perfection

[liveandletlive]

which elements and types are most associated with perfectionism?

[liveandletlive]

ethical base function + sensing POLR function

at least in my experiences.

hmmm... well i know that they're HAs are all "to be perfect" but i never understood how the worked into the whole "to be perfect" thing...

i've heard of beta NFs being perfectionists and in general being associated with perfectionism.

also too, i think could definitely be perceived as perfectionistic.

[Danielle]

but i never understood how the worked into the whole "to be perfect" thing...

me neither

On the other hand, I can see the perfectionism in ESjs, I'm just not sure what exactly it has to do with Ne.

I don't think I'm any more a perfectionist than most people. I believe a lot of people would call themselves "perfectionists", it seems like a good vice to have (though I'm sure it really isn't). From the outside, my life is a mess, and I don't appear to have very high standards for life. Maybe the fact that I'm never satisfied with anything in life is a sign of perfectionism. It can be good, but it's never best.

[FDG]

Perfectionistic would be the last word to describe me, I only am if I really like what I'm doing.

[Hitta]

+Te/-Ti is the function of perfectionism. +Te is the function of actually being perfect, while -Ti is pensive.

[Hitta]

me neither

On the other hand, I can see the perfectionism in ESjs, I'm just not sure what exactly it has to do with Ne.

I don't think I'm any more a perfectionist than most people. I believe a lot of people would call themselves "perfectionists", it seems like a good vice to have (though I'm sure it really isn't). From the outside, my life is a mess, and I don't appear to have very high standards for life. Maybe the fact that I'm never satisfied with anything in life is a sign of perfectionism. It can be good, but it's never best.

You see perfection in ESjs because they share a common function, +Te/-Ti. This function is probably the function that could be associated with obsessive compulsive disorder.

[strrrng]

liveandletlive, Ne is associated with perfectionism because it is about ideals. So, a motivated INTj will be highly perfectionistic, i.e., trying to fulfill his vision - especially through +Te. That's why the ESj's h.a. is perfection....not only are they rational types who work hard, but they have these ideal standards for themselves deep down that drive them.

on wiki, there was this quote about Ne saying how the individual will focus on his vision of how reality should be, and will appear overly idealistic, but that is, in essence, a cause of perfectionism.

[Ezra]

It depends what you mean by perfection. For an LSI, perfection would be refining a definition within their ideal system. For an EII, it would be about becoming as moral as humanly possible.

I think, generally, IJs are those most likely to be concerned with perfection because Ti is about systems and perfecting those systems, and Fi is about bonds and maintaining those bonds.

[redbaron]

Well I know two ISFps who are very perfectionistic when it comes to some things (but not everything). Mostly they're perfectionists when it comes to their work (they are both graphic designers).

[Mediator Kam]

I'm not perfectionistic in my opinion, when it comes to work, I hurry through it. But if it's a design, I need to feel that it is perfect before I'm done. Most of the time it's not, so no one will see it.

But for other types, LSI and (possibly)EIE seems to be the most perfectionististic when it comes to getting work done.

[Creepy-pokeball]

Unless it is something like workers @ a nuclear plant, I could care less about perfectionism. Perfectionism is best left to things of dire consequence.

[aestrivex]

It depends what you mean by perfection.

(it won't let me input a message of 0 characters. mcnew, fix that.)

[Mediator Kam]

(it won't let me input a message of 0 characters. mcnew, fix that.)

lolololol white text


white text xD

[aestrivex]

lolololol white text


white text xD

but the background isn't white.

[Mediator Kam]

but the background isn't white.

either petition for white, or find the hex-code for the forum bg, which is eef2f7.

invisible text.


It worked!

[hellothere]

Well I know two ISFps who are very perfectionistic when it comes to some things (but not everything). Mostly they're perfectionists when it comes to their work (they are both graphic designers).

hmm yeah one of my ISFp friends is like this when it comes to certain things. For example he will spend hours tuning a guitar... or nitpick about the tiniest things in his recordings. But in other things in life he is quite sloppy.

[Exodus]

It depends what you mean by perfection. For an LSI, perfection would be refining a definition within their ideal system. For an EII, it would be about becoming as moral as humanly possible.

I think, generally, IJs are those most likely to be concerned with perfection because Ti is about systems and perfecting those systems, and Fi is about bonds and maintaining those bonds.

I agree. Ti can lead to an extreme need for thoroughness - like your experience of organizing music files obsessively. I also know an ENTp who plays video games and feels like he absolutely has to complete every last objective, even if it's not strictly necessary to beating the game. I have the same kind of tendency.

I suppose Fi could also be related to perfectionism, since IxFjs seem to usually be quite perfectionistic. But the relation isn't as clear as with Ti.

[liveandletlive]

liveandletlive, Ne is associated with perfectionism because it is about ideals. So, a motivated INTj will be highly perfectionistic, i.e., trying to fulfill his vision - especially through +Te. That's why the ESj's h.a. is perfection....not only are they rational types who work hard, but they have these ideal standards for themselves deep down that drive them.

on wiki, there was this quote about Ne saying how the individual will focus on his vision of how reality should be, and will appear overly idealistic, but that is, in essence, a cause of perfectionism.

that makes a lot of sense, thanks strrrng!

[Exodus]

I don't really see ENFjs as perfectionistic. Maybe when they engage Ti and Si they tend to go overboard?

[Blaze]

which elements and types are most associated with perfectionism?

esfj
infj
estj

in my experience.

[strrrng]

to what extent are "visions" implemented by Ne valuing types?

depends. if they have the willpower, they probably will implement them to some degrees.

and hhkkmr, I agree with your post.

[Gilly]

infj

*shudder*

[Ezra]

Ti can lead to an extreme need for thoroughness - like your experience of organizing music files obsessively.

I also think that is related to Si.

[Gilly]

I also think that is related to Si.

If the need is aesthetically related and not simply organizational, then yes.

[Ezra]

If the need is aesthetically related and not simply organizational, then yes.

Can you just confirm for me; are aesthetics solely related to Si, or are they some extent Se-related?

[Exodus]

I also think that is related to Si.

Perhaps both, but not Si without Ti.

[Gilly]

Can you just confirm for me; are aesthetics solely related to Si, or are they some extent Se-related?

Both. I think matching colors is rather Se+Ti. However, deriving pleasure from aesthetic pursuits (whatever the fuck that means) is more related to Si, I'd say.

[FDG]

There's one thing I'm perfectionistic about, and it's time. I'm always perfectly punctual and get very disgruntled at people that aren't.

[Gilly]

that's similar to what i think.

but i also think it's a tough call that maybe deserves its own thread and some scouring of the type descriptions.

it might be a useful distinction to ask _why_ someone cares about aesthetics.

Type descriptions are useless for all but spotting types once you know the theory.

[liveandletlive]

Type descriptions are useless for all but spotting types once you know the theory.

ummmmmm no, not really.

[Gilly]

ummmmmm no, not really.

Well, maybe they're not useless, but you don't need them. You may as well write your own once you understand the types.

[liveandletlive]

Well, maybe they're not useless, but you don't need them. You may as well write your own once you understand the types.

i guess, but i know that i still learn more about my type the more profiles i read. you also have to keep in mind that the profiles are written by different types, so that's informative in how other types perceive you too.

[Gilly]

i guess, but i know that i still learn more about my type the more profiles i read. you also have to keep in mind that the profiles are written by different types, so that's informative in how other types perceive you too.

Truth.