, the INTj votes flowed in. First Mea, then Gilly, then Bionicgoat, then Heath again, though still no one gave reasons.

    reyn_til_runa then went through my posts in some detail, and seemed to suggest INFp. She asked some questions, which I answered, but these were not followed up (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=263440&postcount=117).

    tereg then was very helpful and summarised my posts into 52 points (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...&postcount=122), to see whether each point could be mapped onto IM elements. By this time, I had read about the hidden agenda on socionics.com, which described that of IxTp as “to love”. I felt some affinity towards this, though dee quite humorously could not see how Fi HA could be summarized by “to love”. dee went through and interpreted tereg’s list but didn’t really reach a conclusion, though he felt I was more delta than alpha.

    Slacker Mom said that based on my first post and tereg’s list, she felt that I valued Si but was not strong in it. She also detected some Ti (but could not pinpoint it) and so suggested INTj. This was when I started to take INTj more seriously. I said something like “I’m definitely not gamma” which was taken as another point towards Alpha.

    tereg then used functional analysis of the list and came up with two types – the Beta NF’s. I realize that he was still somewhat of a newcomer to socionics, but I still feel that his input was valuable and useful. I was sure I did not have Fe as base function, though Fe-creative was more plausible. And I still didn’t think that I valued Se/Ni over Si/Ne. Taking these sentiments into account, tereg revised his conclusions and arrived at the two Alpha NT’s.

    By now I felt some internal pressure to conclude the thread, and all the evidence seemed to pointed to LII.

    However then two late calls came in – INFj from HollywoodWanderer and INFp-Ni from Wittmont. HW said I looked like an IJ type but was too “affable and gregarious” to be an LII. I also told Wittmont that I didn’t identify with the Ni-base descriptions. LII it was.

    --------------- time passes --------------

    I posted some descriptions of my friends (edited out). From these, Kristiina felt that I was an INFj, because she couldn’t see an INTj writing such descriptions and valuing the things I said I valued about them. hkkmr still felt I was an INFp, though he admitted he had a “blindspot” for Fi.

    >>> I was back on the INFj track. Or at least delta. I also exchanged some PMs with a member that I was acquainted with in real life, who suggested that from the PMs I sounded more like an INFj than an ISTp.

    -------------- more time passes, the search function was used a lot --------------

    I found one of Expat’s tests – the retirement questions. I answered them (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7447&page=19) and hoped Expat would give me some input, but alas it was not to be. Niffweed however suggested Delta ST. He almost completely ruled out an Ni type because I mentioned the need for an aesthetic environment. To me, it was another point towards Delta.

    -------------- time is relentless ---------------------

    I finally found the guts to post a video of me looking very uncomfortable (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=9481&page=71). From this, reyn was sure I was an IP type, probably INFp. Niffweed, UDP and implied all agreed regarding IEI. ScarlettLux however, said I did not seem Beta to her. Baby said my video was in limbo between an uncomfortable INFj and a can't-be-stuffed INFp. Kamangir and Wittmont still felt I was INFp.

    >>> And hence my current state of confusion. I identify both with INFp and INFj (even though it doesn't make sense), though Expat's Fi/Fe analogy has made me edge slightly away from Fi.

    Unfortunately, this was not as short as I hoped it to be, but hopefully someone has read through and will help me make sense of it all.

    I really appreciate all the people who have tried to help so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I found one of Expat’s tests – the retirement questions. I answered them (http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7447&page=19) and hoped Expat would give me some input, but alas it was not to be. Niffweed however suggested Delta ST. He almost completely ruled out an Ni type because I mentioned the need for an aesthetic environment. To me, it was another point towards Delta.
    Sorry, I hadn't replied, indeed.

    Analysing your answer there in isolation - without looking at anything else - I would agree with niffweed17 that it's Delta, not sure about Delta ST in particular. Your answers reflect Delta values nicely, although - even if it sounds bizarre - the way you phrased your answer would not make me rule out INFp necessarily (although the other Beta types would be unlikely). I do think that Delta is far more likely.

    I will review the rest later (I will).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    well i already said what i thought about your type but i really love your post summarizing everything. socionics is totally subjective isn't it?

    ultimately you will have to decide for yourself. things that i think help are looking at the polr in question, looking at the leading function, and looking at your relationships with known types.

    that should nail it down.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    You have a very good memory for details, but you also seem to have difficulty understanding it all or rather, to draw a definite conclusion without outside help. You have always written well argued, very detailed, and very sensitive posts with your observations of yourself and others, and your interaction with people around you. You so very badly want to understand yourself and people in your surrounding and their attitude towards you, and make sense of things.

    Doesn't this struggle to tie it all together point to Ti Hidden Agenda?
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Sorry, I hadn't replied, indeed.

    Analysing your answer there in isolation - without looking at anything else - I would agree with niffweed17 that it's Delta, not sure about Delta ST in particular. Your answers reflect Delta values nicely, although - even if it sounds bizarre - the way you phrased your answer would not make me rule out INFp necessarily (although the other Beta types would be unlikely). I do think that Delta is far more likely.

    I will review the rest later (I will).
    thanks

    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Your signature seems Beta to me.

    I think Vimes might be a very funny sort of ISTj.
    I just thought that Vimes quote was funny and pathetic and endearing all at once.

    I think Quadra values are easy to identify with or adopt in life, because we are still influenced by the people around us and our friends. A person adopting the values of another quadra can be good indicators, but is not necessarily indicative of type.
    I think that's spot on.

    But did you dipping your feet in this river change who you are, or did it just reveal pieces of yourself that you did not know before?
    No, I don't think learning about socionics and coming to this forum has changed who I am. I'm just trying to figure out how "who I am" fits within the socionics framework (and consequently, this socionics community).

    Oh yes, are you going to answer the opposite because of the way I phrased it?
    Not sure what you mean by this?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    ultimately you will have to decide for yourself ... and looking at your relationships with known types.

    that should nail it down.
    this is also what Wittmont and dee told me, and I think its true, but I still have trouble assigning types to people I know in real life. Maybe I have to meet some of the forum members who are sure of their type in real life .

    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    You have a very good memory for details, but you also seem to have difficulty understanding it all or rather, to draw a definite conclusion without outside help. You have always written well argued, very detailed, and very sensitive posts with your observations of yourself and others, and your interaction with people around you. You so very badly want to understand yourself and people in your surrounding and their attitude towards you, and make sense of things.

    Doesn't this struggle to tie it all together point to Ti Hidden Agenda?
    It does, but I'm also overly concerned about my health, which I thought pointed to Si Hidden Agenda. But now that I think about it, its kind of stupid, since who isn't concerned about their health?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wittmont View Post
    You have a very good memory for details, but you also seem to have difficulty understanding it all or rather, to draw a definite conclusion without outside help. You have always written well argued, very detailed, and very sensitive posts with your observations of yourself and others, and your interaction with people around you. You so very badly want to understand yourself and people in your surrounding and their attitude towards you, and make sense of things.

    Doesn't this struggle to tie it all together point to Ti Hidden Agenda?
    excellent point Wittmont!

    @hellothere: i see what you mean about trying to type people that you know and not knowing exactly what their types are. it's like where do you start. hate to say this, but MBTI is not a bad way since a MBTI result can at least point one in a good overall direction. i know i had fun taking the MBTI with my friends when i first got into this. but then you have to unravel it a little when you try to apply it to socionics.
    Last edited by Blaze; 01-08-2008 at 05:49 PM.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively View Post
    @hellothere: i see what you mean about trying to type people that you know and not knowing exactly what their types are. it's like where do you start. hate to say this, but MBTI is not a bad way since a MBTI result can at least point one in a good overall direction. i know i had fun taking the MBTI with my friends when i first got into this. but then you have to unravel it a little when you try to apply it to socionics.
    yeah I've tried this - with a couple of friends - one consistently tests as an INFJ on MBTIs, though I'm fairly sure he's an INTj. The other tested once as an ENFP (though she believes her result would change from day to day) - and I thought she was also an ENFp but the case for ISFp is also strong. Most of my other friends can't be bothered sitting through a test with more than 10 questions on something as boring as themselves!


    @Expat - anymore thoughts?

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    Other forum members: from what you've seen of me around the forum, do you have any opinions to offer?


    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    I will review the rest later (I will).
    I was wondering whether you'd got around to this?

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    Your signature seems Beta to me.
    You signature seems inexistent to me.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    I feel ignored

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    I was reviewing your original type thread.

    I say EII, INFj.

    Some of the arguments for INFp seem to be using MBTI concepts.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    I've been thinking about for weeks how to help you move forward in your type clarity. But I'll go with what I have at the moment, and just hope it can help you progress.

    I hope that I'm not asking questions that have already been asked, but I keep thinking about your type and as I posting in Jessica's thread, I wanted to see if I could help you out some more.

    So, I'll do the same thing I did in there. I'll just ask a few questions. I'm kind of going along with what you feel is your largest challenge, that being between IEI and EII. Some of these questions might sound like the questions I posted in Jessica's thread, but I hope this gets the job done.

    First question. Would you say that you can assess situations or problems that have multiple options/choices and be able to see how the options are weighted and just kind of know and go with the option that is most likely? Would you tend to ignore options that have little or no chance? Or would you say that you are more meticulous in exploring each option even if you kind of know that some things aren't as likely?

    Next question. Would you say that you appreciate in others the ability to efficiently assess and work through a task and those that have a certain emphasis on quality and work ethic? Would you appreciate that sort of confidence in another person? Does it matter much to you?

    If I think of some more, I'll let you know.

    Edit: Yeah I do. Ok, so about problem solving. Let's say you have a problem with multiple choices. Would you say that you go about solving that problem in a sort of trial-and-error method and eliminate the choices that won't work to arrive at a solution that does work? Or, would you say that you can see a question or problem and if you know the answer to the question, you just go with the answer without looking at the other choices because there's little chance it could be anything else?
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    I was reviewing your original type thread.

    I say EII, INFj.

    Some of the arguments for INFp seem to be using MBTI concepts.
    Thank you - though going by your analogy regarding Fi vs. Fe, I am beginning to doubt I am an Fi type - my feelings towards a person changes too easily, depending on the feeling I have observed them show to me or to others most recently.

    For example, if when I first meet someone, they are aloof and stand-offish towards me, I may not take away a positive impression of them. But then if the next time I meet them they take more interest in me, or do something which I find amusing or admirable, it would be easy for me to feel something positive towards that person.

    Also recently, one of my friends (person A - a fairly good friend) did something very wrong (as most people would consider it) by another one of my friends (person B - a very good friend). Now despite hurting person B, the next time I met person A I was able to get along with him, because I understood the circumstances which led to the event, and I felt no need to be judgmental towards him. And because person A responded positively to the fact that I was treating him with good will despite being close to person B, my feelings towards person A shifted back from being overly negative.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    I hope that I'm not asking questions that have already been asked, but I keep thinking about your type and as I posting in Jessica's thread, I wanted to see if I could help you out some more.
    thanks, I really appreciate it - I hope I answer the questions adequately

    First question. Would you say that you can assess situations or problems that have multiple options/choices and be able to see how the options are weighted and just kind of know and go with the option that is most likely? Would you tend to ignore options that have little or no chance? Or would you say that you are more meticulous in exploring each option even if you kind of know that some things aren't as likely?
    I'm trying to completely understand this question - could you give me an example of such a situation?

    Next question. Would you say that you appreciate in others the ability to efficiently assess and work through a task and those that have a certain emphasis on quality and work ethic? Would you appreciate that sort of confidence in another person? Does it matter much to you?
    "in others the ability to efficiently assess and work through a task" - I'm not so sure. To me, efficiency doesn't *really* matter a great deal.

    "those that have a certain emphasis on quality and work ethic" - I guess so, because these are things that I strive to do, so I would appreciate someone who would appreciate it in me.

    Ok, so about problem solving. Let's say you have a problem with multiple choices. Would you say that you go about solving that problem in a sort of trial-and-error method and eliminate the choices that won't work to arrive at a solution that does work? Or, would you say that you can see a question or problem and if you know the answer to the question, you just go with the answer without looking at the other choices because there's little chance it could be anything else?
    I think I'm more of the first - but it depends - if I had a limited amount of time and I was almost completely sure of the correct answer, I would take the second approach. But I'd rather explore the other choices, even if I was sure of the correct choice, if only to understand why the other choices were given.

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    Ok, let's say that you were typing someone that you had a fairly good grasp on. So, they can be any one of 16 types. And you probably have a good understanding of what quadra values are.

    So, the discussion goes on in a thread, and you're reading people's views on their type, and it seems as though for the most part people are generally saying 2 or 3 types.

    So then you go on your own time to evaluate the person yourself because you want to know for yourself.

    And this is going to be really subtle, I don't want to give the impression that you like are really actively doing this, it would be very subtle in this case. But when you start your assessment, do you kind go in some manner like this "Well, we can eliminate this quadra and this quadra right off the bat because _____ (list reasons why). Ok, that leaves us with this and this quadra. Ok, so let's focus on this one here, ok, why don't these types work.... ok, yeah because ____. So that leaves ___" etc etc, I think you get the point.

    Or, would you say it's more like this "Well, I'm not going to even think about this and this quadra, that just doesn't make any logical sense, so most of the people here are saying this type and this type..." and then start from there.

    The difference between the first and the second is in the first, even though I'm not spending a lot of time on it, I still look at it and spend energy on "unlikely" choices and eliminate it just to make sure. In the second one, I'm focusing my energy on what's the most likely and starting at that point.


    Which method do you think you'd follow if you were typing someone?
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I think I'm more of the first - but it depends - if I had a limited amount of time and I was almost completely sure of the correct answer, I would take the second approach. But I'd rather explore the other choices, even if I was sure of the correct choice, if only to understand why the other choices were given.
    Yeah I was assuming you had enough time at your disposal. In other words, the one that makes you feel most comfortable to do (not pressure packed)
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    Which method do you think you'd follow if you were typing someone?
    Honestly, I think I would take the second approach, even though the first approach is probably better - I'm just not meticulous enough to take it. BUT - if I feel later on that the "most likely" choices just don't fit, then I would go back and consider the unlikely choices, the ones that would have been considered and ruled out in the first approach.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post

    Also recently, one of my friends (person A - a fairly good friend) did something very wrong (as most people would consider it) by another one of my friends (person B - a very good friend). Now despite hurting person B, the next time I met person A I was able to get along with him, because I understood the circumstances which led to the event, and I felt no need to be judgmental towards him. And because person A responded positively to the fact that I was treating him with good will despite being close to person B, my feelings towards person A shifted back from being overly negative.
    Fwiw, in these situations I feel j types tend to want you to side with them, with the B against the A in this case. But like you if I can see the A person's motives and know the circumstances I may well remain friends with A, even if it upsets B. That's my experience anyway, I cannot renounce A just to please B if it is not fair to A even if A screwed up.
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    Honestly, I think I would take the second approach, even though the first approach is probably better - I'm just not meticulous enough to take it. BUT - if I feel later on that the "most likely" choices just don't fit, then I would go back and consider the unlikely choices, the ones that would have been considered and ruled out in the first approach.

    Would you take the first approach because of perceived confidence of people's thoughts? Or would you kind of make your own assessment independent of other people's thoughts. Basically, I'm asking if someone seems to be authoritative on a subject, do you see yourself going along with it until it doesn't make sense for some reason.

    Let's say in this example the perception to you was not everyone felt very confident about the person's type that you wish to type. Would your starting point be with what people are saying, quickly see you're not making any progress, then "start from scratch" and look at the possibilities?
    INFj

    9w1 sp/sx

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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    Would you take the first approach because of perceived confidence of people's thoughts? Or would you kind of make your own assessment independent of other people's thoughts. Basically, I'm asking if someone seems to be authoritative on a subject, do you see yourself going along with it until it doesn't make sense for some reason.

    Let's say in this example the perception to you was not everyone felt very confident about the person's type that you wish to type. Would your starting point be with what people are saying, quickly see you're not making any progress, then "start from scratch" and look at the possibilities?
    although I shouldn't, I do have a tendency to go along with the opinion of someone who seems to be authoritative on a subject (though by authoritative I mean someone who others regard highly, not just like someone who is arrogant and confident in his/her own thoughts despite others disagreeing)

    Second paragraph - yep

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    although I shouldn't, I do have a tendency to go along with the opinion of someone who seems to be authoritative on a subject (though by authoritative I mean someone who others regard highly, not just like someone who is arrogant and confident in his/her own thoughts despite others disagreeing)

    Second paragraph - yep
    Yeah, that's what I was getting at as well.


    This all points to EII in my opinion, consistently.

    This kind of assessing or eliminating possibilities as you go along seems in my opinion, and even though you have cited a counter-example (if you don't have enough time), trial-and error type things, it seems that you would prefer if you had the time to look at all of the possibilities.

    And then when I asked you about do you look at all of the possibilities even if they might not be realistic (though you have an idea if they aren't realistic, but you look at it for your own peace of mind) seems to me.

    This means to me (and I think is similar to what I do) that in order to make a decision or draw a conclusion about something, the picture needs to be pretty clear in your mind.

    If you were strong, then I think you would have an affinity to be able to take a series of facts that you might not have complete information about but still be able to draw a reasonable conclusion about it without the need to necessarily look at everything related to it. That's not to say that you can't or don't. I'm talking about the amount of ease that it would take to do it.


    Let me ask you one more question. This is about memorization. Let's say someone gave you a list of terms and definitions and were asked to memorize it with an infinite amount of time available to you; you can learn the words in any way you wish.

    When you memorize something would you say that you do it like this:
    Take the first word and definition and remember it to where you can recite it without looking at the list.
    Take the second word, remember it, and "layer" it on top of the first, meaning after you remember it you recite the first and the second.
    Take the third word, remember it, "layer" it on top of the first two by reciting the first, second and third words and terms in that order.

    Etc...

    So this is basically something where you remember things in "sequence" and you can trace back through the sequence to "land" on a word if you need to recall it.

    Or,

    You take the list of words, and you go in a more random order and you learn the meaning of the word and there isn't a need to layer the words because you feel confident that if you see the word you can recall the meaning of the word.


    This can also be related to conversation sequences. Have you found yourself in a conversation, then the conversation takes a tangent, then someone asks you "Wait, what were we just talking about?" Can you in your mind be able to kind of go step by step backwards in time and be able with relative success be able to get the conversation going "forward"? Can you relate to that to some degree?
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    Let me ask you one more question. This is about memorization. Let's say someone gave you a list of terms and definitions and were asked to memorize it with an infinite amount of time available to you; you can learn the words in any way you wish.

    When you memorize something would you say that you do it like this:
    Take the first word and definition and remember it to where you can recite it without looking at the list.
    Take the second word, remember it, and "layer" it on top of the first, meaning after you remember it you recite the first and the second.
    Take the third word, remember it, "layer" it on top of the first two by reciting the first, second and third words and terms in that order.

    Etc...

    So this is basically something where you remember things in "sequence" and you can trace back through the sequence to "land" on a word if you need to recall it.

    Or,

    You take the list of words, and you go in a more random order and you learn the meaning of the word and there isn't a need to layer the words because you feel confident that if you see the word you can recall the meaning of the word.
    As I read the first option, I thought "yeah I would do that" - but then I read the second and thought "yeah I also do that". But the thing is when I was reading the first option, I was just thinking about memorising a list of unrelated words.

    But your question was about a list of definitions - with this I would be more confident in conceptualising the definitions and associating them to the words, which would mean there would be no need for the first approach. I'd probably just read through the list and note the words where the associations between the word and the definition were most clear, and then I'd probably go back to the "harder" words and concentrate on them for a while.

    edit: Though I noticed you said "recite [the definition] without looking at the list" - this strikes me as having to recall the definition word for word - If I had to do this, then I would probably revert to the first approach. If I just needed to explain the definition however I wanted to (though perhaps sometimes I would recall it word for word), then yeah the second approach would be taken.

    This can also be related to conversation sequences. Have you found yourself in a conversation, then the conversation takes a tangent, then someone asks you "Wait, what were we just talking about?" Can you in your mind be able to kind of go step by step backwards in time and be able with relative success be able to get the conversation going "forward"? Can you relate to that to some degree?
    I can relate to some degree - but I wouldn't say it would be easy for me (though I guess its relative and I don't know how easy it would for others) - I'd have to think about it for a while and then I'd suddenly remember "oh yeah *this* is how we got to this point".

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    edit: Though I noticed you said "recite [the definition] without looking at the list" - this strikes me as having to recall the definition word for word - If I had to do this, then I would probably revert to the first approach. If I just needed to explain the definition however I wanted to (though perhaps sometimes I would recall it word for word), then yeah the second approach would be taken.
    Yes, the crux of what I was wanting you to think about was about memorization. I can understand you doing the second approach if you just need to get the "gist" of words and definitions. But yeah I meant word for word things.


    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I can relate to some degree - but I wouldn't say it would be easy for me (though I guess its relative and I don't know how easy it would for others) - I'd have to think about it for a while and then I'd suddenly remember "oh yeah *this* is how we got to this point".
    I guess what I was trying you to think about was if someone asks you that question, do you (in your mind) try to go from point to point backwards in time (what I mean by point to point is some word or phrase you remember the person saying right before the question is asked, then remembering "what came before that") and then if that doesn't work, starting from a relative "beginning" and work your way forward.

    I'm just trying to gage how your mind might process a question like that.
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    Btw, if someone needs to chime in to correct or point out an error in anything I've said, please do. I don't want to feel like I'm leading him down a path that he shouldn't be going down if my explanations are not correct.
    INFj

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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    I guess what I was trying you to think about was if someone asks you that question, do you (in your mind) try to go from point to point backwards in time (what I mean by point to point is some word or phrase you remember the person saying right before the question is asked, then remembering "what came before that") and then if that doesn't work, starting from a relative "beginning" and work your way forward.
    I don't really recall doing something like this - its more I just try to connect the current topic to what I remember the original topic to be. Though who knows, maybe I actually *DO* do this, but just so 'automatically' that I can't recall doing it right now

    and hmm word-for-word definitions... I hate doing things like this, so its hard for me to say - I would probably take the first approach for a while, but then I would tire of it and then start to look for words with easy to recall definitions and then learn them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I don't really recall doing something like this - its more I just try to connect the current topic to what I remember the original topic to be. Though who knows, maybe I actually *DO* do this, but just so 'automatically' that I can't recall doing it right now

    and hmm word-for-word definitions... I hate doing things like this, so its hard for me to say - I would probably take the first approach for a while, but then I would tire of it and then start to look for words with easy to recall definitions and then learn them.
    I'm assuming that for the words you do choose to memorize (though you don't like to do it), your preferred method is to "layer" it, as I described above.

    Edit: Or at least go with it for as long as you can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    I'm assuming that for the words you do choose to memorize (though you don't like to do it), your preferred method is to "layer" it, as I described above.

    Edit: Or at least go with it for as long as you can.
    I guess so, it would be a kind of cognitive "I know this is probably the best way to do it". Though I wouldn't have the discipline to continue with it for too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    I guess so, it would be a kind of cognitive "I know this is probably the best way to do it". Though I wouldn't have the discipline to continue with it for too long.

    Is this in your eyes the primary reason why you dislike tasks like this?
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    Just on a completely different note, I went through the wikisocion entries on the Reinin dichotomies. I deliberately ignored the 4 Jungian dichotomies, the Static/Dynamic dichotomy and the the dichotomies which separate the quadras.

    This is what I chose for myself:

    Carefree / Farsighted [fairly sure]
    Yielding / Obstinate [fairly sure]
    Tactical / Strategic [not sure]
    Constructivist / Emotivist [somewhat sure]
    Positivist / Negativist [fairly sure]
    Lefist / Rightist [fairly sure]
    Asking / Declaring [quite sure - which is why I had trouble making that video]

    when I entered these with moderate preference into the Reinin calculator, it gave INFp clearly above everything else. When I maxed out each of these preferences, it gave 100% INFp.

    Though others have criticised the dichotomies, and a description of some of them are missing from wikisocion, so its likely that I've misunderstood a few.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tereg View Post
    Is this in your eyes the primary reason why you dislike tasks like this?

    Partly - but mainly I just don't see the point of having to memorise something word for word. Understanding is more important in my opinion

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    I'm still wanting to say EII.

    One quality that you have consistently shown is being able to see and recognize exceptions to the rule, which you have pointed out in almost every question you've answered that I've asked.

    "Yes, but when ____ is the case, then ..."
    "Partially, but there are times when ____ "
    "I don't know because on one hand ____, and on the other hand ____."

    I don't think an strong type would have divergent thought like that.

    In my opinion focuses on bringing things more into focus and converging to a point. You would take these kind of unknowns or exceptions and sort of recognize that they are probably weighted less, but the drive towards a point isn't really hindered. I think that is more about divergent paths and being able to see things like exceptions to the rule and considering other related points before coming to a conclusion.

    That's not to say that isn't about not coming to an eventual conclusion. (I mean, after all, you are wanting to know what your type is.) It just means that coming to a conclusion requires a certain level of comfort about the information.

    This whole typing process of yours kind of illustrates this. When one thing seems to look like it might fit, something over there looks like it might fit as well. Or the thing you are trying fits, but maybe doesn't feel like it completely fits you, so it looks like you look at other things to compare how other things fit.

    See what I mean? In my eyes, that's what seems to be going on just through this process. And that's why I don't think you have a base, because you really do consider exceptions and other factors to a given situation before you can draw your own conclusion.
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    yeah I see what you mean, you've described me pretty well there.

    I was just wondering though, whether it could just mean that I am "strong" in but don't necessarily value it? I mean sometimes I wish I could be less like that. Could all those things you've mentioned also be consistent with in the Id block?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellothere View Post
    yeah I see what you mean, you've described me pretty well there.

    I was just wondering though, whether it could just mean that I am "strong" in but don't necessarily value it? I mean sometimes I wish I could be less like that. Could all those things you've mentioned also be consistent with in the Id block?
    In my opinion, Ne feels quite prominent within you. I don't get the impression that it's strong, but subdued.

    This is the Ne-creative description from Filatova EII

    Ne – the function of the implementation of the program. The EII seeks true values in life and finds meaning in existence through harmony in her relations with other people. She particularly values high spirituality and high morals. As far back as youth the EII uses her imagination to form a certain moral ideal, which she then attempts to reach. At the foundation of this function frequently is found the development of a feeling of duty. Thus the smallest divergence in behaviour away from the ideal is dealt with severely, internally. This tendency towards self-perfection can itself become a tyrant. This tyranny of duty, in its extreme manifestations, can lead the EII to develop contempt for herself. It can also lead her to blame others when their behaviour fails to correspond with said representation of decency. This sort of maximization, which frequently characterizes itself in the EII’s youth can lead to confrontation with her contemporaries. Such confrontations are difficult tests, which weigh heavily upon her.
    I hope I'm not taking this out of context, but you seem to be cognitively aware of a certain... hmm... standard? that you'd like to achieve for yourself. And when you become aware of a divergence from it, it does (at least outwardly) seem like it affects you in an internal way and a call to try to adjust yourself to move towards your ideal.

    This to me sounds like Fi blocked with Ne. You are aware of your divergent tendencies, and that bothers you, and because it does diverge away from what you want, it becomes a matter of ethics for you to try to make an internal change.


    Just my opinion though.
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    One of my (real life) friends has recently gotten into Socionics and he's been reading the descriptions on Wikisocion and typing people that way (not an ideal method I know, but its what he is comfortable with at the moment). He says sometimes when he reads a description a person he knows just 'jumps out' from it. He and I agree on the typing of a few people we know, but guess which type I 'jumped out' from?

    ILI!

    What's up with that?

    Hmm, I wonder if Salawa has any opinion on my type...

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    Going along with my unhelpful typing efforts, I think you're Ni leading right now, and I think you're probably IEI.

    The problem is if you ask me why, I can't say...


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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Going along with my unhelpful typing efforts, I think you're Ni leading right now, and I think you're probably IEI.

    The problem is if you ask me why, I can't say...


    Thanks for the input though, it is appreciated (even if you can't say why). I wonder why I seem to come across so different here than in real life, my friends read the IEI descriptions and think "no way is that you"

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    I believe INFp-Ni can be mistaken for INTp at first, or even second, glance. Also some socionics descriptions of INFp's are heavily towards the more extraverted Fe subtype. INFp-INTp-INFj can seem similar at times and I don't think it is a coincidence these types seem to come up for you, hellothere.
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



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    ^No...

    Okay, I watched his video and now I'm agreeing with the EII proposal of his type. Mainly because something just seems very leading in there... he's very concerned about how his friend felt and then coming up with all the reasons/perpectives about why he shouldn't have been made to feel bad... it seems FiNe to me...

    Please take that with some grains of salt.

    Dee, why did you think his pictures meant he couldn't be IEI.
    Last edited by inumbra; 01-21-2008 at 03:43 AM. Reason: watched vid

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    In my original thread, Wittmont was of the opinion that I VI'd like an INFp. So I guess there's a difference of opinion there

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    Okay I "lied" in my last edit. Now that I have went back and watched the *entire* video I'm confused again... EII, IEI, EII, IEI, EII, IEI... I just don't know.

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