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Thread: LSI-ILI Benefit Relations (ISTj & INTp)

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    reyn_til_runa's Avatar
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    Default LSI-ILI Benefit Relations (ISTj & INTp)

    i have an ISTj friend and although we get along at times, we always come back to disagreeing about the same issues.

    1 - in arguing with this ISTj, i told him he can't see the bigger picture. he responded, "no, YOU can't." i clarified that by "bigger picture," i did not mean the literal future, which i suspected he had thought. sure enough, he started talking about plans for the literal future, how i have no concept of these plans, and that he has no idea what i mean by bigger picture. i told him that i meant looking beneath the surface, searching for truth, discovering the root of a problem, and as a result of doing these things, arriving at a more accurate perception of things. this process seems foreign to him although he'll do lip service to understanding it.

    related to the confusion with "bigger picture" is the misunderstood concept of correction for the sake of learning. 9/10 times, when i've pointed out a discrepancy or problem, and sought to correct it, he's considered it petty, not understood it at all, or completely denied there was a problem. i tried telling him several times that being discriminating is necessary to making improvements, but he doesn't seem to get it and continues to perceive my corrective tendencies as annoying, unnecessary, negative, argumentative, etc.

    2 -next ongoing conflict which i havent been able to understand fully but which seems related to Fe/Fi: he seems to interpret playfulness as affection and mocks me when i am playful as if i'm coming on to him. this REALLY does not work. why is this? also, he has the irritating habit of asking, half jokingly, why i am worshipping him. ?? he will say this when i have not even remotely complemented him. what is this hang up with repelling playfulness yet seeming to have a need to be praised,or perhaps just interpreting innocuous comments as praise?

    3 - third, our logical standpoints often put us at an impasse. he often considers my logic irrelevant to his points and i consider his logic irrelevant to mine. i mean when we are getting down to the technical points of an argument.

    4 -then there's trouble with Se. would be nice if the ISTj could offer me some of the Se i need, but it's way too forceful, nagging, basically confirms that i will do anything BUT what he suggests. if he "advises" me to quit smoking, he expects a postive reaction or some effort to quit. baffling. i told him many times that i will quit when i feel like it and that he should stop worrying about it. doesn't seem to make a bit of difference. it's as if "as his friend" i am expected to perform to his "healthy" standards, which i must say, don't seem all that healthy or realistic to me.

    i don't mean to bash ISTjs at all, but would like a little more insight into the type and into their relationships with INTps. i don't see much appeal for the long term although i think there's possibly an attraction to each other in the early stages and that they can be good "distant" friends, not too wrapped up in each others' lives.
    whenever the dog and i see each other we both stop where we are. we regard each other with a mixture of sadness and suspicion and then we feign indifference.

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    Very interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    1 - in arguing with this ISTj, i told him he can't see the bigger picture. he responded, "no, YOU can't." i clarified that by "bigger picture," i did not mean the literal future, which i suspected he had thought. sure enough, he started talking about plans for the literal future, how i have no concept of these plans, and that he has no idea what i mean by bigger picture. i told him that i meant looking beneath the surface, searching for truth, discovering the root of a problem, and as a result of doing these things, arriving at a more accurate perception of things. this process seems foreign to him although he'll do lip service to understanding it.
    It would be useful if we knew exactly what you were talking about, but from what I understand of your personality and style, it seems that you were using your but with some ; that annoys him since his works more limited to his and goals. By that I mean the following -- his "big picture" is more an extrapolation of his logical understanding of reality; a typical unhealthy manifestation of this in LSIs is an inclination to go for conspiracy theories.

    Your bigger picture, I suspect, takes to another level, enlarged by , and extrapolating your understanding of things as they are.


    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    related to the confusion with "bigger picture" is the misunderstood concept of correction for the sake of learning. 9/10 times, when i've pointed out a discrepancy or problem, and sought to correct it, he's considered it petty, not understood it at all, or completely denied there was a problem. i tried telling him several times that being discriminating is necessary to making improvements, but he doesn't seem to get it and continues to perceive my corrective tendencies as annoying, unnecessary, negative, argumentative, etc.
    You are probably using arguments that he sees as irrelevant and missing the point, as if you were "nit-picking for the sake of nit-picking", and he sees that as negative : you are nit-picking for the sake of annoying him.


    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    2 -next ongoing conflict which i havent been able to understand fully but which seems related to Fe/Fi: he seems to interpret playfulness as affection and mocks me when i am playful as if i'm coming on to him. this REALLY does not work. why is this? also, he has the irritating habit of asking, half jokingly, why i am worshipping him. ?? he will say this when i have not even remotely complemented him. what is this hang up with repelling playfulness yet seeming to have a need to be praised,or perhaps just interpreting innocuous comments as praise?
    This is a disconnect on his interpretation of your not-so-clear . You "give off" some kind of that he has no doubt in his about being "worshipping him"; his "need to be praised" is typical dual-seeking. If you want to see an extremely unhealthy example of this, see the Enver Hoxha video in the "LSI videos" thread.


    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    3 - third, our logical standpoints often put us at an impasse. he often considers my logic irrelevant to his points and i consider his logic irrelevant to mine. i mean when we are getting down to the technical points of an argument.
    This is standard versus disconnect. What you see as most relevant to the case he sees as secondary, and vice-versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    4 -then there's trouble with Se. would be nice if the ISTj could offer me some of the Se i need, but it's way too forceful, nagging, basically confirms that i will do anything BUT what he suggests. if he "advises" me to quit smoking, he expects a postive reaction or some effort to quit. baffling. i told him many times that i will quit when i feel like it and that he should stop worrying about it. doesn't seem to make a bit of difference. it's as if "as his friend" i am expected to perform to his "healthy" standards, which i must say, don't seem all that healthy or realistic to me.
    His serves his understanding of how things should be, which includes you not smoking. End of story.


    Quote Originally Posted by reyn_til_runa View Post
    i don't mean to bash ISTjs at all, but would like a little more insight into the type and into their relationships with INTps. i don't see much appeal for the long term although i think there's possibly an attraction to each other in the early stages and that they can be good "distant" friends, not too wrapped up in each others' lives.
    Relationship of benefit -- you are the beneficiary. That means that he's interesting to you due to his Se and even, in an amusing way, to his Ti. You, however, probably annoy him due to (1) your (to him) over-focus on Ne, your stronger Ni that mocks his HA, and your low concern for Fe which he craves the most from people.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Hot Message FDG's Avatar
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    Sensing + thinking = do this!
    Intuition + thinking = let's do it this way instead

    As you see, it's a never-ending cycle.

    (as opposed to sensing+feeling= we could do this if that's okay with you? and intuition+feeling=mmm i kind of see what i should do, maybe later and now we might do this instead)
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Quote Originally Posted by FDG View Post
    Sensing + thinking = do this!
    Intuition + thinking = let's do it this way instead

    As you see, it's a never-ending cycle.

    (as opposed to sensing+feeling= we could do this if that's okay with you? and intuition+feeling=mmm i kind of see what i should do, maybe later and now we might do this instead)
    absolutely. kinda describes ILE-SLE relations a little bit too. but less cantankerous than the LSI-ILI one, where they have different kinds of logic.

    also, i think reyn when he tells you to quit smoking it's coming from his 8th function/Si where he goes around telling everybody about what they need to do to take care of their health. i wouldn't personalize this. tell him that every problem you have, you have it because you smoke. lol. why won't this window open? it must be because i smoke. then he'll back off that one.

    i do agree with expat on how you have added Ne to the possibilities equation. this would really slap his polr then.

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    Quote Originally Posted by betterthandead View Post
    With ISTJs the only way to get along with them is doing it their way. Like if they want you to help them, forget about your own life you have to do exactly as they say.
    yeah, which i think is probably nearly impossible for an INTp. i assume this would be seen as a suppression of one's own personality, at least on the part of the INTp.

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    it's as if "as his friend" i am expected to perform to his "healthy" standards, which i must say, don't seem all that healthy or realistic to me.
    Well I ain't gonna lie and say that shit doesn't fuck up your lungs royally and makes em ugly, but it's usually a multitude of unhealthy lifestyle factors that fucks people over. Nobody likes nagging, but maybe he really does care about you and he just doesn't want anything bad to happen. But I agree it puts you in a lose-lose situation. Do what he says, well then you're his bitch now. Don't do what he says, and well - you'll end up being fucked over by the cigs because life likes to spite people that way. Why that shit and alcohol is socially acceptable, and pot isn't- is beyond my comprehension. Kinda like how people feel once you hit 18 then it's fine, you can be spat on and throat fucked like nobody's business but have soft, gentle sex with a kid and that's somehow soooooo wrong and the Worst. Sin. Ever. God, people annoy me soooo much.

    I take very good care of myself so I don't get that, but people nag me about getting a job and conforming to social norms and other such things. Which I end up actually being happier if I obey, just because they treat me sooo much better if I do. ((And we all like to be treated nicely by people even if we do hate 'em)) It's like, you don't want to be a bitch but sometimes ya gotta be....I guess.

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