32 types instead of 16

[Expat]

Really? Where is a good source for that, and what's Dmitri's role? I just remember that his site criticizes Gulenko's recent work somewhat, and that he seemed to be to be skeptical about Reinin dichotomies.

BTW, I posted some thoughts about the origins of +/- at http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin...ad.php?t=15814

Dmitri has withdrawn from active involvement in socionics since he became a court translator. In his site he was clearly critical - even dismissive - of Reinin dichotomies, including an interview with Grigori Reinin himself.

Regarding the +/- concept, he actually posted here on the forum about how he thought that the concept added nothing of importance. Which according to Rick is the view of "mainstream" socionics in Russia/Ukraine.

Now, obviously, "Russians" is far, far more than just Lytov or even Gulenko.

[tcaudilllg]

Can you fill us in what the new postulates are so that we can understand what you just said?

Here's a start:

"Se like SLEs do because they draw their power from agreement"

What's the underlying postulate here? What function are you referring to when you talk of agreement, and why does it have to do with agreement?

Well, this is just the relationship between the 8th function and the 1st. Analysis of dialogue reveals that a person always sees the acceptor following a producer as emerging directly from the producer itself: in the activity of the producer, signs of the succeeding acceptor can be seen. For example, say that you, as an ENTj, offer a plan (+Ni) for an improved business relationship between yourself and another person. (-Te) Well, people are going to have a lot of different opinions (Fe) about your little venture, arent they? They might not look too favorably on it (and even if they do, your -Fe will insist otherwise) So what is your strategy for putting a better face on your venture? Better public relations, of course. (+Si) Better relations with those who are skeptical of you will raise their esteem for you to an acceptable level; you aren't wanting them to glorify you, just to trust you.

The point is that you automatically expect to see the following acceptor in the context of a producer's activity. This applies for all four producer-acceptor pairs.

"I draw mine from feeling and emotion."

Are you speaking for LIIs here? Or for EIE-exerting types? Or neither?

LIIs. We perceive people as responding negatively -- even hostily -- to the possibilities we float by them. How do we hope to persuade them to act more civil? By attempting to appeal to their better side. Specifically, we hope to raise their virtues above their vices. Seeing the world in terms of their virtues, they will be capable of appraising our ideas fairly and responsibly.

"But SLE power is drawn from the human spirit of cooperation -- 8th function +Te -- and that power will never, ever fail."

What does +Te have to do with this?

+Te is unity. A +Te deal with someone isn't just a momentary business arrangement: it's a contract, a lasting relationship with someone. You see LSEs always trying to vie for these: their first instinct is to bond with people. Remember what UDP once told me? "We're all connected."

"-Se sees power evident in cohesion, but it is never what it could be. To make it strong, they must offer a structure on which to build it: as the structure improves, the power rises to an acceptable level."

Translate?

In the context of what I said above, this should be understandable. SLE's see others' will as lacking; (-Se) what it needs, they think, is a little more organization. (+Ti; refer to Augusta's discussion of the elements, where she says Se is "a sense of people's organization for exerting willpower.") So they offer a means of organizing will into something suitable for their purposes.