View Poll Results: LSI or SLE?

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  • LSI-Se

    1 5.88%
  • LSI-Ti

    0 0%
  • SLE-Se

    2 11.76%
  • SLE-Ti

    9 52.94%
  • Other (please specify)

    5 29.41%
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Thread: LSI or SLE?

  1. #1
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default LSI or SLE?

    I'm only discussing this because it's come up the consensus list.

    There are problems with both.

    If I am an SLE, I conflict with Minde, who - quite frankly - I don't conflict with. In fact, I find her character rather appealing. Also, I get on surprisingly well with my best friends (LII and IEE) for an SLE.

    If I am an LSI, it means I conflict with not only my best friend, but also my mother and Slacker Mom, who herself admitted that she could see my as a Ne type, or at least someone who was Ne valuing. Even if I'm not good with Ne, does this really show that it is my PoLR or even my third function?

    I'm attracted to ScarlettLux much more than I am to any of the IEIs on here (maybe I've just got high standards), and I'm sure she is an EIE, and to be honest, I like the use of Fe when it's used well. I'm certainly not repulsed to the extent that niffweed is by her video. I think it's used well by her. I HATE some uses of it, such as in the way Alphas use it, or those people at a party to make you "SMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILE!!!" who try to use it and fail dismally.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  2. #2
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    And I've just noticed that I've put SLE in lower case on the last poll option. That really annoys me.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  3. #3
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    You seem like an extrovert to me. However, it's been said that Se-LSI is the most Socionically "extroverted-seeming" of all introverts, so eh. I still say SLE-Ti.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  4. #4
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    I think LSI is less likely than SLE, because your Ti seems more irrational. What you dislike is Fe+Si, not Fe+Ni.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  5. #5

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    you are perhaps taking socionics too seriously. i don't know the detail of your relationship with minde so i'll shut up, but just because the two of you can coexist without chopping each other's heads off does not mean you're duals.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    you are perhaps taking socionics too seriously. i don't know the detail of your relationship with minde so i'll shut up, but just because the two of you can coexist without chopping each other's heads off does not mean you're duals.
    Yeah. Perhaps not too seriously, but expecting the relationships to work in a very straightforward way, as if it was that simple. Which is consistent with Fi PoLR, btw -- as in, "relationships should be so easy to understand now, now that I have this system".

    What I think puts off Slacker Mom (I speak under her correction, of course) is when people go, "now this is the only way things are and have to be done, no question, I am sure about this, because if A+B = C then that's all we even have to know". So far you (Ezra) haven't done that.
    Last edited by Expat; 01-04-2008 at 04:15 AM.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  7. #7
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    I think LSI is less likely than SLE, because your Ti seems more irrational. What you dislike is Fe+Si, not Fe+Ni.
    I hope this is is Fe blocked with Si, and not Si alone, which I am quite comfortable with.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    not really.
    Last edited by glam; 04-07-2011 at 12:57 AM. Reason: removing my quote ;)

  9. #9
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Red face

    Haha it's so entertaining to "disgust" niffweed I'd love to meet him and further repulse him and/or get an angry rise out of him with blatant, overt use of

    As for you being SLE or LSI Ezra ... I'd have to say that I do think we are duals. Sometimes the posts you make are embarrassing to read b/c the humor you use can be kind of dorky but that's exact to my brand of humor as well. I don't know to properly explain it, it's just a gut feeling. Plus, I think I even said that the very first thread you made when you got here, that I thought you were my Dual, back when I thought I was IEI-Fe still.

    But that being said, I still think you're an SLE-Ti


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  10. #10
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carla View Post
    Ah ha, Ezra is the new UDP ... ScarlettLux's dual.
    LOL, no, I have to consent that I was entirely wrong about UDP! *bows head in shame*


    Dress pretty, play dirty ღ
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    LOL, no, I have to consent that I was entirely wrong about UDP! *bows head in shame*
    But this time...this is for real.

  12. #12

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    Today:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15970
    December 9th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15313
    November 16th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14622
    November 7th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14346
    October 15th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=13615
    August 29th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=12190
    June 16th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=10547
    June 6th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=10278


    8 type threads including the one you started today, that is of course, if I didn't miss any others.
    If it hasn't happened by this point... it probably won't. Your type will always be up for interpretation in different ways by everyone here. If anything has been proven it's the fact that everybody will never fully agree on your type. Hell, I'd say that if they ever do, you'll probably end up changing their mind when you decide you're not going to be that type anymore.

  13. #13
    force my hand's Avatar
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    *swish*

  14. #14
    aka Slacker Slacker's Avatar
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    We do get along decently at this point, but I still think you have mostly Se and Ti. Functional use > relationships. And relationships online don't mean as much anyway.

    And yeah as Expat said, you haven't said the kind of thing that bugs me THE MOST, which is, "This is the ONLY way things can be, and if you can't see that you're an idiot, and there is no other way to view it, my brain contains all knowledge relevant to the universe, etc."
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

  15. #15
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    Sometimes the posts you make are embarrassing to read b/c the humor you use can be kind of dorky but that's exact to my brand of humor as well.
    Pray tell; show me some quotes of mine that illustrate this.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  16. #16
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Today:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15970
    December 9th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15313
    November 16th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14622
    November 7th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14346
    October 15th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=13615
    August 29th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=12190
    June 16th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=10547
    June 6th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=10278


    8 type threads including the one you started today, that is of course, if I didn't miss any others.
    If it hasn't happened by this point... it probably won't. Your type will always be up for interpretation in different ways by everyone here. If anything has been proven it's the fact that everybody will never fully agree on your type. Hell, I'd say that if they ever do, you'll probably end up changing their mind when you decide you're not going to be that type anymore.
    Yeah but have you not seen any progression. I have. I have learned so much. And I'm still learning.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  17. #17
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Today:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15970
    December 9th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15313
    November 16th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14622
    November 7th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=14346
    October 15th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=13615
    August 29th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=12190
    June 16th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=10547
    June 6th:
    http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=10278


    8 type threads including the one you started today, that is of course, if I didn't miss any others.
    If it hasn't happened by this point... it probably won't. Your type will always be up for interpretation in different ways by everyone here. If anything has been proven it's the fact that everybody will never fully agree on your type. Hell, I'd say that if they ever do, you'll probably end up changing their mind when you decide you're not going to be that type anymore.
    Cracka, if you want to question someone's credibility on this basis, here I am, and I'd like to see you try.

    Ezra hasn't changed his type for months, and I doubt he's about to.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  18. #18
    zenbrat's Avatar
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    Ezra,

    When feeling a bit defeated, which is most likely to elevate your mood and get you moving productively again?

    - Fe: positive strokes, encouragement, push toward joviality
    - Fi: resonance with mood, affirming presence, "I understand"


    When seeking advice about a course of action, which responses are you most likely to value?

    - Ne: rationale for "why" x, y or z might work
    - Ni: rationale for "how" x, y or z might work


    When putting a project or plan together, which sort of input will you most likely value - and, which must be obtained before you feel comfortable acting upon the plan?

    - Te: most efficient process, utility of immediately available resources
    - Ti: most logical order of tasks, step-by-step procedure


    When setting up a shared work or living space, which is the most important concern?

    - Se: adequate personal space, multi-purpose utility, ease of access
    - Si: luxurious physical comfort, entertainment value, aesthetics

  19. #19
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    Ezra,

    When feeling a bit defeated, which is most likely to elevate your mood and get you moving productively again?

    - Fe: positive strokes, encouragement, push toward joviality
    - Fi: resonance with mood, affirming presence, "I understand"
    I am averse to both methods. I'll take care of myself.

    When seeking advice about a course of action, which responses are you most likely to value?

    - Ne: rationale for "why" x, y or z might work
    - Ni: rationale for "how" x, y or z might work
    Aren't they the same thing?

    When putting a project or plan together, which sort of input will you most likely value - and, which must be obtained before you feel comfortable acting upon the plan?

    - Te: most efficient process, utility of immediately available resources
    - Ti: most logical order of tasks, step-by-step procedure
    I'm actually adept with both, so I don't feel the need for input in this area. If you're asking which one I utilise more, I'd say Ti.

    When setting up a shared work or living space, which is the most important concern?

    - Se: adequate personal space, multi-purpose utility, ease of access
    - Si: luxurious physical comfort, entertainment value, aesthetics
    Si for living, Se for work.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Cracka, if you want to question someone's credibility on this basis, here I am, and I'd like to see you try.

    Ezra hasn't changed his type for months, and I doubt he's about to.
    Why would I question anybody else's credibility here, especially Me... someone who knows nothing about socionics? It's ignorant that you'd even bring that question up and you're clearly just wanting to argue about it, if you're going to try to pick an argument with me at least do it when it's something I know or actually care about.
    That post was made to say, if you don't know now... why not, and will you ever settle on a type?
    He may not have changed his type for months but he's still asking about it every couple weeks.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post

    When feeling a bit defeated, which is most likely to elevate your mood and get you moving productively again?

    - Fe: positive strokes, encouragement, push toward joviality
    - Fi: resonance with mood, affirming presence, "I understand"
    I am averse to both methods. I'll take care of myself.
    It's not really a question of whether you consciously seek Fe/Fi. I'm asking you which function is most likely to effect a positive result upon your overall state of being when present: passive resonance & support (Fi) or active influence and encouragement (Fe)?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    When seeking advice about a course of action, which responses are you most likely to value?

    - Ne: rationale for "why" x, y or z might work
    - Ni: rationale for "how" x, y or z might work
    Aren't they the same thing?
    Not really.

    Why = "This result may occur because x, y and/or z are involved." (Ne assesses factors & possible end results)

    How = "This result may occur if x does y, then z happens." (Ni assesses variables & possible paths to end results)


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    When putting a project or plan together, which sort of input will you most likely value - and, which must be obtained before you feel comfortable acting upon the plan?

    - Te: most efficient process, utility of immediately available resources
    - Ti: most logical order of tasks, step-by-step procedure
    I'm actually adept with both, so I don't feel the need for input in this area. If you're asking which one I utilise more, I'd say Ti.
    I'm asking which type of input you would be most receptive to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    When setting up a shared work or living space, which is the most important concern?

    - Se: adequate personal space, multi-purpose utility, ease of access
    - Si: luxurious physical comfort, entertainment value, aesthetics
    Si for living, Se for work.
    Pick one for both. Would you be most (psychologically) aggravated by not having control over your personal space or by a lack of comfort? If you spent the night at a friend's house, which is likely to piss you off more - having them take/use your stuff without asking or having to sleep on the floor for a couple of days?

  22. #22
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Why would I question anybody else's credibility here, especially Me... someone who knows nothing about socionics? It's ignorant that you'd even bring that question up and you're clearly just wanting to argue about it, if you're going to try to pick an argument with me at least do it when it's something I know or actually care about.
    That post was made to say, if you don't know now... why not, and will you ever settle on a type?
    He may not have changed his type for months but he's still asking about it every couple weeks.
    LOL I'm not really sure why you would, which is exactly why I thought you were being dumb But I get it now.

    People like me and Ezra are just bored and we think pretty highly of ourselves so...why not talk about ourselves? Notice I haven't ACTUALLY changed anything about my type for, what, a year? until I actually got new information and started reconsidering stuff about my life seriously. It's just something to talk about; can you blame us? The forum has been pretty fucking dull lately.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  23. #23
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I am averse to both methods. I'll take care of myself.
    I might just be speaking for myself, but I think SLEs don't like people trying to "cheer them up." I like it when I can just go into a group of my friends and immerse myself and try to forget that crazy shit has been happening in my life without people saying "HEI WATS RONG TALK TO MI I KAN HELPZ U FEEL BETTER HERE HAS A KOOKIE!" Sometimes I do need to be "brought out," just to prevent me from taking myself too seriously, but I'll usually seek people's help or advice if I need it.
    But, for a certainty, back then,
    We loved so many, yet hated so much,
    We hurt others and were hurt ourselves...

    Yet even then, we ran like the wind,
    Whilst our laughter echoed,
    Under cerulean skies...

  24. #24
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Why would I question anybody else's credibility here, especially Me... someone who knows nothing about socionics? It's ignorant that you'd even bring that question up and you're clearly just wanting to argue about it, if you're going to try to pick an argument with me at least do it when it's something I know or actually care about.
    That post was made to say, if you don't know now... why not, and will you ever settle on a type?
    He may not have changed his type for months but he's still asking about it every couple weeks.
    Basically, cracka, put it this way. I've managed to narrow my type down extensively. I'm down to Beta ST. And I have a pretty fucking good understanding of the quadras enough now to know what I am and what I am not.

    Like niffweed and there was one more person too, my Enneagram type - 8 - sits much better with me than my socionics type. I can easily see myself as an SLE. I can also see myself very easily as an LSI. So if you can't enlighten me about the differences between these two types and how to see them in myself i.e. how to confirm I am certainly one and not the other, then fuck off.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  25. #25
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    It's not really a question of whether you consciously seek Fe/Fi. I'm asking you which function is most likely to effect a positive result upon your overall state of being when present: passive resonance & support (Fi) or active influence and encouragement (Fe)?
    Fe. But Gilly's right.

    Why = "This result may occur because x, y and/or z are involved." (Ne assesses factors & possible end results)

    How = "This result may occur if x does y, then z happens." (Ni assesses variables & possible paths to end results)
    I'm sorry zenbrat - seriously, I just cannot get my head around that concept all, and so I can't answer.

    I'm asking which type of input you would be most receptive to.
    Ti.

    Pick one for both. Would you be most (psychologically) aggravated by not having control over your personal space or by a lack of comfort? If you spent the night at a friend's house, which is likely to piss you off more - having them take/use your stuff without asking or having to sleep on the floor for a couple of days?
    They wouldn't touch my stuff at their house. They have their own stuff. And there's no point complaining about sleeping on the floor; when you enter into another's house, you are essentially intruding upon their space; hence, you make do with what you've got.

    I suppose though that despite them both being important to me, control is the more important of the two. So Se.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    zenbrat's Avatar
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    is a creative function; something you have fun with. But if aggression and overt control tactics do not create enough bark to ward off a challenger, you default (hunker down) into to take them down.

    You often use dynamics between yourself and others to support your arguments, rather than observations.

    frustrates you.

  27. #27
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    Would you be most (psychologically) aggravated by not having control over your personal space or by a lack of comfort? If you spent the night at a friend's house, which is likely to piss you off more - having them take/use your stuff without asking or having to sleep on the floor for a couple of days?
    Just to confuse matters, I'd much rather sleep on the floor than have my stuff messed with.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    Just to confuse matters, I'd much rather sleep on the floor than have my stuff messed with.
    Nah, it doesn't really confuse matters - it makes sense. is PoLR and is hidden agenda for EII. The hidden agenda has more active influence on choices/actions than the PoLR.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I'm far too messy to be an LSI.

    Just kidding.

    Seriously though, zenbrat, why am I LSI over SLE? Not 'why am I LSI?' but why am I LSI over SLE? What about me that doesn't resonate with SLE?
    Last edited by Ezra; 01-05-2008 at 02:25 PM.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    Nah, it doesn't really confuse matters - it makes sense. is PoLR and is hidden agenda for EII. The hidden agenda has more active influence on choices/actions than the PoLR.
    zenbrat, would you mind explaining to me what socionics functions to which you were tying sleeping on the floor or having personal stuff messed with? That would clear up some of my present confusion, I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    zenbrat, would you mind explaining to me what socionics functions to which you were tying sleeping on the floor or having personal stuff messed with? That would clear up some of my present confusion, I think.
    I'm not zenbrat but not wanting to have your personal stuff messed with would correspond to the resource protecting reinin attribute. Or compliant. Whatever you call it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm far too messy to be an LSI.

    Just kidding.

    Seriously though, zenbrat, why am I LSI over SLE? Not 'why am I LSI?' but why am I LSI over SLE? What about me that doesn't resonate with SLE?
    I understand the confusion. These types are mirrors - it can be hard to tell them apart at a superficial level. Plus, the descriptions suck.

    The ISTj's I know are messy at home but meticulous in appearance. They wear button down shirts and khaki's at all times. The ESTp's are very neat at home but wear jeans, t-shirts and sport clothes until they have to dress up. Even then, the ESTp is 'dress casual' unless they must make a certain impression.

    The ISTj's seem lazy and the ESTp's seem busy. But, the ISTjs are focused and intense when "doing". ESTp's are all over the place and easily distracted. An ESTp will wear me out after a day of running around - but we still get nothing done. An ISTj is hard to get out of the house, unless it is for a social event with the "inner circle" (to which they feel serioos obligation) or a run to the store to get something for a project - but the day is productive.

    My ESTp's are usually early and the ISTj's are usually late - but ESTp's will be late if something else is holding their interest at the moment. From what I gather, the ISTj's leave and arrive when it seems 'logical' (): "The party doesn't really get started till 11...", or, "My boss doesn't show up until 9, so it doesn't make sense for me to rush in by 8...". The ESTp's want to get a feel for the place, check out who is there, see what's going on, find the best vantage point, etc () so they show up early.

    Your video seems ISTj. I initially thought ESTj because your board persona is a bit extroverted, but the video shows your natural demeanor. Very rigid body language, tightly wrapped, enveloping in on itself in a defensive way. There is a sense of speaking through clenched teeth. Speech is staccato - ISTj's sorta growl out a sentence, regroup with a short pause, then growl out the rest of their thought. Their conversation often defaults to everything that fails to pass their 'inspection'. They can seem angry and generally disgusted with a little of everything but it's just the force of their character. The ISTj is rarely as angry as they may appear.

    ISTj's remind me of war-grizzled soldiers - hardened, angry, punitive, survivalist. An ISTj friend of mine and I actually have a kill rating for video games - the beauty of a kill, available methods, quality of carnal graphics, blood splatter, etc can make or break a game for us. They love military games and life itself is played out like a tactical military movement - everything is a test of will, even if the opponent is just themselves.

    As for ESTp's, the artisan persona is clear here. They can be assholes in their humor and a bit cranky at times but they are charmers; Don Juan's. Very smooth, relaxed, sensory. Affable, charming - everyone loves them, even if their energy and force are somewhat overwhelming. is truly a creative function; something used when fails as a first response. Their activities are geared toward pleasure and sensory stimualtion. ESTp's live in the body (and in contact with others by conquering them through ), whereas the ISTj's sort of retreat to their minds (). ESTp's don't want to argue, prove a point, etc.

    ESTp's are very receptive to during conversation. They absorb by listening intently, asking questions, assimilating. They appreciate input.

    ISTj's are a bit irritated by it - is too vague and seems to lack practical purpose. Understanding comes with difficulty. It becomes a question of competence to them: "I feel like I can't understand this, so I don't like it. I feel dumb and it makes me extremely uncomfortable. Stop."

    SLE's prompt for . You can't be too complimentary to an SLE. Over the top sentiment just makes them all warm and fuzzy. Your becomes an addiction. This HA is probably why they make themselves so charming - physically and interpersonally. It attracts . as PoLR seems to explain why people feel like they are all the same to SLE - he doesn't get how, why or who is significant (or how to express it). The hierarchy is fuzzy.

    LSI's prompt for - an LSI and he will feel comforted. Filial "love" is air and water for an LSI. The edge softens in the presence of strong filial bonds. "You are one of my own, and I am pleased to be significant in your hierarchy".

    This was ridiculously long... sorry. But, just for giggles, here's a video by some friends of mine. The 'tazed' is an ESTp. The cameraman/narrator is an ISTj. The 'tazer' is an ESFj. The person who flashes in & out for a sec is an ESTp.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Minde View Post
    zenbrat, would you mind explaining to me what socionics functions to which you were tying sleeping on the floor or having personal stuff messed with? That would clear up some of my present confusion, I think.


    I thought of it like this...

    An SLE will acquire your space (), then rationalize it () based on perceived opportunities () for itself, without really considering the effect this invasion may pose on the relationship ().

    An LSI will assess and rationalize the situation (), then determine it's territorial needs () with consideration for it's "brothers" (), realistically considering this minor inconvenience to just be "the way of things" ().

    Ezra's response to that question fell in line with LSI.
    Last edited by zenbrat; 01-05-2008 at 09:24 PM. Reason: clarification

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by snegledmaca View Post
    I'm not zenbrat but not wanting to have your personal stuff messed with would correspond to the resource protecting reinin attribute. Or compliant. Whatever you call it.
    Reinin is a pile of shit. I'm Democratic. Does that mean I'm not SLE? According to Reinin it does.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Reinin is a pile of shit. I'm Democratic. Does that mean I'm not SLE? According to Reinin it does.
    Well I agree. According to reinin I'm ILE. And IEI doesn't even come close. But that could be because of faulty interpretation of the attributes not because they are invalid.

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Prepare to be confused, zenbrat.

    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post
    The ISTj's I know are messy at home but meticulous in appearance. They wear button down shirts and khaki's at all times. The ESTp's are very neat at home but wear jeans, t-shirts and sport clothes until they have to dress up. Even then, the ESTp is 'dress casual' unless they must make a certain impression.
    My place at uni is tidy as hell. I wear casuals ALL THE TIME, even when I go out. I'm still casual. When I do dress up however, I make a real effort. For example, a formal dinner - I have to look spotless; absolutely perfect. And I fucking love weaing a suit. This place here is a mess at the moment. I'm going back to uni tonight. Clean space for me. I will always take the time to clean up, but other routines come first. I do love tidying though. I love the order it brings.

    The ISTj's seem lazy and the ESTp's seem busy. But, the ISTjs are focused and intense when "doing". ESTp's are all over the place and easily distracted.
    SLE is somewhat me, but in comparison to some people I know, I am very orderly. Some others think I'm mentally scattered. I hate that idea. I'd say I was quite easily distracted too.

    An ESTp will wear me out after a day of running around - but we still get nothing done. An ISTj is hard to get out of the house, unless it is for a social event with the "inner circle" (to which they feel serioos obligation) or a run to the store to get something for a project - but the day is productive.
    Both me at different times. However, 'inner circles' don't carry that much importance to me, because I don't have an inner circle. I have several middle circles

    My ESTp's are usually early and the ISTj's are usually late - but ESTp's will be late if something else is holding their interest at the moment. From what I gather, the ISTj's leave and arrive when it seems 'logical' (): "The party doesn't really get started till 11...", or, "My boss doesn't show up until 9, so it doesn't make sense for me to rush in by 8...". The ESTp's want to get a feel for the place, check out who is there, see what's going on, find the best vantage point, etc () so they show up early.
    For appointments, I am always on time. For parties, I like to go just before everyone's pissed off their face, so I can look at the chaos around me and revel in the fact that these people are my personal clowns.

    Your video seems ISTj. I initially thought ESTj because your board persona is a bit extroverted, but the video shows your natural demeanor. Very rigid body language, tightly wrapped, enveloping in on itself in a defensive way. There is a sense of speaking through clenched teeth. Speech is staccato - ISTj's sorta growl out a sentence, regroup with a short pause, then growl out the rest of their thought. Their conversation often defaults to everything that fails to pass their 'inspection'. They can seem angry and generally disgusted with a little of everything but it's just the force of their character. The ISTj is rarely as angry as they may appear.
    Err, I can't really argue with that. You've got proof - the video. Also, the last sentence I completely agree with.

    ISTj's remind me of war-grizzled soldiers - hardened, angry, punitive, survivalist. An ISTj friend of mine and I actually have a kill rating for video games - the beauty of a kill, available methods, quality of carnal graphics, blood splatter, etc can make or break a game for us. They love military games and life itself is played out like a tactical military movement - everything is a test of will, even if the opponent is just themselves.
    You legends. That is absolutely brilliant. I can identify with this to some extent.

    As for ESTp's, the artisan persona is clear here. They can be assholes in their humor and a bit cranky at times but they are charmers; Don Juan's. Very smooth, relaxed, sensory. Affable, charming - everyone loves them, even if their energy and force are somewhat overwhelming. is truly a creative function; something used when fails as a first response. Their activities are geared toward pleasure and sensory stimualtion. ESTp's live in the body (and in contact with others by conquering them through ), whereas the ISTj's sort of retreat to their minds (). ESTp's don't want to argue, prove a point, etc.
    Sounds like you're getting a bit muddled with Keirsey and Myers-Briggs here, zenbrat. The clubs (NT, NF, ST and SF) are slightly different to KTT, where they are NT, NF, SP and SJ. This is because in KTT, SPs act similar, SJs act similar. However, in socionics, STs act similar. So an LSE is like an SLE. However, in KTT, an ESTJ and an ESTP are very different.

    But the last few sentences I agree with. I'm much more LSI.

    ESTp's are very receptive to during conversation. They absorb by listening intently, asking questions, assimilating. They appreciate input.
    From a socionics point of view, this makes little to no sense.

    It becomes a question of competence to them: "I feel like I can't understand this, so I don't like it. I feel dumb and it makes me extremely uncomfortable. Stop."
    I get this feeling when I'm doing an IQ problem.

    LSI's prompt for - an LSI and he will feel comforted. Filial "love" is air and water for an LSI. The edge softens in the presence of strong filial bonds. "You are one of my own, and I am pleased to be significant in your hierarchy".
    Again, this is socionically contradictive. LSIs have Fi as a third function, meaning they don't value it. However, they like Fe. Look (this actually illustrates me very well):

    Quote Originally Posted by Wikisocion
    Extroverted ethics

    Being stuck in the rigid system with no alternatives, LSIs requires powerful emotional jolts to liven them up. They enjoy extremely dramatic and phantasmagoric emotions and humor from their duals to feel really alive. They enjoy the atmosphere of a loud and fun party. Still, the LSI is more prone to engaging in activities that they are accustomed to, and only in the company of individuals that they are very comfortable with will they show strong external emotion.
    This was ridiculously long... sorry.
    To me it wasn't. It was informative. And it helps you to learn about me.

    That video was funny by the way.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zenbrat View Post


    I thought of it like this...

    An SLE will acquire your space (), then rationalize it () based on perceived opportunities () for itself, without really considering the effect this invasion may pose on the relationship ().

    An LSI will assess and rationalize the situation (), then determine it's territorial needs () with consideration for it's "brothers" (), realistically considering this minor inconvenience to just be "the way of things" ().

    Ezra's response to that question fell in line with LSI.
    So, just so I'm sure I'm clear on this - both the sleeping on the floor and having personal stuff messed with correspond in your mind to ?
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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    FFS, why is this thread being dredged up? I don't understand.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    I'm only discussing this because it's come up the consensus list.

    There are problems with both.

    If I am an SLE, I conflict with Minde, who - quite frankly - I don't conflict with. In fact, I find her character rather appealing. Also, I get on surprisingly well with my best friends (LII and IEE) for an SLE.

    If I am an LSI, it means I conflict with not only my best friend, but also my mother and Slacker Mom, who herself admitted that she could see my as a Ne type, or at least someone who was Ne valuing. Even if I'm not good with Ne, does this really show that it is my PoLR or even my third function?

    I'm attracted to ScarlettLux much more than I am to any of the IEIs on here (maybe I've just got high standards), and I'm sure she is an EIE, and to be honest, I like the use of Fe when it's used well. I'm certainly not repulsed to the extent that niffweed is by her video. I think it's used well by her. I HATE some uses of it, such as in the way Alphas use it, or those people at a party to make you "SMIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILE!!!" who try to use it and fail dismally.
    You are adhering to the intertype relations too stringently and I believe that you don't necessarily have "conflicts" with all your conflictors. Moreover, Minde, Slackermom and Scarlettlux are likeable people in their own ways and it is natural for you to appreciate them. Taking myself as an example, I have a Se-ESTp brother but I get along with him very well. This doesn't make me INFp either, contrary to what most people here think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkkmr View Post
    I think it may have to do with a primary key duplication within the database storing this forum, or some update query erroneously updating the thread date stamp on the thread entity.

    I would take a look at it for Mcnew if he wants, I won't even charge him $100 dollars a hour for it... more like $0.
    Primary key duplication? I thought it just bumped each thread when someone new voted on it... (Although maybe in the latter you mean when someone votes on the main screen it says the last person posted at the time someone else voted.)
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