VI me, for great justice

[Mona]

So I've been madly reading about Socionics lately, and though I'm convinced of my MBTI type, since I have joined I have become further convinced of the fairly drastic difference between MBTI and Socionics. For this reason, I ask you to disregard any previous post you may have seen of mine (unlikely, I am a lurker by nature) and tell me what you think I am based on images. Forgive the post-processing on the first image, of course.





While I hold skeptical views of VI, I've seen a good deal of interesting typing here, so here goes.

[hellothere]

from what I can remember, you look a bit like Salawa (correct me if I'm wrong Salawa), who is ENTj?

[UDP]

That second photo makes you look just like an IEI I know, but I'm not sure if it is really indicative of your type.

[Minde]

Did you post-process the first one yourself?

[rockclimber]

the first one reminds me of my ISFj sister.

[Exodus]

Definitely Gamma NT. I would say ENTj. You actually look a lot like Joy.

[cracka]

You actually look a lot like Joy.

Ah, i didn't wanna be the first to say it but yeah, i saw the resemblance right off the bat. In the first pic at least.

[Mona]

Did you post-process the first one yourself?

No, someone else did... it was the only one I had in my photobucket account that was more recent than the others.

I liked the quote in my signature because I've been reading that book lately and I found it to be quite apt. I gravitate towards concise descriptions of emotional states. =P Actually, I was looking for a specific quote by Chesterton on the suicide of thought, wherein he states that atheism and agnosticism are, in short, mental suicide. It makes more sense in his words; I'll dig out that quote sometime today.

More photos. First was taken around the time the first picture was taken. Second is blurry, as it was a webcam, and is considerably more recent than the others. Pardon the slight posiness; my photos are usually stiffer than that, it seems...

[implied]

you do look a lot like username joy. writing style reminds me of salawa.


my guess right now is gamma. g.k. chesterton seems to be a fave among gammanians, eh?

[Gilly]

Definitely Gamma NT. I would say ENTj. You actually look a lot like Joy.

Yup.

An obvious resemblance to the two female LIEs her on the board...unless she describes herself completely differently, I'm not sure we need much more

[Mona]

Hah.
I'm not an E. People drain me and I have a difficult time being around large groups of them. I tend to limit my conversations to those with close and trusted friends - the number of which, of course, I could count on one hand.

I agree with the N, but the T I have trouble agreeing with... I've always seen myself as F. I don't necessarily have trouble expressing my feelings in both verbal and nonverbal ways, but talking about them with people I don't know very well is somewhat difficult except if I know that what I say won't be dissected. I do like intelligent debates, but I tire of them, especially if it's a hostile environment. And while I don't like to be contradicted, I'm fairly patient with those who don't agree with me. If things get nasty (i.e.: name-calling, serious breaches of rationality when it comes to arguing), I've heard a lot of people say that my eyes flash (even that my eyes darken?), but I tend to say something sarcastic and satiric and leave it at that.

I write a lot, and usually it pertains to emotion. I'm a perfectionist and yet very insecure; I won a national scholarship for a short story (perfect score, etc) and yet I'm still very certain my writing voice is sub-par and naive.

Of course, I also have a bit of an inferiority complex which may skew, and I'm talking based on MBTI ideology, so I probably ought to go read more of the Socionics Wiki.

[Ezra]

you look a bit like Salawa

Except younger, and with longer, straighter hair.

[Wittmont]

Hah.
I'm not an E. People drain me and I have a difficult time being around large groups of them. I tend to limit my conversations to those with close and trusted friends - the number of which, of course, I could count on one hand.

I agree with the N, but the T I have trouble agreeing with... I've always seen myself as F. I don't necessarily have trouble expressing my feelings in both verbal and nonverbal ways, but talking about them with people I don't know very well is somewhat difficult except if I know that what I say won't be dissected. I do like intelligent debates, but I tire of them, especially if it's a hostile environment. And while I don't like to be contradicted, I'm fairly patient with those who don't agree with me. If things get nasty (i.e.: name-calling, serious breaches of rationality when it comes to arguing), I've heard a lot of people say that my eyes flash (even that my eyes darken?), but I tend to say something sarcastic and satiric and leave it at that.

I write a lot, and usually it pertains to emotion. I'm a perfectionist and yet very insecure; I won a national scholarship for a short story (perfect score, etc) and yet I'm still very certain my writing voice is sub-par and naive.

Of course, I also have a bit of an inferiority complex which may skew, and I'm talking based on MBTI ideology, so I probably ought to go read more of the Socionics Wiki.

ISFj is not a bad shout then. You both look and sound like an ESI I know. That "serious breach of rationality" part made me Lol

[Slacker]

I'm not a big fan of VI, but I have to admit that you look a LOT like a younger Joy. A LOT.

Maybe VI is pointing toward Gamma then? Looking like someone doesn't make you the same type. It could point toward or away from some direction.

[Expat]

Hah.
I'm not an E. People drain me and I have a difficult time being around large groups of them. I tend to limit my conversations to those with close and trusted friends - the number of which, of course, I could count on one hand.

In Socionics, that points toward Gamma and Delta, not "I".

I agree with the N, but the T I have trouble agreeing with... I've always seen myself as F. I don't necessarily have trouble expressing my feelings in both verbal and nonverbal ways, but talking about them with people I don't know very well is somewhat difficult except if I know that what I say won't be dissected. I do like intelligent debates, but I tire of them, especially if it's a hostile environment. And while I don't like to be contradicted, I'm fairly patient with those who don't agree with me. If things get nasty (i.e.: name-calling, serious breaches of rationality when it comes to arguing), I've heard a lot of people say that my eyes flash (even that my eyes darken?), but I tend to say something sarcastic and satiric and leave it at that.

I write a lot, and usually it pertains to emotion. I'm a perfectionist and yet very insecure; I won a national scholarship for a short story (perfect score, etc) and yet I'm still very certain my writing voice is sub-par and naive.

Of course, I also have a bit of an inferiority complex which may skew, and I'm talking based on MBTI ideology, so I probably ought to go read more of the Socionics Wiki.

Then perhaps ESI, but I think Gamma is very obvious.

[Mona]

Interesting responses, all. So far, I've been typed all over the board based on VI. Ah well, I've had more identity crises than I can recall. What's another one?

For those who type me Gamma, from reading the Socionics Wiki I can probably see why.

Laughter and very obvious displays of emotion are subdued, instead, there is a lot of smiling, amusement with ironic and witty remarks or, when serious subjects or not very happy personal experiences are discussed, a serious demeanour. Even such small groups tend to split into smaller ones; perhaps 3 is the ideal "group" size for Gammas.

On the other hand, I looked at the Delta page on the Wiki.

Delta types reject dramatism and emotional affect in favor of wry humor and understatement.

That is me. I went on to read the EII page on the Socionics Wiki, and it appears to describe me very aptly. These are parts that describe me very well:

The EII does not like to be contradicted, and will often quietly mock those who confront her, but always with a smile.

EIIs have a great admiration for people who are able to get things done neatly and efficiently in the outside world. They themselves consistently forget to consider whether their activities are actually achieving their intended goal, whether their time spent is bringing worthy proceeds, and whether their activities are organized in the most rational way. They subconsciously expect and appreciate it when others take interest in the effectiveness of their activities and helps to take an objective look at what they are doing.

While at a party, the EII is likely to cling to the individual they are most comfortable being around.

The individual is quite adept at following discussions on the developments of present trends into the future and at contributing to them on occasion if he feels so inclined, but he does not take that as seriously compared to investigating possibilities in the areas he is interested in at present. He usually dismisses supernatural claims as being silly, wishful thinking, unless they happen to be related to the very specific religion he feels inclined to believe in and which he may be inclined to make part of his leisure activities.

I'm curious, however, what bearing does the content of my signature have on my personality? It would seem more logical that someone can be better described/typed based on something they themselves say, over a quote from someone like Churchill, Chesterton, or McCartney...

[Expat]

Have you looked at the bits referring to Extraverted Sensing in EII? Do they also fit you? Because what you listed is also consistent with ESI.

[implied]

I'm curious, however, what bearing does the content of my signature have on my personality? It would seem more logical that someone can be better described/typed based on something they themselves say, over a quote from someone like Churchill, Chesterton, or McCartney...

again, this is a weird correlation and nothing to bank on in typing someone, but i do think g.k. is gamma, most likely INTp. (fwiw, i also considered that he could be INFj. he's a Fi valuer, i think?)

[aestrivex]

i skimmed this thread and saw this, and thought it was a photo of joy until i scrolled down to see people saying "you look a lot like joy." (not trying to say anything about your type here ftr).

[Mona]

Have you looked at the bits referring to Extraverted Sensing in EII? Do they also fit you? Because what you listed is also consistent with ESI.

You mean this? EIIs are typically negligent of their surroundings and have difficulty keeping track of objects or constantly monitoring things and people around them. Yes. It fits me well. I have a habit of losing track of things, but I have lately forced myself to keep track of where they are because I feel that people feel that I'm incompetent/incapable of taking care of an object if I can't find something.

I lose my environment often, too. I can sit down and do something - almost anything, reading a book, listening to music, working with my hands, writing, watch a movie - and lose half the day doing so. The computer has been like that for me; I spend hours upon hours doing nearly anything.

Outsiders often think the EII is oblivious to reality because they will often neglecting basic needs.

My mother seems to pick on that. (She says she's an MBTI INFJ, somehow.)

[Expat]

Okay. Would you say that pushy, even aggressive people of the sort, "we're doing it my way because I'm saying that's the way it's going to be. I don't care what your opinion is. End of story" - do they disturb you, or do you find it fairly easy to stand up to them?

[Mona]

Okay. Would you say that pushy, even aggressive people of the sort, "we're doing it my way because I'm saying that's the way it's going to be. I don't care what your opinion is. End of story" - do they disturb you, or do you find it fairly easy to stand up to them?

If I'm in a comfortable situation - if they're the only pushy person around, and I'm in a group of acquaintances - then I will stand up to them if their "way" is, in my opinion, irrational, illogical, or wrong. If I'm in a mixed group, I may express my opinion, but I don't make a big deal about it if it's not taken. I try not to be wrong in the eyes of others. If something big is at stake (my grades, a deadline, etc), however, I can step in and take charge only for the purpose of getting something done.

If I can't exactly express my feelings, or people misunderstand me, I am mentally bothered by the pushy person's presence.

[Expat]

I try not to be wrong in the eyes of others.

Why? Why do you care what others think?

[Mona]

Why? Why do you care what others think?

Because I know how many people respond when they don't like someone.. from experience. Also fear, I would presume, of things like that happening again.

[implied]

photobucket account name

[Gilly]

[Mona]

Stupid white people...

Billions of Chinese people laugh at your mental suicide. Good luck dreaming about hell..

I'm sure.
We're all very open-minded here, aren't we?

[tcaudilllg]

Of course, I also have a bit of an inferiority complex which may skew, and I'm talking based on MBTI ideology, so I probably ought to go read more of the Socionics Wiki.

I don't mean to be blunt, but you've obviously picked that up from somewhere, and don't really have a clue what "inferiority complex" really means. Neither do I, for that matter.

It's just a sign of weak Fi.

I'm certain you are ENTj. You see yourself as lacking in knowledge and hope that a process of discussion will help you attain that knowledge. -Te -> +Ni

[Hot Scalding Gayser]

Would you say that pushy, even aggressive people of the sort, "we're doing it my way because I'm saying that's the way it's going to be. I don't care what your opinion is. End of story" - do they disturb you, or do you find it fairly easy to stand up to them?

Oh come on Expat. You have to give more options than that. I think EVERYONE is disturbed by that kind of behavior (even victims) because well, it's just nasty, anti-human and annoying as hell. I'd say they're disturbed AND they stand up to them. ((Or they allow themselves to get bullied, but is that really a type thing? The likelihood of how quick you stand up to them most certainly is but I'd think we all would eventually.))

Anyways, yeah, leave that shit in a BDSM fantasy where it belongs people.

[Minde]

I'm sure.
We're all very open-minded here, aren't we?

Don't mind hkkmr, Mona. There are ones like him here, yes, but there are lots of very open and friendly ones, too. You are free to believe as you choose.

[implied]

agreed.

good thing to agree on. (; she did ask!

i thought orthodoxy tried to present several Ni+Ti arguments in favor of faith. when he discusses love/relationships between people and other people/or their deity - i'm not so sure that's Fi. but i didn't find much Fe in the writing overall.

i don't necessarily agree with g.k.'s arguments - but i know multiple gamma NT who do.

based on his slow-paced personal life (his state of health, college career, battles with depression) IP temperament could work.

no, i don't think he's heavy on the Fe, at all. his life approach basically leads me to believe as well that he'd have to be IP temperament, too. nice, i love it when we agree. i also know a few gamma NT who like him quite a bit.

[Ezra]

Right, so she looks a lot more like Joy than Salawa, both of whom are LIEs, and people are thinking Gamma NT.

Mona, some advice: treat VI with caution. It's effectively useless.

[Expat]

Mona, some advice: treat VI with caution. It's effectively useless.

If you go by how a person resembles another due to fixed facial features, I tend to agree. When I was about 20, my ILE brother 23, and my SEI father, a youthful 51, everyone said that the three of us looked very alike (people who only knew my brother would "recognize" me on the street, as in "are you his brother?"). That doesn't make us of similar types.

But there's more to VI than that.

[Mona]

hkkmr: What would be close-minded would be attempting to give you a round of arguments why atheism is what Chesterton called it, or why I disagree with Communism, etc. Does having a quote in one's signature mean one agrees completely and would fight to the death for the truth of that statement? If I wanted to spark a debate about G. K. Chesterton, and other "stupid white people," I would have started one myself.

Minde:

ifmd95 / implied: I like the book, but it becomes only slightly boring after a while; he tends to ramble on. If I get myself into the book I read with enjoyment at his succinct descriptions.

Ezra: I am not putting much stock in VI, to be honest; I've been typed all over the board.

People (mostly acquaintances) frequently come to me for emotional advice.
With my closest friend - and online friends - I typically have no problem expressing my feelings. However, with those who are closer friends offline, I need a lot of time to think about what I am going to say and why. I often wait until it is too late to reveal something important/emotionally charged about myself, and then either feeling guilty for not saying it, relieved I don't have to say it, or a combination of both.
I have the most inexplicable feelings sometimes, and I need my closest friend to support me as figure out why/what I am feeling. =P

[hellothere]

I have the most inexplicable feelings sometimes, and I need my closest friend to support me as figure out why/what I am feeling. =P

Is this a sign of weak ?

[munenori2]

hkkmr: What would be close-minded would be attempting to give you a round of arguments why atheism is what Chesterton called it, or why I disagree with Communism, etc. Does having a quote in one's signature mean one agrees completely and would fight to the death for the truth of that statement? If I wanted to spark a debate about G. K. Chesterton, and other "stupid white people," I would have started one myself.

I feel ya there. In some cases it can, but sometimes people will take things far too seriously. I guess I mean that in the sense of making strong assumptions about the person. There can be elements of truth to what people say that resonate with different people, which in a way is part of what socionics is about, right?

In terms of V.I.ing you, I guess I would go gamma, but I do think we'd get along in life (though my ability in V.I. is prone to error and lacks the air of pure, unembroidered experience!). I agree with hellothere that your statement (which I sadly deleted from your quote, GRRRRR @ myself) could point towards an Fi in the super-id. Gamma NT?

Btw, is "for great justice" from the thread title drawn from anywhere in particular? For some reason it sounds strangely familiar to me.

[implied]

I feel ya there. In some cases it can, but sometimes people will take things far too seriously. I guess I mean that in the sense of making strong assumptions about the person. There can be elements of truth to what people say that resonate with different people, which in a way is part of what socionics is about, right?

In terms of V.I.ing you, I guess I would go gamma, but I do think we'd get along in life (though my ability in V.I. is prone to error and lacks the air of pure, unembroidered experience!). I agree with hellothere that your statement (which I sadly deleted from your quote, GRRRRR @ myself) could point towards an Fi in the super-id. Gamma NT?

Btw, is "for great justice" from the thread title drawn from anywhere in particular? For some reason it sounds strangely familiar to me.

take off every zig.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_you...e_belong_to_us

at least that's what i thought of. /:

[Mediator Kam]

I need to quote that more.....

[Mona]

take off every zig.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_you...e_belong_to_us

at least that's what i thought of. /:

Indeed.
I have always been quite amused by the breach* of language rules there. I sing the song, however, with just as much emotion as it would have been stated.

* ... which I typed as "breech" about ten times. What.

My family is very Alpha, by the way. And I showed my father the Socionics Wiki, and I'm pretty sure he's ILE. We clash sometimes, if that helps.

[Expat]

I think Mona values both and , but she seems to be equally confident/non-confident in both, especially when she mentions thinks like "inferiority complex" --which I think is significant.

Anyway, I will place a small bet on LIE for the moment.