View Poll Results: please select two: one from first two and another one from last four:

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15. You may not vote on this poll
  • ST or NF

    6 40.00%
  • NT or SF

    13 86.67%
  • if "ST or NF" chosen: rules>people?

    4 26.67%
  • if "ST or NF" chosen: rules<people?

    4 26.67%
  • if "NT or SF" chosen: explanations/systems>dealing with people/goodness

    6 40.00%
  • if "NT or SF" chosen: explanations/systems<dealing with people/goodness

    8 53.33%
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  1. #1

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    Default -

    -
    Last edited by Dee; 02-26-2009 at 03:14 AM.

  2. #2
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    This is so vague. How do you expect to get consistent responses?

  3. #3
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Why can't you talk to me like a sane human being?

  4. #4
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    o_O Whatever man.

  5. #5
    UDP's Avatar
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    Dee, this just doesn't seem like it is going to produce anything worhtwhile. What are you really trying to guage here?
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

  6. #6
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    How? I don't know what the fuck these questions mean!!!!

  7. #7
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Ok I won't! But if you want anyone to participate I suggest you clarify!

  8. #8
    Rick's Avatar
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    Which types would be more likely to go on a never-ending quest for Ti -- any Ti whatsoever, no matter how bad it is?
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

  9. #9
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    Which types would be more likely to go on a never-ending quest for Ti -- any Ti whatsoever, no matter how bad it is?
    Some type that also seems incapable of accepting good Ti when it's offered...

  10. #10

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    Aye heh. Wth is this. I don't understand the question either. But if I were to follow dee's wish and "just vote" what good would a randomly chosen answer be?
    INFp

    If your sea chart does not match reality, go with reality (Old mariner saying)



  11. #11
    Joy's Avatar
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    Which quadra are you trying to attribute "goodness" to?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  12. #12
    Joy's Avatar
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    To answer your question, no I don't think this is a good method of figuring out one's type.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  13. #13
    Joy's Avatar
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    Dee, which posters here explain things in a manner which you find most useful, enjoyable, or easy to understand? Which ones do you have a difficult time effectively communicating with?
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  14. #14

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    this poll makes no sense.

  15. #15
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    dee, when you churn out shit like this, no one gives a shit. It's all nonsensical, strung-together visions, intuitions and spontaneous thoughts. It means fuck all to anyone except you. You need to learn to start constructing proper ideas that can be put down in word so as to be expressed to this community. Otherwise, you will get absolutely nowhere in your trying to type yourself.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  16. #16
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    I understand it (or at least the idea behind it). This is part of the reason I am not confident that dee has a Ti hidden agenda. (Though at this point I still think he's xFxp.)
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  17. #17
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I don't think dee has a Ti hidden agenda at all. He just throws random musings into the air whenever he feels like it. He doesn't even try to structure.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  18. #18

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    I didn't really understand the questions. But I vote SF still.
    INTp
    sx/sp

  19. #19
    Joy's Avatar
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    That's why I keep asking which posters he understands or communicates with best, which ones explain things in a way which is easiest for him to understand.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Some type that also seems incapable of accepting good Ti when it's offered...

    gilly, your problem is that you're too smart. consequently, when you try to dualize, you make too much sense, and drive away your duals in terror. if you want to dualize successfully, you should endeavor to become more stupid, and to make even less sense than you already do.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    I understand it (or at least the idea behind it). This is part of the reason I am not confident that dee has a Ti hidden agenda. (Though at this point I still think he's xFxp.)
    he's trying to navigate for his quadra by giving extremely bad Ti information excerpts (rules = Ti, people = Fi, etc.) he doesn't want a legitimate explanation about what's going on, he wants a system. how is this not incredibly obvious?


    edit: stupid multi-quotes.

  22. #22
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    I'm not sure his interactions here justify a Ti hidden agenda. And I think logical PoLRs can look pretty similar. And just because someone's trying to make sense of a system doesn't mean that the person values Ti.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  23. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy View Post
    And just because someone's trying to make sense of a system doesn't mean that the person values Ti.

    no, but take a step back from that and look at this guy specifically.

  24. #24
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    gilly, your problem is that you're too smart. consequently, when you try to dualize, you make too much sense, and drive away your duals in terror. if you want to dualize successfully, you should endeavor to become more stupid, and to make even less sense than you already do.
    God, I'm glad someone's finally with me on this one...

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by niffweed17 View Post
    he's trying to navigate for his quadra by giving extremely bad Ti information excerpts (rules = Ti, people = Fi, etc.) he doesn't want a legitimate explanation about what's going on, he wants a system. how is this not incredibly obvious?
    I agree.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  26. #26
    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    He does not have a Ti hidden agenda! I've known so many IEIs and I can tell what that looks like ... they actually make sense most of the time b/c they are so avid on gaining all the information out there to "fully understand" a subject and usually do not spew out random shit like this before they have thoroughly gone through many sources to justify whatever they're trying to do. They'd always have a reason for doing what they do (and want to explain it, unlike dee who just says do it and doesn't care whether anyone understands his "point" or not) and would be more receptive to Ti Ego types' suggestions/explanations which I clearly do not see in him. They more or less tend to sift through the points people tell them (who are more education the subject) and then try to digest it all. I don't see a person with Ti hidden agenda coming up with something as utterly pointless as this, and yes, I do understand what he is attempting to do but it's almost laughable b/c I don't see how this would be beneficial in any way to his knowledge of Socionics?

    Personally I agree with Joy, he has a Ti PoLR imo as well - probably a Te hidden agenda. You can see this as him trying to compile objective data ... it doesn't look like he tried to understand any sort of system because when Gilly/Ezra/other Ti Ego types talk to him, he brushes aside what they try to explain ... I see him getting more benefit from Te Ego types such as Joy. We'll have to see about his answer on that though.

    Honestly, he reminds me a lot of the ExFps I know ... ahem, does he not in some way resemble liveandletlive in the way he goes about asking questions ? Does anyone else see the coorelation between the two?


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  27. #27
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    I see no correlation. Liveandletlive makes much more sense imo. The closest parallel I see is with XoX, with the difference that XoX doesn't seem to have any pretense, unlike dee who has plenty.

    My opinion is that dee's too stubborn - or too afraid - to face the reality of how utterly clueless he is in this subject, yet he lacks the (totally unwarranted) self-confidence of a hitta, who just assumes that it's everyone else who's wrong.

    So dee is caught in the trap of hoping that people will agree with him - in his own terms. That will never happen.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  28. #28
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    There is definitely a lot of Ti seeking getting thrown around in here. Can't say I didn't try

  29. #29
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Liveandletlive makes much more sense imo.
    roflofogus

    She doesn't say as many insane things but she's certainly no closer to a working understanding of Socionics.

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    roflofogus

    She doesn't say as many insane things but she's certainly no closer to a working understanding of Socionics.
    she is, sort of.

  31. #31
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Only because dee refuses to learn.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilly View Post
    Only because dee refuses to learn.
    Yes, but that's a very big "only".
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  33. #33
    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux View Post
    it doesn't look like he tried to understand any sort of system because when Gilly/Ezra/other Ti Ego types talk to him, he brushes aside what they try to explain ...
    Apparently not. Expat thinks we're duals. Also, when I've spoken to him in the past, he's been very receptive to what I've said, if only for a few days, before he's off on another of his typing jaunts.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

  34. #34
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat View Post
    Yes, but that's a very big "only".
    No kidding.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra View Post
    Apparently not. Expat thinks we're duals.
    I may have said that, but I'm not sure of duality as such -- I do think you have a nice Ti-Fe axis going on, but it could also be semi-duality (or whatever, as far as that goes).
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

  36. #36

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    and so, you Ti types, what exactly are you suggesting?

    it's not like dee has paid any attention to anyone.

  37. #37
    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    Funny, I don't feel tension with you. I just feel like you should listen to me

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    @ Joy:

    i think the posters that gave me most tension at some point are: imfd95, logos, Gilly, Expat.
    Interesting. That doesn't help much with Te vs. Ti though.

    Everyone else: dee doesn't refuse to learn or refuse to listen. He just isn't getting the right type of feedback. (I don't think this mode of communication conveys his tone very well.) What he does is says things that he knows may not be true because he wants someone to tell him he's wrong. Then he argues his point not because he believes it, but because he wants someone to show him why it's wrong. He's looking for criticism, but it ought to be about his ideas or suggestions specifically, not him personally. (If you read the SEE/ILI duality description, it makes sense that he could be SEE. This is one of the ways that SEE's draw out ILI's. What could be better for The Critic than to be with someone who's always looking for Te criticism? Also, the SEE is the asker and the ILI is the declarer. Keep in mind though that SEE's are Se dominant, so their version of "asking" is different from a lot of other types. This also explains why ILI's have enough patience for this type of interaction.)

    That interaction is one way in which he learns, and it sort of reminds me of a rather ADHD SEE friend I once had. It was funny listening to her and the LII I was with communicate. LII's like to explain things to people by helping them build a logical system/structure regarding the subject. They use points of reference in that system to explain new things, or explain how things are connected, and SEE's don't play along very well. From the LII's perspective, it's like "How can I explain something to you when I have no idea what you're thinking? Nothing remains constant! You change your opinions around so much that there's no way someone could keep up. I start to explain something and before I can finish you're off on something else, or you just totally change your stance on the subject, or you don't follow what I'm trying to explain."

    (Correct me if I'm wrong, dee.)
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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  39. #39
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    i'm flattered albeit confused.

  40. #40
    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dee View Post
    guys, i just read the whole thread and i appreciate your help guys like sooo much.

    i just want to say that i think Expat hates me and wants me to get mistyped into a conflictor.

    i think it should be pretty obvious Ti doesn't help me. stuff like Joy's proposition to choose from a bunch of definitions was really good though. i really like Joy's posts.

    those that said i'm more likely Ti super ego are the clever ones here. the thing is when i would use my possible super ego, structuring is very hard and i use a stronger function - Ne a lot instead. criticism or interventions are very irritating. i often don't even want you to agree with it. i just want you to judge for yourself. and i honestly don't give a s* whether you reply or not, just as long you just read and understand what i wrote.

    and the questions i gave are not rocket science, fat, lazed people who complained.
    I don't understand you. Well, sometimes I do, but you rarely make sense. Because of that you're really frustrating to read so I usually try not to. I'd compare you to an energizer bouncy-ball in a rubber room.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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