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Thread: Why Ne and Si need each other(?)

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    Default Why Ne and Si need each other(?)

    v: I never thought about that though
    v: there is no
    v: Ne
    v: in my life at all
    r: and so... you're probably searching desperately for something you can *do*, yes?
    r: but not even knowing where to start?
    v: that has been my life for the last 2-3 years
    Si needs to just constantly do things, focus on things here in the now, and Ne comes up with all the ideas but can't do them?
    Something like that?


    Any further explanation on this?
    Or, how to deal with it if you are Si?
    I realize this has been a big issue for me, because, I have almost no Ne people in my life.



    PS: and then Si stagnates and overfocuses on the moment unless things keep coming up...
    Pre-2013 post are written with incomplete understanding.

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    To make the most of the present moment.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    To make the most of the present moment.
    That makes too much sense. It cannot be!

    Is that generalizable across dualities (guess I'm constraining myself a la EII/LSE) in terms of satisfying the HAs? Haha, back to the books I go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori2
    Is that generalizable across dualities (guess I'm constraining myself a la EII/LSE) in terms of satisfying the HAs? Haha, back to the books I go.
    Yes, but obviously not in the same way. All Alphas and Deltas should relate to that to some extent, though, I would expect.
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    I'd say it wasn't as much a case that they need each other as that they compliment each other. Imagine a Ne/Se valuer, or a Ni/Si valuer. Wouldn't work would it? Too much conflict. So in this way, Ne/Si and Se/Ni fit very well.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    There was a thread awhile ago about Ne and I replied (before I really realized that as an INFp, I wasn't "supposed" to be a strong Ne user) and someone said "what, are you an INFp who uses a lot of Ne?". I am and I haven't really been able to figure out why. (The dual-type theory does a lot to explain it). I have an ISFp friend at whom I'm always throwing out ideas and this Si-Ne thing totally works with us. I point out ideas, possibilities, uses for his talents and he gets this big grin on his face. I'm always coming up with new things to focus on in my own creative pursuits and thinking about the possibilities sometimes makes me crazy. But anyway, yeah I think Si needs Ne to wake it up and Ne needs Si to live in the moment. Exactly.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    There was a thread awhile ago about Ne and I replied (before I really realized that as an INFp, I wasn't "supposed" to be a strong Ne user) and someone said "what, are you an INFp who uses a lot of Ne?". I am and I haven't really been able to figure out why. (The dual-type theory does a lot to explain it). I have an ISFp friend at whom I'm always throwing out ideas and this Si-Ne thing totally works with us. I point out ideas, possibilities, uses for his talents and he gets this big grin on his face. I'm always coming up with new things to focus on in my own creative pursuits and thinking about the possibilities sometimes makes me crazy. But anyway, yeah I think Si needs Ne to wake it up and Ne needs Si to live in the moment. Exactly.
    You do realise that IEIs are good with Ne, it's simply that they don't value it?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    There was a thread awhile ago about Ne and I replied (before I really realized that as an INFp, I wasn't "supposed" to be a strong Ne user) and someone said "what, are you an INFp who uses a lot of Ne?". I am and I haven't really been able to figure out why. (The dual-type theory does a lot to explain it). I have an ISFp friend at whom I'm always throwing out ideas and this Si-Ne thing totally works with us. I point out ideas, possibilities, uses for his talents and he gets this big grin on his face. I'm always coming up with new things to focus on in my own creative pursuits and thinking about the possibilities sometimes makes me crazy. But anyway, yeah I think Si needs Ne to wake it up and Ne needs Si to live in the moment. Exactly.
    You do realise that IEIs are good with Ne, it's simply that they don't value it?
    Yes I know. But I wouldn't say that I don't value it. I value it less than Ni, yes, in the sense that Ni is always underneath everything. It's like Ni is at the core of who I am. Ne exerts itself in my work and when it comes to ideas. Hard to say that I don't value it though. I still need Si and Se to take action in the moment. (Si to first calm my racing head and focus on the here and now and Se to take action and make decisions)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I get along fine without people telling me how to use my talents, you gotta improvise and figure it out for myself, but it'd be cool if someone could tell me what I'm good at.

    God Ne, come!
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    There was a thread awhile ago about Ne and I replied (before I really realized that as an INFp, I wasn't "supposed" to be a strong Ne user) and someone said "what, are you an INFp who uses a lot of Ne?". I am and I haven't really been able to figure out why. (The dual-type theory does a lot to explain it). I have an ISFp friend at whom I'm always throwing out ideas and this Si-Ne thing totally works with us. I point out ideas, possibilities, uses for his talents and he gets this big grin on his face. I'm always coming up with new things to focus on in my own creative pursuits and thinking about the possibilities sometimes makes me crazy. But anyway, yeah I think Si needs Ne to wake it up and Ne needs Si to live in the moment. Exactly.
    You do realise that IEIs are good with Ne, it's simply that they don't value it?
    Yes I know. But I wouldn't say that I don't value it. I value it less than Ni, yes, in the sense that Ni is always underneath everything. It's like Ni is at the core of who I am. Ne exerts itself in my work and when it comes to ideas. Hard to say that I don't value it though. I still need Si and Se to take action in the moment. (Si to first calm my racing head and focus on the here and now and Se to take action and make decisions)
    this is good. i feel like i value most functions, just some more than others. and some i can do and some i can't do very well. but it's a mistake to not value functions since they are all worthwhile.

    redbaron....so how dya get your Se?

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Ne sees how things may be, Si sees what's happening now. (And Ni sees how things are changing from the past to the present to the future, Se things how things are now.)

    It's an oversimplification, but it captures the idea of why they need each other. I'm more familiar with how it works between ESxj/INxj couples. I'll refrain from describing it though, at least for now.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sunshine Lively
    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron

    Yes I know. But I wouldn't say that I don't value it. I value it less than Ni, yes, in the sense that Ni is always underneath everything. It's like Ni is at the core of who I am. Ne exerts itself in my work and when it comes to ideas. Hard to say that I don't value it though. I still need Si and Se to take action in the moment. (Si to first calm my racing head and focus on the here and now and Se to take action and make decisions)
    this is good. i feel like i value most functions, just some more than others. and some i can do and some i can't do very well. but it's a mistake to not value functions since they are all worthwhile.

    redbaron....so how dya get your Se?
    I dunno. I don't get enough, that's for sure. I muster it up within myself I guess. LOL I do find myself looking on with awe at this one person I know who has a lot of it (he's ESTp).
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I have like 1 person who's full of Ne goodness. In fact he planted the idea in my head to go snowboarding, which before then I just hadn't thought much about till last time.

    But yes, I always find that I can do lots of interesting things... I just never have an idea of where to start =[
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Let's go to fairyland Minde's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    To make the most of the present moment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    All Alphas and Deltas should relate to that to some extent, though, I would expect.
    Well, I sort of do. Not really, though. Not completely. There's the future to think about, too, for example.
    INFj / EII / FiNe
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    In all honesty to me Ne looks like magic and I'm just a curious kid so I'll sit there and look at you work your wonders.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Call this "The Ne Appreciation Thread"
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Well yeah I mean cmon, Si people are just lazy couch potatoes =D
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
    Well yeah I mean cmon, Si people are just lazy couch potatoes =D
    yeah they get lulled into their warm cozy routines until an interesting Ne person comes along and shows them the possibilities and suddenly life's exciting again. I think they get bored with themselves but don't know what direction to take.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
    Well yeah I mean cmon, Si people are just lazy couch potatoes =D
    yeah they get lulled into their warm cozy routines until an interesting Ne person comes along and shows them the possibilities and suddenly life's exciting again. I think they get bored with themselves but don't know what direction to take.
    Damn that's pretty spot on there.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    from toronto with love ScarlettLux's Avatar
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    So an Ego person literally tells the person new things they could do? I want a real life example of helping ... it's actually hard for me to visualize besides the person spouting off random ideas? I don't think that could quite be it.

    helping and the like is much easier for me to understand in real life context.


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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    So an Ego person literally tells the person new things they could do? I want a real life example of helping ... it's actually hard for me to visualize besides the person spouting off random ideas? I don't think that could quite be it.

    helping and the like is much easier for me to understand in real life context.
    Things we COULD do, not ordering us around. And spouting off random ideas works. One or two of those will hook and i'll start doing em. Not so hard to understand.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Okay, here's an example of me using Ne with my Si friend. He's a designer and notices everything, all the ugly "art" that our church produces or whatever so he's always pointing it out to me. So I say to him things like "you should present them with a proposal to re-design the website. In fact, I think you could launch a freelance design business". Stuff like that makes him happy. Not that he's necessarily going to do it but the fact that I know he's good at that stuff and that I see that potential in him either gets the wheels turning or just pets his ego. One or the other.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    I get antsy when people get "stuck". So if people want to become "unstuck", I'm totally the person to come to, because I will throw stuff at them until something new sticks. And it's not random, it's relative. I never really identified with the supposed randomness of Ne observations and connections, but of course they don't seem random to me.

    Sometimes it feels like I'm running a race mentally, trying to stay one step ahead of the other person. You got a problem? I have a possible solution for that. Shot that one down? Ah ha, I have another one. Oh that won't work (yes it WOULD if you would try it, but then again, it is your reality that you cannot do it, and I accept your reality)...well something you just said triggered TWO MORE ideas. It gets even better once an idea is tentatively accepted, once there is the tiniest glint of hope. Because I can throw out a dozen ideas related to that one, and something is gonna alter your perspective. I have honestly never failed to come up with stuff. I also would not agree with anyone who claimed my ideas were not practical or workable .

    I get frustrated when people pessimistically shoot down my ideas. Still, I can always find somesmalltinytiny thing that they can try. Because I don't give up. Everything is connected and there is always something, even if it's "only" a minor change in attitude.

    But very few people see this side of me. Si-ego types actually like new ideas, especially the curious Alphas (and Deltas have a perfectionistic/solution-craving streak). It is rare to find people who like new ideas/new perceptions and genuinely appreciate them. Other N-types are usually enamored with their own perceptions (I understand, so am I). The remaining ego-types barely notice me at all to be honest with you. So to most people, I am very quiet and warmly affirming, but they don't know the half of me.

    I feel especially happy when I help people fulfill potential. Si-ego people really seem to appreciate this. (note: I have little experience with ESTjs and therefore find them intimidatingly perfect, but I have had longterm close relationships with representatives of the other three types)

    It is very hard for me to come up with examples just in general. I have a thousand examples but none come to mind. Hmm. Here's one, not sure if it is the best:

    My ESFj brother always has a lot of younger people around him. He hangs out with them a lot. Teaches them practical things like how to drive, listens to their secrets and insecurities, serves as chaperone etc. To most, this is a sign of immaturity, because he doesn't have many friends his own age (actually he does, but he engages them differently). He was confused and wondered if there is something wrong with him, and what is his purpose in life? To him, successful peers are people to learn from and emulate. That's great, but he needs to make an active difference himself. That's where the young people come in, there is just a natural gravitation there. But he is constantly put down and a few people have found him to be suspicious. This has come close to ruining his life.

    I noted that it is rare to find an adult that young people, especially teenagers, implicitly trust and want to be around. They listen to him, and he has their ear. I recommended that he find a way to position himself in a leadership position (as he is constantly frustrated with authority figures and their inability to empathize), and be the kind of leader who actually listens and mentors, rather than just bosses around. Now he feels he may have a purpose in life, and maybe he's not so weird just because kids like him.

    ETA: Now the long-term potential is great, but the really important thing is that now, in any given moment, he can remember he has worth, he has potential, and it is already being realized if he just takes the time to see. There is something worthy in who and how he is. People really need to know this about themselves.
    EII
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    Yeah I think shooting down ideas that you're not sure will work or not is pretty fucking stupid.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
    Yeah I think shooting down ideas that you're not sure will work or not is pretty fucking stupid.
    That's an ESI trait right? My mom does that allllll the time, never wants to do anything new.

    I think she hates Ne.
    D-SEI 9w1

    This is me and my dual being scientific together

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScarlettLux
    So an Ego person literally tells the person new things they could do? I want a real life example of helping ... it's actually hard for me to visualize besides the person spouting off random ideas? I don't think that could quite be it.
    Maybe it's like one kind of perception feeding the other? One person saying, "Hey, this could happen, this could be," and the other saying, "That sounds pretty spiffy. Let's do it to it"?
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    Naw, ESE's do it too.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Yeah, I have zero experience with ESIs but I have experienced this with ESEs. They want the ideas but they shoot them down. It's aggravating.

    To me, it really feels like they're just being pissy and whiny. And if someone is whining and upset then they are stuck. Since being stuck is so unbearable for me, it's hard to understand that anyone else could possibly want to stay that way for any reason.
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    Ne is great whenever things get stale and bogged down. you flip a switch and come up with creative solutions....don't always implement them because the purpose is to get unstuck not necessarily to implement everything that is thought of. (beta-gamma might see this as wasting time and energy and not following everything up). this is also why, when situations are stable and working well, people with leading Ne get bored. so Ne is good in new situations, crisis situations, situations where brainstorming and changing the paradigm is what is needed.

    Si i think is great when things need to calm down and relax, when you've been working hard mentally or physcially and want to look at and appreciate. when you need a dose of reality and a recharge. Ne dominants live in their minds and have to be physically brought back to reality. this is accomplished through tuning into their five senses. many Ne dominants get a lot of benefit from yoga and Tai Chi and the like because of the gentle practice of coming back to reality and anchoring oneself.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir
    Quote Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
    Yeah I think shooting down ideas that you're not sure will work or not is pretty fucking stupid.
    That's an ESI trait right? My mom does that allllll the time, never wants to do anything new.
    I think with ESIs, they're only open to new ideas if they can see the practical value of the idea () and the long-term value of it (), which is why they might appear to not like doing anything new.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir
    I think she hates Ne.
    Unfortunately Ne is indeed their PoLR, whereas you being an SEI it would be your dual-seeking function instead. That's the trouble with quasi-identical relations, one's dual-seeking is the other's PoLR and vice versa.
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