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    Default Too Clever By Half



    "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth." ~ Arthur Conan Doyle

    Clinton and Madonna are typed correctly, why is this the case?

    It is indeed relevant for the general INTJ or INTP topic, why is this the case?


    According to Yuri Viktorovich SELYUTIN your fourth function is potentially in many ways your strongest function - it is - why is this the case?

    When in love, introvert yearns for dominance, extrovert for submission. This is not instantly obvious, yet why is this the case?

    Socionics intertype relations are generally correct, yet my dual is ENTP, and not just any ENTPs, why is this the case?
    This one can be a tough nut, but I have dropped a few hints.


    How is this article relevant for our understanding of socionics?

    The illusion of free will
    Boston Globe article about a scientist who says your brain sends signals to perform actions before you consciously decide to do them.
    What Libet did was to measure electrical changes in people's brains as they flicked their wrists. And what he found was that a subject's ''readiness potential'' - the brain signal that precedes voluntary actions - showed up about one-third of a second before the subject felt the conscious urge to act. The result was so surprising that it still had the power to elicit an exclamation point from him in a 1999 paper: ''The initiation of the freely voluntary act appears to begin in the brain unconsciously, well before the person consciously knows he wants to act!''
    Then the experimenters would use magnetic stimulation in certain parts of the brain just at the moment when the subject was prompted to make the choice. They found that the magnets, which influence electrical activity in the brain, had an enormous effect: On average, subjects whose brains were stimulated on their right-hand side started choosing their left hands 80 percent of the time. And, in the spookiest aspect of the experiment, the subjects still felt as if they were choosing freely.

    http://www.boingboing.net/2002/10/18...n_of_free.html



    Why I am So Wise?
    The happiness of my existence, its unique character perhaps, lies in its fatefulness: expressing it in the form of a riddle.
    Why I am So Clever?
    Why do I know more than other people? Why, in general, am I so clever? I have never pondered over questions that are not really questions.


    Everything may be subject to revision - even my cleverness.

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    God, I hate INFjs. :wink:

    Why I am So Wise?
    The happiness of my existence, its unique character perhaps, lies in its fatefulness: expressing it in the form of a riddle.
    Why I am So Clever?
    Why do I know more than other people? Why, in general, am I so clever? I have never pondered over questions that are not really questions.
    So, so much like my INFj friend...

    Your, well, Benefactor INTp friend,

    Cone
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

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    According to Yuri Viktorovich SELYUTIN your fourth function is potentially in many ways your strongest function - it is - why is this the case?
    I really want to here more on this. Sounds very plausible, and I'm getting quite excited about it.

    Hey look I got in on the craze too!
    Ha ha, yes!

    P.S. Why are INFJs so readily accepting of data without foundation?
    My question exactly.

    And also: why do INFjs think they know more than everyone else?

    Your overly-critical and commenting Quasi-Identical/Benefactor INTp friend,

    You know who.
    Binary or dichotomous systems, although regulated by a principle, are among the most artificial arrangements that have ever been invented. -- William Swainson, A Treatise on the Geography and Classification of Animals (1835)

  4. #4
    Creepy-Jetto

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    It's Curious soul, the man (or woman) of many personalities:
    "infj nemesis?"
    "And finally the most difficult question of them all: why are INTJs and INTPs so slow on the uptake?"
    And blah blah blah...
    What an obnoxious post. You have issues that you ought to deal with in a more mature manner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetto
    It's Curious soul, the man (or woman) of many personalities:
    I am a man. I guess I should change my nick since it causes misundertanding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jetto
    "infj nemesis?"
    "And finally the most difficult question of them all: why are INTJs and INTPs so slow on the uptake?"
    And blah blah blah...
    What an obnoxious post. You have issues that you ought to deal with in a more mature manner.
    I am sincerely sorry. I did not mean to insult anyone. I removed the comments that caused most offence. It seems that when writing in a foreign language, even when you know it very well, the words do not quite have the same instinctive emotional associations and it is easy to go over the top. My attempt at humor backfired and I shall try to turn down my sarcasm from now on, well I try.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-The-Lion
    What were the were the parameters of the experiment? Were they told to do what they want but had big devices attached to their wrists? How did they know when the person "decided"? How do we know this is stimuli-response behavior as opposed to unconscious descision-making? Did they have a control group? What was it? Were the reactions to behvaior that is recognized as uncontrolled (ie heart beat) the same as to what is currently considered controlled behavior? How do they know what was going on in the brain was connected to descision making? How did they know what was going on the brain was connected to the hand movement? Don't get me wrong I'm no fan of free will (at least in Sarte's sense) but I need more data.

    Your super-annoying skeptically questioning INTJ freind,

    Hey look I got in on the craze too!

    P.S. Why are INFJs so readily accepting of data without foundation?
    Why did Delta abolish special authority above the people? In science people usually presume that others are conducting experiments according to the established standards. Cheating rarely pays off in the long run. There have been many other studies largely to the same effect though. I hope I am not the only one who can google? Do we have free will or not? Answers to these chicken and egg questions are rarely one or the other but rather something in between. Why does consciousness exist? Do not conflate the proximate with the ultimate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pedro-The-Lion
    P.S. Why are INFJs so readily accepting of data without foundation?
    Well, of course because Te is our suggestive function. :wink: The emerging synthesis on personality types, compatibility etc. will require a lot of data from everything under the sun, you see I do not believe in astrology. You can sort out the wheat from the chaff later - checking and rechecking seems quite pointless while socionics remains an obscure pseudoscience.



    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    According to Yuri Viktorovich SELYUTIN your fourth function is potentially in many ways your strongest function - it is - why is this the case?
    I really want to here more on this. Sounds very plausible, and I'm getting quite excited about it.
    He may not have published the article yet. Thus only in my opinion:
    1. The Program Function: active observation, "lifestyle". Since the first function is the most conscious function it can be too tightly tied up in observing and since it is the Principle of Existence, according to Kalinauskas, it also causes too much conservatism. INTJs know what they know and what they don't. INTPs have their beliefs. INFJs, well I shall write more later - it should not be too hard to guess. People also think little of criticizing others from the standpoint of their first function. If a great communicator does not seem to be doing this - well there is usually a reason.

    2. The Creative Function: it requires efforts, for some time "sits in an ambush" and manifests in many small activities. Second function is also the Weapon of the TIM I am very handy at coming up with explanations. They may sound impressive, maybe they are correct, maybe not, but I sure can hit you hard with my Ne.

    3. The Role Function: often a person tries to look this way (in order to not reveal his/her weak traits before the others), but is not that kind; in an emergency situation this function tends to excesses.
    I do like to sound logical - but a function of neurosis it remains.

    4. The Vulnerable Function: it accumulates information, but a person is always not sure in its quality; people usually follow these principles rather in words than really, because decisive actions of the 2nd function "suppress" the shy voice of the 4th function.
    The shyness is not necessary for the bad. Often less is more, just note the reaction to the tone of my first post.
    This is also the function of coordination. This is where you put it all together. Observe people: ISFPs sometimes repeat things almost as if talking to themselves. ENFPs go through large amount of data and then attempt at some kind of summary: there is a reason they are drawn to journalism, etc.

    If you have ethics here, it can give a certain charismatic quality to your communication that other types do not have. Clinton could burst into tears when cameras turned to him, I wrote on Hitler earlier, both were in their own way great orators, but can you spot the differences?
    ENFJs on the other hand; well Tony Blair - need I say more?
    Both ESTP and ESFP guys can often approach ladies with exceptional confidence, why are ESTPs on average more succesful?

    Many INTJs really give at least every appearence of having, for obscure reasons, developed a very strong will. http://keirsey.com/personality/ntij.html.
    Read the Erotica lyrics from the beginning, Madonna even follows a very logical procession. http://www.letrascanciones.org/madon...ca/erotica.php
    With INFJs, well there are differences and there are similarities. Let us leave it at that.

    I could go on - but I will not. Be as I am 'An observer of human nature, sir', said Mr Pickwick'

    Developing the fourth function does takes quite a lot of training. It follows a kind of Maslowian hierarchy, first develop the base etc, but when you are operating on the fourth function with full confidence it can feel like having the other three functions ready to be launched at moment's notice like three roaring lions locked behind bars. The "Hidden agenda" is involved here too, how? Try to think for yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cone
    And also: why do INFjs think they know more than everyone else?
    Because I do. It is a fact of life. Learn to live with it
    I am always right - except when I am wrong.
    It is known to happen.


    Finally, how is this post relevant for our understanding of socionics? Just for change take it at face value. I was not going to turn this into EvPsych Forum but since Larry Summers was already mentioned...

    Slow Dimorphism
    Posted by greg at 05:13 PM
    Even when favored by natural selection, sexual dimorphism evolves far more slowly than monomorphic traits: alleles tend to have the same effect in in both sexes. . I just talked to Alan Roger about a paper of his (with Arindam Mukherjee) that did a quantitative analysis of just how much more slowly: for stature: about 65 times more slowly . There is reason to think that is a general result, that for most traits, dimorphism evolves tens of times more slowly than monomorphic traits, given equal force of selection.

    Every now and then we hear someone say that given the recent common origin of the human race, there just hasn't been time for geographically isolated populations to evolve significant differences. That's wrong: 150,000 years is a reasonable consensus value for most recent human common ancestry, and that's enough time for a lot of change in the population mean of just about any trait, given plausible values of the force of selection. However, it is not a long time in term of selecting for changes in sexual dimorphism: more like 2300 years. The species is young enough that you expect sex differences to be roughly constant, even when means vary widely. Pygmy men are shorter than European women, but the difference between Pygmy men and women is about the same as the difference between European men and women. I would guess that this is true in general: true for psychometric traits as well.

    I bet Larry Summers would like to talk about this.

    http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/003689.html

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    Default uh...

    Boy, CuriousSoul, you sure do spit a lot of data out .
    It's very logical.

    Socionics intertype relations are generally correct, yet my dual is ENTP, and not just any ENTPs, why is this the case?
    If you have INFJ personality type, then your dual has ESTJ. ENTP is a Supervisee of INFJ. Got it?

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    you can call some subtype of your supervisor your "ideal mate," but try to avoid using "dual." duality just defines symmetrical psychological complement, not how good your sadomasochistic whoopee will be.

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    OK, where is the theory behind the subtypes(don't answer, the answer is there is apparently two different conflicting ones, both hidden in the Socionics Gazetta we haven't translated).

    Please people, types aren't stereotypes. Socionics used correctly will teach you that people are more individualized than you would imagine. It's not about subclassifying people based on observations, but if you can come up with a valid working theory of subtypes (a mathmatical one, compatible with current theory of socionics), I'll reconsider. But again and again, Duals have the innate quality to be your 'soulmate', but personality differences(actual personalities, yes, people with the same types always have different actual personalities), age differences, preconceptions, and real world happenings can always screw things up. What I'm saying, is that your type is your type, but don't confuse actual personality with trying to subtype types without theory. People have personalities, with types at their core. People are raised differently, have different actions happening in their lives, etc.

    And sadomasochism is definately deep within the collective unconscious, and can be pulled up by any type. Watch the nature channel for a good few days. Duh. Not really a Socionics or type thing.

    INTJ - Jimmy

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    You should have some sort of phallic name...lol

    -Jimmy

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    What do you propose?
    I do think by now, that I need a new name. Just nothing too "manly" though, I do not want to sound like I like I am from the Village People either, I am neither personally into everything I write about. :wink: I think the Socionics intertype relations theories may in some cases be wrong but I do not have much evidence yet.

    Pedro, I did see the but went on nevertheless... Perhaps I am too trustful but what else is there really to do? Most of the theories in socionics have even less evidence, as far as I know of course.

    Still on the subtypes. I know the theories do not make that much sense at this stage, but fact of the matter is that there are just so many kind of people within every type. I do not know, if we could somehow learn to see the functions directly it would make everything so much easier. Have you checked Filatova's subtype theory at www.ru.laser.ru It works with http://webtranslation.paralink.com/urlmode.asp In my opinion it seems quite promising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    What do you propose?
    I do think by now, that I need a new name. Just nothing too "manly" though, I do not want to sound like I like I am from the Village People

    Still on the subtypes. I know the theories do not make that much sense at this stage, but fact of the matter is that there are just so many kind of people within every type. I do not know, if we could somehow learn to see the functions directly it would make everything so much easier. Have you checked Filatova's subtype theory at www.ru.laser.ru It works with http://webtranslation.paralink.com/urlmode.asp In my opinion it seems quite promising.
    I'm very curious about the subtype thing to...I guess it's an INFJ thing. LOL

    Lately I've been like at the Enneagram types and now it makes sense why people of the same type can be so different. For instance, INTJ that is an enneagram 5 is very different from an INTJ that is 3. And if you combined each type with each Enneagram type, you would get nine subtypes for each type.

    I know an INFJ psychologists whose practive has been helped by implementing the enneagram types, along with personality types. She was able to better evaluate her patients when utilized both typing systems. And her clients were more satisfied with their evaluations too.
    ________
    Easy Vape Review
    Last edited by alexia; 02-26-2011 at 08:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CuriousSoul
    What do you propose?
    I do think by now, that I need a new name. Just nothing too "manly" though, I do not want to sound like I like I am from the Village People either, I am neither personally into everything I write about. :wink: I think the Socionics intertype relations theories may in some cases be wrong but I do not have much evidence yet.

    Pedro, I did see the but went on nevertheless... Perhaps I am too trustful but what else is there really to do? Most of the theories in socionics have even less evidence, as far as I know of course.

    Still on the subtypes. I know the theories do not make that much sense at this stage, but fact of the matter is that there are just so many kind of people within every type. I do not know, if we could somehow learn to see the functions directly it would make everything so much easier. Have you checked Filatova's subtype theory at www.ru.laser.ru It works with http://webtranslation.paralink.com/urlmode.asp In my opinion it seems quite promising.
    You have to account for people having personalities, you can't type someone's character traits all down to how they digest information, the information they have been digesting is extremely important as well. I couldn't get to www.ru.laser.ru, but I did get to ru.laser.ru, but I couldn't find what you were talking about.

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    Default Subtypes a'la Filatova

    Sorry, maybe I got the link wrong. Anyway go to the Library and then there is a list of authors, Filatova is way down. This was the machine translation, feel free to delete it later. As I said everybody seems to have their own theory, and it seems kind of complicated in poor translation:

    Types, intertipnye attitudes and podtipnost
    Now we shall discuss a question about which speech has already gone in the beginning of the book, about subtypes. Podtipnost - the major factor in diagnostics psihotipa. Those readers who have experience in diagnostics psihotipov, certainly know, how difficultly it happens to identify them. Quite often representatives of the same type are shown so on miscellaneous, that in general it is difficult to find something the general in their behaviour.

    Podtipnost can be caused not only amplification of one of functions of the conducting block, but to have and other reasons. We shall discuss them. We shall recollect an episode in history of attitudes of the grandmother (LSI - Maxim) and grand daughters (EII Dostoevsky) when the grand daughter for many years is silent and in any way does not show the negative emotions, there is no yet an obvious failure: as though there was an overflow of certain emotional "tank", and emotions have unexpectedly rushed outside (BE-> CHE). Such impression that there was a breakdown of certain invisible "valve" (if such only mechanical analogy here would be pertinent).

    Let's result an example from conversation with LSE - Stirlitz: " I with ease and pleasure begin - to prick fire wood for any physical work, to beat a shelf... If I should solve any logic problem, it is necessary to adjust specially myself on theoretical lad, well and then already such work goes easily enough " (CHL-> BL).

    And here still an example - the remark of the woman (SLE - Zhukov) about the husband (SLI - Gaben): It only seems, what it is always quiet, and whether you can present it with pobelevshim the person shouting at me with foam at a mouth? During such moments sometimes it seems to me, that it is capable to strike me... " Certainly attitudes of full contrast are very burdensome, and, it is easy for itself to present, that the constant psychological discomfort tested by both spouses, sometime can vylitsja and in aggressive behaviour of the husband - SLI to repulse the wife - SLE (BS-> CHS). Here, as well as in history of the grandmother and the grand daughter, the individual is obviously broken, passing in a unusual condition for itself other "vertnosti", that is obviously given to it with the big work and subsequently demands a long relaxation.

    Other supervision: amplification of one of functions in structure of this or that psihotipa results as well in amplification of similar function another "vertnosti". The readers having some sotsionichesky experience, probably will agree that the representative of a logic subtype of Balzac (usilena CHL) frequently appears also quite good theorist (BL), the person concerning to ethical subtype Drajzera (usilena BE), periodically emotionally blows up (CHE), and the one who concerns to Maxim's logic subtype (usilena BL) - happens is very strong in practical activities (CHL), etc.

    These and many other similar supervision allow to assume, that both similar functions in mentality of the person are interconnected - if usilena that is in the basic ring as usilena and that has other "vertnost" and belongs to a back, "shadow" ring. Besides transition from function of the basic ring to similar "vertnosti" "shadow" is complicated and demands the certain expenses of energy for the realization.

    Proceeding from stated above, we have the right to assume, that each pair similar functions borrows the same liaison channel, and thus there is an allocated direction of distribution of energy in the channel which defines realization the basic "vertnosti": raspostranenie energy outside carries out ekstravertnyj a variant, and a direction vovnutr defines a variant intravertnyj. These reasons have served for the author as a starting point at creation of model of the combined rings as in such model four liaison channels are realized, and each channel is borrowed with both similar functions, both ekstravertnoj, and introvertnoj, that corresponds to real supervision.

    And now we will address directly to subtypes about which speech has already gone. We shall remind, that in structure of mentality of some persons can be usileny functions of the conducting block, and besides amplification of one of leaders frequently conducts as well to amplification of the weak function located in the same ring under amplified function, - in result there can be amplified a vertical block, right or left, depending on what of conducting functions usilena.

    Here I would like to share with the reader interesting, in my opinion supervision: in the event that one of vertical channels is amplified, and "vertnost" inside of channels is easily switched on opposite (the power threshold which for this purpose is necessary for overcoming, it is not too high) as the vertical subtype of a back "shadow" ring is easily carried out. I shall explain this supervision by examples.

    Let's consider psihotip OR - Balzac. The scheme of its mental structure prvedena in figure.

    -> BI/CHI ---------- CHL/BL
    =
    = |
    = |
    =
    = CHE/BE -- ------- -BS/CHS
    =


    Earlier we spoke about the following possible subtypes:

    Subtype with amplified first function BI - an intuitive subtype;
    Subtype with amplified second function CHL - a logic subtype;
    Subtype IEI - Yesenin (left block BI CHE is amplified);
    Subtype LSE - Stirlitz (right block CHL BS is amplified).
    Except for listed above I could meet two more subtypes:

    Subtype EII - Dostoevsky (left "shadow" block BE CHI is amplified);
    Subtype SLE - Zhukov (right "shadow" block CHS BL is amplified).
    Let's consider one more example of possible subtypes psihotipa EIE - Hamlet. There is here too enough confidently mozhnovydelit 4 subtypes:

    ->
    CHE/BE -------- = CHL/BL
    =

    BI/CHI -------- = BS/CHS
    =
    = |
    =

    -


    Subtype with amplified first function CHE-eticheskijpodtip;
    Subtype with amplified second function BI-intuitivnyjpodtip;
    Subtype ESE-Gjugo (left block CHE BS is amplified);
    Subtype OR - Balzac (right block BI CHL is amplified).
    And in this case to the author also there were following subtypes:

    Subtype SEE - Napoleon (left "shadow" block CHS BE is amplified);
    Subtype LII - Robespera (right "shadow" block BL CHI is amplified).
    It is possible to name some more examples which, in opinion of the author, confirm the fact of an opportunity of occurrence of "shadow" subtypes: Don Kihot with Hamlet subtype, Napoleon with subtype Geksli, Jack with Dostoevsky's subtype, etc. It is Interesting, that conducting function of a subtype in all listed cases has the same "vertnost", as conducting function of the basic amplified block, namely: if the right mainframe of structure EIE - Hamlet has conducting function introvertnuju intuition (BI CHL) also its shadow subtype LII - Robesper also is defined conducting introvertnoj by logic BL CHI, etc. Are theoretically possible as well variants with return order of functions, we shall tell a "shadow" variant at Hamlet structure can appear not BL CHI - Robesper, and CHI BL - Don Kihot. As such variants to the author met much less often, than perechislenye is higher, it is possible that they are really less probable (probably, that simply it is less than such people among the familiar author). Except for that there could be also mistakes in definition as types, and their subtypes, - while we have no enough reliable ways of definition psihotipov, it is impossible to exclude also an opportunity of erroneous diagnostics psihotipov, therefore the question remains open for the future researches.

    Till now has gone about subtypes with amplified vertical blocks, however there are people amplified horizontal blocks, the truth, such, from the point of view of the author, much less. It is necessary to notice, that be more often usileny the bottom horizontal blocks.

    Theoretically there are no obstacles for amplification both top, and the bottom blocks, however amplification of the top block means, that the person is practically deprived opportunities to use by functions of other poles, rather than the basic. However each of us should collide with such vital situations and to solve such problems which demand an output for limits of the basic functions and inclusion of functions weak, otherwise the behaviour appears inadequate to a situation.

    In sotsionicheskoj to practice of the author there were cases when tested all alternative questions have answered with the maximal overweight in one party (9:1 and 10:0) twice, that meant obvious amplification vedushcheg the horizontal block. Appeared, that in both cases examinees - woman IEI and the young man OR - mentally were not quite healthy and periodically received medical treatment.

    Amplification of the bottom horizontal blocks in structure psihotipa is much more favorable for the person, than amplification of the top blocks. Really, wider choice of strategy on all to four dihotomijam gives the person of much more variants of action, an opportunity it is rather easy to find a way out of a complex situation and, accordingly, more opportunities uiti from stresses.

    Continuing a theme stressoustojchivosti, it is possible to assume, that if at the concrete person force of one functions in a high degree prevails of others its adaptable opportunities appear incomparably below, than at the one who is capable to proceed easily in the area unusual for its basic condition.

    It is possible to consider, that representatives psihotipov with amplified right blocks of mental structure are obviously better adapted to stresses, than those at whom the left block is amplified. At the first the behaviour varies both on "vertnosti" much more widely, and by criterion ratsio-irrationalities whereas the second are focused mainly in the strong poles, and the probability of transition in other sphere for them is smallest.

    Let's notice, that unilateral napravlenost mentalities of the person can appear a source of its oustanding abilities in the area corresponding to amplified functions.

    It is to tell the truth, reasonable to assume, that adaptable opportunities are connected not only to stably amplified functions, but also and with ease of transition from one pole dihotomii in another. Actually this property enables an individual to respond to changes of a situation, unexpected turns of events quickly.

    How the subtype in this or that psihotipe is shown? Differently. It happens, that the person uses a subtype as image, "carries" it as the most convenient " psychological clothes ", thus in critical situations the clothes easily "fly", and the basic type is obviously shown. It happens and on the contrary - the subtype unexpectedly arises during the intense moments of a life, helping them to go through. It was necessary to the author to observe and variants when the person passes from one condition in another in pedelah amplified functions depending on the person of the interlocutor. For example, Stirlitz's touch subtype can behave warmly and sincerely, is similar SEI - Djuma, and during other, short periods of time, can becomes constrained, closed, persistent, very much reminding on character SLI - Gabena.

    Whether follows from the fact of existence podtipnosti existence and intermediate variants between types? Whether it is possible to expect, what the type appears "greased", and, basically, observing very big number of people, we shall meet all spectrum of transitions from one types to another?

    No, on numerous supervision, it is possible to assert, that two subtypes connected to amplification by one conducting functions are steady, during basic time of ability to live character of the person fully complies with its main subtype. Other subtypes (left - right blocks, "shadow" blocks, and also blocks horizontal) come into effect in rather short time intervals so, that the probability of their display in operation an individual appears much less, than probability of a presence in the basic condition (isljucheniem the situation when the subtype for someone serves as "clothes" is, but this condition is very superficial, is only a mask hiding an essence of mentality of an individual).

    Let's note also, that transition in other podtipnost in all cases for any person occurs not gradually, and jump. This supervision fully complies with about what writes K.G.Jung in " Analytical psychology ": " When you think, leave your feelings and sensual estimations. Feelings are most destructive for your ideas. These two functions deny each other. The same occurs to sensation and intuition (...). Possessing intuition, you usually do not press in details, trying to perceive a situation as a whole and then suddenly something appears from this whole. If your basic function - sensation, you will be deprived intuitions only because it is impossible to do " two affairs at once ". It is difficult enough, as pritsip one function excludes action another ".

    Thus spasmodic transition of the person from one subtype in another is connected to exclusive action of each function separately from another. That is enough frequently observable fact, that some individuals possess properties both one, and other alternative function, at all does not contradict told above. The matter is that such duality means only that the person easily passes from one pole in another (ethics - logic, sensorika - the intuition), can even be almost identical time all over again in one, and then in the other condition, but these conditions are always discrete and are not mixed one with another.

    In general, the question about podtipnosti is combined enough and for the present poorly worked. It speaks basically that with the account podtipnosti the number of various typical characteristics equal any more 16, and comes nearer to 150. To learn it is enough to identify confidently each of subtypes, very big statistics is necessary: even if to have the data on behaviour of all several the person of the same subtype at which would repeat both tipnye, and podtipnye properties of character the full description of all picture would need long enough supervision over quantity of various types and subtypes. Anyhow, the question about podtipnosti demands still very extensive and serious researches, and it is possible to hope, that in the future this area of researches will present us many interesting opening.

    Certainly, podtipnost individuals are necessary for taking into account in the event that we want to understand attitudes between people of the different types, possessing everyone the subtype. Obviously, here it is necessary to bring corrective amendments which can displace strongly enough the prospective forecast of attitudes made without taking into account podtipnosti. The general principle is those: those better communicate at whom fuller total balance of functions. For example, we shall consider a dual pair Don Kihot - Djuma.

    Don Kihot

    ->
    CHI/BI- ------------ BL/CHL = |
    =


    =
    = BE/CHE ----------- CHS/BS = |


    Djuma

    ->
    BS/CHS ----------- CHE/BE =
    = |
    = |
    =
    = CHL/BL ----------- BI/CHI
    -

    =

    If at each of them the vertical block appear better are compensated those subtypes, at which amplified blocks same - either right, or left is amplified. Really, at dualov functions are located in such a manner that both in right, and in the left blocks there is a full set of all of 8 functions. If at one of partners the left block, and at another - right appears, that both at one is amplified, and at another usileny 4 identical functions while 4 others are weakened, and addition appears not full.

    Clearly, that in each concrete case of attitudes it is necessary to pay specially attention to a question podtipnosti if this podtipnost is determined enough confidently. It concerns to everything, without exception intertipnym to attitudes, including to the most adverse - reviznym and disputed. However it is necessary to notice, that any attitudes can appear as strongly softened - if subtypes of partners are those, that in their schemes there are identical and dual blocks, and sharpened - if in subtypes of partners are present disputed or reviznye blocks.

    For example, Dostoevsky easily communicates with Balzac having its subtype, Dostoevsky's attitudes with Balzac possessing a subtype of Stirlitz are very favorable, but it is very difficult for Dostoevsky to deal with Balzac having a subtype of Zhukov. We shall remind, that Balzac - Customer Dostoevsky, with Stirlitz Dostoevsky connect dual attitudes, and with Zhukov - disputed.

    Finishing the chapter about subtypes, we shall note one curious fact: among representatives of the same type groups of people externally very similar against each other are observed, - it happens that they look the present doubles. Such groups it is possible to allocate a little. For example in the card file of photos of representatives collected by the author OR - Balzacs it is evidently enough looked through 12-15 groups having obvious similarity inside of one group. At the same time representatives of different groups noticeably differ externally from each other.

    Taking into account, that the exponent of subtypes which we have defined is those, proceeding from structure sotsionicheskoj models, it is possible to assume, that external distinctions are connected with podtipnostju though in this question the author had to collide some contradictions about what while to speak prematurely all for the same reasons: for some confident conclusions the big statistics is necessary.

    Taking into account that circumstance, that sotsionicheskie subtypes have obviously expressed external similarity, it is possible to assert with confidence, that in jungovskoj typology on which it is based sotsionika, distinctions in mental structure of people so cardinal are revealed, that they affect even a physical structure of a body of the person and, probably, have the genetic nature.

  14. #14

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    I disagree with this, this is the same MBTI and 'preferred' or 'amplified' Socionics crap. There is no theory behind this, only, 'the base function is stronger' or 'the secondary function is stronger than it should be'. When you put back into the socionics theory, like always, it shows that this is just a preference, and could resemble a permanent 'subtype' if a person for whatever reason chose or fate chose a certain function to favor(ie in an extraverted society an introvert tends to use his extraversion more than is healthy). Thus it cannot be built into psyche or genetics. Personally, I favored back and forth my first and secondard functions depending on the information and surroundings I was getting. So I have switched these genetic 'subtypes' about 5 times so far. Bullshit. This is still the same arguement I've been making, preference = personality and subtypes = bunk.

  15. #15

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    I think the same. There is no genetical prefference in my oppinnion.

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