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Thread: INTp-ILI Subtypes

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    Default INTp-ILI Subtypes

    What have you experienced of the subtypes?

    Jonathan, what is your subtype?


    Description by Meged & Ovcharov:

    Ni-INTp Appearance

    The intuitive subtype seems balanced, calm, and even slow. Possesses well-developed figurative and associative thinking. Reads a lot and is given to contemplation and reflection. Likes to converse at length, narrating something on various subjects or retelling something which he has previously read. In conversation he is usually tactful, polite, somewhat reserved, tries to avoid being overly direct and critical. Frequently he feels suppressed and dissatisfied by something – either by his state of health, or by being in poor spirits, or due to some other cause. He rarely discusses his problems with others and holds himself somewhat at a distance. Internally he is rather timid, contradictory, and vulnerable, although he tries not to show this. His movements are fluid and unhurried. Sometimes his figure is tall and lanky, other times it is proportional, but he always seems calm and filled with a sense of his own value. His gait and movements are smooth, may be somewhat swinging and wavering.

    Character

    Possesses well-developed imagination and creative faculties. Inclined to contemplation and passive life of an observer. Often lacks in determination and confidence in himself. In his soul he is an idealist who envisions a beautiful, harmonious, and prosperous life, but is quite passive in finding the means to achieve it. Internally contradictory, critical and distrusting, though doesn't always show this. Subject to frequent doubts and fluctuations. Through his strong intuition he is able to predict the outcome of any undertaking or behavior of a person in any given situation. Often gives advice to exercise caution to avoid unpleasant surprises and troubles. Appreciates old, time-tested truths. Feels susceptible to the fluctuations of life thus he tries to foresee everything; for example, before a trip he thinks over all the details and brings with him everything that may become necessary. Prone to remembering his failures and mishaps for a long time. Frequently falls into melancholy due to excessive pessimism. Though he is often endowed with a fertile imagination and loves new experiences, in reality he gravitates towards stability, safety and security. When he feels too bogged down by the monotony, he gladly takes on traveling.

    Farsighted and prudent in the acquisition of new things or changing his way of life. He rarely rushes the course of events and may delay and postpone making important decisions. Thinks through everything in advance. Dislikes activities and undertakings that are risky and require improvisations. Careful, cautious and indecisive in new endeavors. Person of habit. Dislikes unpleasant surprises.

    Typically leads a somewhat reversed style of life and has a small circle of friends. Rarely takes the initiative in interaction himself, doesn't want to seem intrusive. Stable in his affections. Feels uncomfortable in new company of people. Polite and easy in communication, but dislikes familiarity and boisterous displays of emotion. Considers excessive emotions just like any other extreme to be objectionable and unneeded and calls on others to be calm and reasonable. Loyal, typically tolerant of people and forgiving of their shortcomings. Shows magnanimity and generosity towards others in difficult situations. Aware of his obligations and does not promise anything if he is not sure that he will be able to deliver it.

    Values conveniences and comfort. Can work at a measured and constant pace to provide for a comfortable and prosperous life. If he is drawn to creative work, can become a tireless researcher. Whether he is engaged in his work or domestic chores, he is thorough, conscientious, and carries out his tasks to completion even if he doesn't make it by the deadlines. Demanding of himself, can force himself to do work that is unpleasant and uninteresting but necessary. Finds it difficult to pressure and persuade anyone into anything - prefers reaching an agreement on mutually beneficial terms. However, sometimes he becomes very stubborn and intractable, especially if he sees that a person acts without taking into account his advice or interests.

    Tries to look after his appearance and health, keep himself neat and clean, and dress tastefully. Rarely allows for bright color combinations and decorations, as well as any other excesses.

    Has difficulty maintaining an inner balance due to heightened sensitivity and vulnerability. Due to his inability to control his moods and to switch his attention to something else, sometimes he is excessively fault-finding and cantankerous and other times too kind and accommodating. His emotions transfer to others. Knowing this, he prefers to spend time in solitude when he is in a poor mood, so as not to regret later something said or done in the heat of the moment. In a good mood, he is a charming and pleasant companion who with his attentiveness and sensitivity predisposes toward trust and willingly shares his advice.

    Description by Victor Gulenko:
    Researcher-theorist who paves the way with fundamental developments. By use of analogies is often able to predict how an ongoing process will unfold. Has a good sense for socio-economic tendencies. Possesses extensive erudition and good memory, frequently gets stuck in details. Is well able to provoke a situation, including a commercial one. Experiences difficulties in communication. Searches for an opponent, criticizes with a dose of biliousness, likes to underline deficiencies. Ascetic and grumbling. Often has an asthenic figure, may be negligent of his appearance and take poor care of his health.



    Te-INTp Description by Meged & Ovcharov

    Appearance

    The logical subtype makes an impression of a self-confident, sober-minded, rational person. Most often he is courteous, demonstrates a critical turn of mind and possesses a sense of humor. He smiles frequently but his smile seems somewhat monotonous and set. He tries to be polite, therefore doesn't always voice all of his thoughts and observations. Likes to subject things to analysis. Sometimes he seems haughty and derisive. Skeptical, ironic, and mistrustful. Trusts more in figures and facts than in hastily drawn conclusions. A good rationalizer; he is able to discern the main points and avoid engaging in tasks and projects that are futile in his opinion. Most often his figure is heavy-set and pycnic. His gait is usually quick, movements are purposeful and resolute. May actively gesticulate while speaking. Appears somewhat gusty and impulsive, but usually holds himself with integrity and calm dignity.

    Character

    Quickly assesses a situation or a new project from the point of view of its feasibility and practicality. Likes realistic goals, while the methods of achieving them he finds himself or through intermediaries. Inclined to make rational actions. Takes note of all the details of the case presented to him, emphasizing main ones and brushing unimportant ones aside. Is able to extract maximum returns while applying minimum of effort. Capable of making accurate economic and political predictions. Encourages people to be active, but also warns against any activities that are useless in his opinion. Notices all the contradictions and imperfections of his surrounding world. Due to a developed sense of skepticism it is difficult for him to properly assess the potential of new ventures and people's abilities. While calling for prudence, he can cool any excessive enthusiasm with subtle irony.

    Possesses organizational skills. Tries to be able in his affairs and knowledgeable over a variety of issues. Appreciative of quality work and high qualifications. Has an interest in laws and regulations, collects necessary and interesting information. It's hard to reconvince him in an argument because he often proves his point of view supplying factual information. Sufficiently stubborn, does not yield to direct pressure.

    May have a wide circle of professional or business acquaintances, but rarely becomes truly close with anyone. Fearing becoming dependent on someone tries to appear self-sufficient and confident in himself. Despite this, he is often in need of moral support. Likes people who with their optimism can instill confidence in success. Critically perceives the shortcomings of others. Sometimes cannot withhold himself from making a critical remark, due to which it is difficult for him to maintain smooth relations with others.

    Internally emotional, but tries to be self-sustained. Dislikes falling to extremes, but if his principles are violated he may flare up. Usually restrained in expression of his feelings, dislikes making compliments, considers that it's more sincere to talk of shortcomings. In this case, with his straightforwardness may not spare another's self-esteem. Poorly tolerates discomfort, both external and internal, and therefore tries to smooth out a bad impression left by something he has said.

    Thrifty, economical and practical. Dislikes excesses, can suffice with less. Skillfully handles objects and finances. Good with handling his documentation. Shows creativity in handling practical matters. Can adapt and extract use from things that to others seem to have outlived their use. Modest in his appearance and in everyday life. Feels awkward claiming for himself any material privileges or rewards. Does not attribute much value to accessories, but feels insecure if his appearance does not match the tastes of his society. Rather passive when resting. Due to weak self-discipline and certain measure of inertia he underestimates the role of a healthy lifestyle, due to which his health may suffer.

    Description by Victor Gulenko:
    Practical, operational, maneuverable. Avoids taking up useless tasks and activities. Tries to extract benefit from everything, does not allow for waste in industry - everything must be reasonably used. Loves gatherings, company, friends, a good table. Has a developed sense of humor. Knows how to get along with those around him. Outwardly elegant and sociable, however, of somewhat loose and relaxed in constitution.
    Last edited by silke; 04-16-2018 at 07:01 AM.

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    He's not alpha, he's not IEI... he's just ILI-Ni. There aren't too many on here, and the ones who are here don't have very pronounced personalities. ILI-Ni is alot different then ILI-Te. ILI-Te tells jokes mostly. Instead of developing their own ideas, they seem to focus primarily on critiquing existing ideas ... many times critiquing translates into playing meaningless word games.. they also come off as less socially abrasive, more "with the grain"; maybe even leader of what is considered the grain. ILI-Ni has a closer relationship with emotions, art, philosophy... is more vague with their explanatory style. Focuses on generating thier own ideas as opposed to "accepting or interpreting" existing ideas. Is almost always misunderstood due to their inability to express what is, internally, a very vague abstract image. Comes off as reaching a number of hastey conclusions, ends up backtracking.. trying to explain "these conclusions were merely hypotheses"
    ...etc. No one can follow ILI-Ni logic. It is better (Java); that is.. it will cause you less anxiety / stress, to learn not to speak of such things (subjective hypotheses).. but rather to keep them inside your head and reap their rewards as they come to fruition in reality, in unfolding events in real time.
    Anyway, this is the same forum full of idiots who argued with me I was ENFj.. where I supposedly didn't know myself well enough to know otherwise- that I was 3 of 4 letters away. ..
    If you need to give your thoughts structure, write them in a journal. ... do not ask idiots for imput. Well, I guess in some ways talking to the idiots can be an advantage, because you become good with words... good with defending / understanding your position from every vantage point: basically good at dealing with idiots.. but other then that, no. it is a waste of time
    Last edited by crazedrat; 05-03-2008 at 12:24 AM.

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    Default DCNH subtypes of INTps in pictures

    Aiss asked me to subtype some female INTps - but unfortunately I don't know any. They are probably as rare as INTj females. So I'll just try to subtype the people Filatova typed...

    Problems:
    1.) I will certainly make some mistakes again because in general it is necessary to see a face from different perspectives.
    2.) It is conceiveable that Filatova made some mistakes, too...

    D-INTp (square):


    C-INTp (rectangular): Ralf Stegner (German politician)


    N-INTp (oval): Christian Wulff (president of Germany)


    H-INTp (circular): Oskar Lafontaine (German politician)

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    I'm borrowing this from Personality Cafe forum Gamma hangout:


    ILI who are strongly Ni subtype (Ni-ILI):

    • Are usually calm, and have dispassionate, dissociated reactions to things even if they otherwise smile and seem sociable around others.
    • Come off as being clearly low energy, and lacking spacial presence. Can also look gloomy, slumped, and wounded depending on how well taken care of they have been recently.
    • Aren't really "nicer" than the Te subtype, but they are less likely to intimidate others by their demeanor.
    • At times they appear to be expecting someone else to "pick up" on comments that may go over a dumb person's head.
    • Their ideas are more original, and more elegantly articulated than the Te subtype.
    • Are more stoic, and self controlled than the Te subtype.
    • Aren't likely to engage other people unless they are interested in obtaining knowledge, or the other person always initiates contact with them because of which they frequently lose contact with people.
    • Stubbornness entails sneakily doing things that sneakily reinforce their lethargy, either getting out of things, avoiding others' demands, or satisfying wants.
    • Really need others to push them to do things.
    • More prone to daydreaming and theorizing. May feel out of touch with the pace of life
    • Are more okay with being told what to do, and others taking full control of situations than the other subtype.
    • Accented Fi hidden agenda. May have a hidden interest in psychology, relationships, uncovering personal traits of people. Shy to speak about this at first, FI/Fe is not their zone of confidence, but will gladly chime in if prompted by the course of the conversation and supported by others. Usually have more interest in typology and personality typing theories than the logical subtype.

    ILI who are strongly Te subtype (Te-ILI):

    • Also lack a true physical presence, but appear significantly more active and varied in what they are doing in the here and now (despite the fact they often complain of being belabored).
    • Are equally serious in demeanor, but are much more direct and candid with anger, frustration, criticism, as well as social niceties (making small talk, the "social smile," showing basic concern for others).
    • More political and apt to meeting people outside of their established friend circles; see value in getting involved in extra-curricular groups and activities and in networking.
    • Generally care more about keeping their style, bodies, and status symbols in line with social norms.
    • Communicate in a blunt, matter of fact way that can be intimidating, or even mean sometimes with language designed to "hurt" someone they hope will prove their strength by putting them in their place.
    • Speak more in terms of direct facts, evidence, and pre-established categories and classifications; Ti is more obviously baked into their articulation of advice and understandings.
    • Will not trust immediate impressions until they have been reasoned, fact checked, and deemed valuable to some ends.
    • Will more frequently reach out to other people to initiate conversation, if the person is "worth it."
    • Don't like being "forced" by others, and instead of finding passive ways to avoid being imposed on or submitting, will simply say "no, I'm not doing that."
    • Really need someone close to hear them out, give indirect help and emotional support when they get frustrated.
    • More likely to push themselves to complete things they don't want to do in order to get qualifications, credentials, material gains, etc. but then feel exhausted or frustrated.


    There is also this--http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=ILI_subtypes

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    Don't leave me lost here forever crazymaisy's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Come off as being clearly low energy, and lacking spacial presence.

    "Come off as being clearly low energy, and lacking spacial presence." I have been so many places, waiting in line for something, and everyone wants to cut in front of me, no one else, just me. It's so annoying. I re-adjust space between me and others and it continues on, as if I have a big sign saying, "cut through line right here, just do it, no need to ask permission either"

    Walllflower syndrome in lines.

    I feel quite invisible a-times. It's not that I want to be. It's mysterious to me, though I believe it's true, it maddens me to really not know why.
    Last edited by crazymaisy; 02-01-2017 at 01:08 AM. Reason: spelling
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    I think in pictures, moving pictures...

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    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
    As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
    Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
    Perpetual change"


    Yes - The Yes Album - from "Perpetual Change" (written by Howe and Squire)

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    Well one of them is witty, and like hey oh shit that was clever brah. And the other is like, the earth is flat and you're just a bunch of sheep, god why do I hate everything.

    I prefer the former.
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pookie View Post
    Well one of them is witty, and like hey oh shit that was clever brah. And the other is like, the earth is flat and you're just a bunch of sheep, god why do I hate everything.

    I prefer the former.
    Fuck you too, pal.

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    See
    Projection is ordinary. Person A projects at person B, hoping tovalidate something about person A by the response of person B. However, person B, not wanting to be an obejct of someone elses ego and guarding against existential terror constructs a personality which protects his ego and maintain a certain sense of a robust and real self that is different and separate from person A. Sadly, this robust and real self, cut off by defenses of character from the rest of the world, is quite vulnerable and fragile given that it is imaginary and propped up through external feed back. Person B is dimly aware of this and defends against it all the more, even desperately projecting his anxieties back onto person A, with the hope of shoring up his ego with salubrious validation. All of this happens without A or B acknowledging it, of course. Because to face up to it consciously is shocking, in that this is all anybody is doing or can do and it seems absurd when you realize how pathetic it is.

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    Well, that escalated quickly.

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    I'll give you some examples, so you can see some of the subtle differences and trends yourself.
    I'm a low-key fan of all of them. It's nice to discover a fellow Ni lead, someone you can relate with.

     






     















    Last edited by Olimpia; 02-09-2017 at 07:57 PM.
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    My above post only included male ILIs.

    I think Tasha McCauley is very likely a female ILI-Te, SO instinct first.

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    I can see why. Well, I'm pretty sure I'm an Ni lead. When I took the cognitive function test a long time ago, I consistently scored highest in a Ni. It really wouldn't make sense for me to be anything but.

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    Don't leave me lost here forever crazymaisy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alomoes View Post
    I can see why. Well, I'm pretty sure I'm an Ni lead. When I took the cognitive function test a long time ago, I consistently scored highest in a Ni. It really wouldn't make sense for me to be anything but.
    I'm not doubting you at all, just wondering about your ennegram, it's 1w9 and you being Ni subtype. ... I'm ILI-Ni 5w4, just wondering at the differences between different ILI's here. Some seem more Te or something else entirely, IMO. Not you though.
    Maisy
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    I think in pictures, moving pictures...

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    "And one peculiar point I see,
    As one of the many ones of me.
    As truth is gathered, I rearrange,
    Inside out, outside in, inside out, outside in,
    Perpetual change"


    Yes - The Yes Album - from "Perpetual Change" (written by Howe and Squire)

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    Yeah. It would be interesting to find a definite answer.
    If I stop responding or posting, I've probably taken a break from posting stuff. This really taxes me for whatever reason. Said break could last anywhere from a month to a year. I will likely be back, as socionics is one of my interests. If I'm not on here, you can contact me on steam.

    I got a new computer, so I'll not type on mobile as much any more.

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