VERY offensive description of EIE/ENFj

[machintruc]

WARNING: This description is VERY offensive, and may shock or disturb you. I said "OFFENSIVE", then it is "OFFENSIVE". You understood me.

More concretely : if you feel too sensitive or easily shocked or disturbed, DO NOT read this description. It's NOT for you then.

[spoil:1dd98dc7d7]
[align=left:1dd98dc7d7]EIE's are pretty cool. Their makes them a good company, they are VERY sociable and they like people. They accept people as they are, and are usually glad to make everyone happy.

EIE's are cool, this is true, but EIE's are also retarded. They average to a low IQ. But as retards, EIE's have more capabilities to appreciate the world. That's the positive point of being retarded.

EIE's are fascinated with power. They are manipulative and persuasive. They generate behaviours in people, even the most tough-minded people. Most reputated dictators and politicians were EIE's. An archetype of the persuasive EIE is : ******.

EIE's are overly sensitive. They cry even for very minor deceptions or bad news ; especially women - that's why they are called "the weaker sex".

EIE's are zealous. They usually have Cinderella-like behaviour. I mean, they are very dependable. When you ask them to clean something, they will polish it like a masterpiece painting. When you ask them to write 10 pages of something, they are likely to write you 20. When you ask them to cook something for 6 persons, they will cook it for 12. I mean, they are heavy-handed. EIE's have sense of perfection, but not of precision.

EIE's are attracted by heavy norms () and pressure (). That's why they like LSI's. Although LSI's are narrow-minded and boring, they will see them as Prince Charming. EIE's like austerity, and really seem to continuously ask for it. They feel they should suffer to feel alive. That's what LSI's are for.

EIE's are self-effaced. Yes, I like modest people, but EIE's modesty is really FAR TOO EXCESSIVE. I mean, they are masochistic. They comply with everything, adapt endlessly, work very hard and efficiently even when tired or depressed. They are prone to exhaustion most of the time.

EIE's often have health problems (weak ). They care about everybody but themselves. They are EXCESSIVELY allocentric (again), and don't think they really exist. They feel they can do everything, just because the world asks for.

EIE's are overly naïve and imaginative. Their stupid makes them imagine mostly stupid and useless things. When using their , EIE's are like something's wrong with them. At least they don't act as cold or hostile like IEI's or ILI's.

EIE's like to chatter on random stupid things like most types. But they handle loneliness very easily too. EIE's don't need much stimulation. They enjoy even the worst things of the world as they were the coolest. Why ? I can't understand. It's probably the retarded thing ( = retarded).

EIE's usually like to read books on retarded things, and their favourite author is always a retarded LSI. Why do they like LSI's ? What do they have more than others ? I mean, they make everyone feel wanna kill themselves ! They are narrow-minded rednecks, and are as friendly and affectionate as personal computers ! Because EIE's are fascinated by strength because they are WEAK.

EIE's are just so stupid. I can't understand them. It's too hard for me.
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[Jarno]

But they handle loneliness very easily too.

I remember to have read somewhere that EIE can't be alone for very long times. My personal experiences tells me that too.

What made you think they can handle loneliness very easy?

[machintruc]

But they handle loneliness very easily too.

I remember to have read somewhere that EIE can't be alone for very long times. My personal experiences tells me that too.

What made you think they can handle loneliness very easy?

At least, I know more than one EIE people who do irl.

And think of ******...

[Ezra]

Go do one for SLEs, because I want to make some nice rebuttals.

Yes, I would really like to see that.

[machintruc]

It'd be cool to have an offensive SLE description.

btw, anyone who hasn't read the SLE domain page, check it out : http://wikisocion.org/en/index.php?title=SLE_domain it's pretty awesome and was a main source of inspiration (with Ganin's "uncovered") for my offensive descriptions.

Go do one for SLEs, because I want to make some nice rebuttals.

then do it ! it'd be funny if an SLE writes an offensive description of his own type.

[Mea]

YOU are retarded. Not the EIEs nor their Ni.

[Red Sky]

I can't understand them. It's too hard for me.

That means that I have accomplished my mission in life!

[Expat]

This description, just like others by machintruc, is not "offensive", it's just -- innacurate and inconsistent, so, just bad.

Good "offensive" descriptions - like some of the better "uncovered" ones in Ganin's site - are good because the types are still recognizable, even as their traits are exaggerated and twisted. Another good example was a SLE description HumanBean posted ages ago. But these by machintruc are just sort of pointless.

An "offensive" description of EIEs might be something like this: "EIEs are called 'the actors', and 'Hamlet' by the Russians. Yeah, they have to be actors because without an audience to serve as mirror, they have no idea what they are themselves. And like Hamlet, they can't make up their minds about what they should do or believe. That's why they need a LSI, who's there to give the EIEs their lines in the script of life, which the EIEs can't write on their own. Ask an EIE what he is and what he wants in life, and the answer will be a variation of "to impress an audience", except when the answer is tailored to impress you, his audience in that very moment. Is an EIE of a more retired, reserved disposition (they do exist)? The EIE will make a point of somehow saying how mysterious, dignified, reserved he is among a world of obnoxious louts. Is the EIE of a more artistic disposition? The EIE will make a point of how unique he is and how many other unique people he knows. Is the EIE the more typical yuppie? Notice the constant references to how busy and stressed he is, the meetings he had or is going to have, how he's going to be screwed if he doesn't deliver this time. Etc etc etc. Whenever you meet an EIE, never forget this: you have never arrived."

[Kristiina]

machintruc's description (only read parts of it) is just obnoxious. And displays a good portion of bad socionics knowledge and not-type-related bad qualities. After the ISTj bad description I lost all belief in whatever machintruc says, so I'm not all that shocked or bothered. But even as a bad-quality "uncovered" description, do we really need to keep it in the internet? It's so bad that it's not even funny and it doesn't serve any other purpose than.... umm... it doesn't serve ANY purpose, but it can cause harm in socionics understanding when some idiot N00b reads it. So I propose that it should be deleted and forgotten.

I will not write an uncovered INTj description as rebuttal because most INTjs are very fun and cool people, and I don't know machintruc enough to write an extensive description of machintruc's personality, behavior and special traits. :wink:

[Vilzu]

I'm impressed. This is by for the best post I've ever read on these forums although it is overblown
I think EIE's are people with a big heart but they lack reasonableness. I'm looking forward to a LSI description from you, machintruc.

Btw. I think Kristiina's last post confirms the highy sensitive part of the text

[Jarno]

I'm impressed. This is by for the best post I've ever read on these forums

How long have you been on this forum then? :wink:

[Vilzu]

I'm impressed. This is by for the best post I've ever read on these forums

How long have you been on this forum then? :wink:

I've been reading this forum for 1-2 years but haven't been a member for that long.
I consider machintruc's post good because of it's informative value although it has pieces of bitterness in it. I had lot's of fun moments reading it

[Kristiina]

it does have some type-related value, but it's basically horribly full of BS. People who know the type ENFj probably gringe at the non-type-related stuff and people who don't know ENFjs see that some makes sense and start assuming all of it makes sense.

[Jarno]

people who don't know ENFjs see that some makes sense and start assuming all of it makes sense.

Yes that's a risk.

You have to know the source (=machintruc) a bit to see things in perspective. Although he is a nice addition to this forum. I'm always curious what (eccentric) things he came up with.

[machintruc]

"EIEs are called 'the actors', and 'Hamlet' by the Russians. Yeah, they have to be actors because without an audience to serve as mirror, they have no idea what they are themselves. And like Hamlet, they can't make up their minds about what they should do or believe. That's why they need a LSI, who's there to give the EIEs their lines in the script of life, which the EIEs can't write on their own. Ask an EIE what he is and what he wants in life, and the answer will be a variation of "to impress an audience", except when the answer is tailored to impress you, his audience in that very moment. Is an EIE of a more retired, reserved disposition (they do exist)? The EIE will make a point of somehow saying how mysterious, dignified, reserved he is among a world of obnoxious louts. Is the EIE of a more artistic disposition? The EIE will make a point of how unique he is and how many other unique people he knows. Is the EIE the more typical yuppie? Notice the constant references to how busy and stressed he is, the meetings he had or is going to have, how he's going to be screwed if he doesn't deliver this time. Etc etc etc. Whenever you meet an EIE, never forget this: you have never arrived."

What's offensive in THAT description ?

[Expat]

What's offensive in THAT description ?

For you, "offensive" means only "he's stupid" or "like ******" or "liar" etc etc?

[machintruc]

What's offensive in THAT description ?

For you, "offensive" means only "he's stupid" or "like ******" or "liar" etc etc?

It's actually more an "amplified" or "exaggerated" description rather than an "offensive" one. Just like AVGN's reviews.

[Expat]

Ok, then I will add "and they suck" at the end. Happy?

[machintruc]

Ok, then I will add "and they suck" at the end. Happy?

No, because EIE's don't suck.

[machintruc]

it doesn't serve ANY purpose, but it can cause harm in socionics understanding when some idiot N00b reads it. So I propose that it should be deleted and forgotten.

So-called "offensive" descriptions are not meant to be taken literally or seriously. You don't need to know socionics to understand this. N00bs aren't retarded. It's pretty much like sexist jokes or such.

[marooned]

Expat's description is offensive because it emphasizes the EIE as a mirror. A non-person who can only put on acts and reflect what is outside of them... like a shell... inside, the EIE in this description has no idea who he is... so busy is he playing a part... he has no identity that is his, no self, and relies upon the LSI to show him he is real and that there is a "self" in there somewhere.

Telling someone, "you are a non-person" is more offensive than saying, "you're stupid and retarded, because of your stupid and retarded ."

Also, aside from being mildly "offensive," Expat's offensive description actually says something about EIE (it's hitting upon something real to "insult"), unlike Machintruc's descriptions that follow a similar formula: " is retarded. Ethical types are stupid and weak. Women are weak. women cry all the time and are retarded. blah, blah, blah."

[machintruc]

Expat's description is offensive because it emphasizes the EIE as a mirror. A non-person who can only put on acts and reflect what is outside of them... like a shell... inside, the EIE in this description has no idea who he is... so busy is he playing a part... he has no identity that is his, no self, and relies upon the LSI to show him he is real and that there is a "self" in there somewhere.

Telling someone, "you are a non-person" is more offensive than saying, "you're stupid and retarded, because of your stupid and retarded ."

Also, aside from being mildly "offensive," Expat's offensive description actually says something about EIE (it's hitting upon something real to "insult"), unlike Machintruc's descriptions that follow a similar formula: " is retarded. Ethical types are stupid and weak. Women are weak. women cry all the time and are retarded. blah, blah, blah."

I never said I made "subtle" humour. For you Betas, humour has to be coherent, heavily intellectual, and sometimes technical, or confrontational. Like puns or SLE-like offensive descriptions.

For us Alphas, humour should be PURE humour based on stupid or retarded things. I have known an awesome ESE dude who made humour in that style. One time he said "We can't say that a woman is weak because it'd be like a repetition".

[Kristiina]

Expat's description is offensive because it emphasizes the EIE as a mirror. A non-person who can only put on acts and reflect what is outside of them... like a shell... inside, the EIE in this description has no idea who he is... so busy is he playing a part... he has no identity that is his, no self, and relies upon the LSI to show him he is real and that there is a "self" in there somewhere.

Telling someone, "you are a non-person" is more offensive than saying, "you're stupid and retarded, because of your stupid and retarded ."

Also, aside from being mildly "offensive," Expat's offensive description actually says something about EIE (it's hitting upon something real to "insult"), unlike Machintruc's descriptions that follow a similar formula: " is retarded. Ethical types are stupid and weak. Women are weak. women cry all the time and are retarded. blah, blah, blah."

I never said I made "subtle" humour. For you Betas, humour has to be coherent, heavily intellectual, and sometimes technical, or confrontational. Like puns or SLE-like offensive descriptions.

For us Alphas, humour should be PURE humour based on stupid or retarded things. I have known an awesome ESE dude who made humour in that style. One time he said "We can't say that a woman is weak because it'd be like a repetition".

Machinetruck, that humor is some retarted alpha humor and should not be posted anywhere else.

[Kristiina]

it doesn't serve ANY purpose, but it can cause harm in socionics understanding when some idiot N00b reads it. So I propose that it should be deleted and forgotten.

So-called "offensive" descriptions are not meant to be taken literally or seriously. You don't need to know socionics to understand this. N00bs aren't retarded. It's pretty much like sexist jokes or such.

Alphas should not attempt to make sexist jokes. Without the subtleness, it would sound too much like, [spoil:3bc52b8299]"F***. hahaa... I said f***. Men have di**s. Pu**y. Hahaha, I said Pu**y. Women have pu**ies. Haha."[/spoil:3bc52b8299]

[Expat]

[spoil:f1b5214220]"F***. hahaa... I said f***. Men have di**s. Pu**y. Hahaha, I said Pu**y. Women have pu**ies. Haha."[/spoil:f1b5214220]

You make it sound like Beavis and Butt-Head are Alphas.

[Mediator Kam]

I laughed at both jokes, sorry lolol alpha noobs.

[marooned]

I never said I made "subtle" humour. For you Betas, humour has to be coherent, heavily intellectual, and sometimes technical, or confrontational. Like puns or SLE-like offensive descriptions.

For us Alphas, humour should be PURE humour...

Ha. You know, I still can't figure you out.

[Megan]

I think Machintruc is clearly deluded but I think his "offensive" description has some "truth" embedded in it here or there. I think he actually knows an ENFj quite well based on a couple of his other posts. Nevertheless, amongst other things the whole stupid thing and the anti thing makes it seem ridiculous overall and I regret having wasted my time reading it.

Expat's "offensive" description (were it to be written to be taken seriously)would be something that would seem to have been put together by someone petty, mean spirited and vindictive and very based on personal motivations rather than detached observations. It would just seem unoriginal and filled with the same old stupid stereotypes of the "actor" thing rather being based on any real understanding of the negative internal workings of the ENFj mind.

As far as negative descriptions go I like the ENTp one over at socionics.com

[mustachio]

Expat's description is offensive because it emphasizes the EIE as a mirror. A non-person who can only put on acts and reflect what is outside of them... like a shell... inside, the EIE in this description has no idea who he is... so busy is he playing a part... he has no identity that is his, no self, and relies upon the LSI to show him he is real and that there is a "self" in there somewhere.

Telling someone, "you are a non-person" is more offensive than saying, "you're stupid and retarded, because of your stupid and retarded ."

Also, aside from being mildly "offensive," Expat's offensive description actually says something about EIE (it's hitting upon something real to "insult"), unlike Machintruc's descriptions that follow a similar formula: " is retarded. Ethical types are stupid and weak. Women are weak. women cry all the time and are retarded. blah, blah, blah."

I never said I made "subtle" humour. For you Betas, humour has to be coherent, heavily intellectual, and sometimes technical, or confrontational. Like puns or SLE-like offensive descriptions.

For us Alphas, humour should be PURE humour based on stupid or retarded things. I have known an awesome ESE dude who made humour in that style. One time he said "We can't say that a woman is weak because it'd be like a repetition".

it isn't alpha humour that is hard for betas to understand. just yours. not only is it unsubtle but there is nothing to indicate that it shouldn't be taken seriously. your blatant pitiful lack of style deprives you of any kind of wordplay. your description could very well have been written by a twelve-year-old we wouldn't know the difference. then again, i really enjoy dark humour. unfortunately, you really are in serious need of practice here. your "creative" posts lack transcendance. you are unfunny in a Dane Cook sort of way.

[misutii]

I posted a machine trans. of negative type descriptions (apparently by russians on a forum lol) here: http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17313 I think it was posted before but not all together and using a different translator

[lefty]

this description is like socionics out of harvard's Onion publication or like those joke horoscopes. i guess its possible to make bad stereotypes out of anything. it's kind of so bad its like crappy email spam or bad office humor...something i guess gammas and redundant deltas enjoy.

[Expat]

Expat's "offensive" description (were it to be written to be taken seriously)would be something that would seem to have been put together by someone petty, mean spirited and vindictive and very based on personal motivations rather than detached observations. It would just seem unoriginal and filled with the same old stupid stereotypes of the "actor" thing rather being based on any real understanding of the negative internal workings of the ENFj mind.

depends on what you mean by "taken seriously". And yes, it's unoriginal. But how would an intentionally offensive descriptions not seem to have been put together by someone "petty, mean spirited and vindictive"?

From misutti's list, here's what they say about the ENTj:

From that the bastard this Jack – unscrupulous, immoral, selling, deprived abuse, conscience, honesty and a step: all does only for itself

Despite the clumsy translation, a few things seem clear -- "bastard", "unscrupulous", "immoral", "sellout?", "does things only for himself" etc

My description doesn't seem so bad.

[marooned]

It seems to me, the primary motive of Expat's O.D. was to write something that is *actually* offensive (and, yes, based on stereotypes to an unfair extent)... Machintruc's primary goal seems to be humor... there is something funny about it... but not really... but sort of... but not really... Maybe it is a sort of bastardized Alpha humor... it reminds me of that post of Logos' where he said

The forum's portrayal of IEIs has prompted the psychological conditioning that recruits IEIs into imposed negative self-images, which leads to internalized oppression and the psychic bondage of reinforced stereotypes.

and then

some IEIs feel that they are unable to escape this bondage and have reluctantly accepted this portrayal, while other IEIs are merely are blind to this psychological conditioning and oppression of negative self-images.

I couldn't tell if Logos was being sarcastic, but I thought he was, and I found these statements of his quite amusing.

It's this sort of jolly, bright and sunny disposition type of humor...

I'm still thinking.

The annoying thing is that were these conversations in person, the answer about whether someone's "joking" or not would become immediately apparent, and post after post of confusion about "is Machintruc serious?" "Is he not serious?" etc. would not be necessary.

Darn online communication. It makes some things so very difficult.

The reason why Logos' statements were so amusing to me was in part due to how it was making fun of IEI's appearing as "victims" here, and the discussion in the "Validity of the Socion.com" topic was taken to being overly dramatized in Logos' account of it (which is just fitting, since IEI's have a strong dramatic streak, generally or supposedly). Gah, I can't explain it. It was just really funny.

If I take Logos' humor style and wad it up and deform it a bit, it may resemble Machintruc's style.

I'm still trying to figure out the nature of "Alpha humor" (as opposed to everyone else's humor)... aside from the posting of random images and youtube videos throughout threads--that's just usually run amuck... I get that. And even occassionally do that sort of thing myself.

Also, Expat's description, though offensive, was amusing as well (sort of)... It's like Expat's and Machintruc's descriptions are inverse in relation to one another... the former intends to be offensive, but it is over-the-top in a way and then is mildly funny; the latter intends to be funny (but is absurdly labeled as "offensive") but goes too far and then ends up being "off" in some way... due the lack of subtlety perhaps... and people can't tell if he's being serious or not... or figure out what he's up to.

[Expat]

It seems to me, the primary motive of Expat's O.D. was to write something that is *actually* offensive (and, yes, based on stereotypes to an unfair extent)...

I was offensive on purpose.

But as for stereotypes -- of course type stereotypes are misleading to individuals of the type. Yet, in order to "stick", even in an unfair and offensive way, they have to have some relation to the type, otherwise they're not "offensive", they're just stupid.

For instance, how would that work:

"The INFj, that mean, dangerous creature -- don't ever get into a dark alley with an INFj, since you may not come out without the INFj beating you up or mistreating you in some way. The INFj, who may cause a traffic accident for the kicks of it. He'll go HA-HA-HA as you lie on the ground begging for help".

"Whenever you see a loud, attention-seeking, obnoxious person totally convinced he's God's gift to parties and who will insist on embracing and kissing and calling everyone's attention for the silliest reasons, perhaps for starting a slide show of his puppies -- yep, you guessed right: you have met the INTp".

[marooned]

...For instance, how would that work:

"The INFj, that mean, dangerous creature -- don't ever get into a dark alley with an INFj, since you may not come out without the INFj beating you up or mistreating you in some way. The INFj, who may cause a traffic accident for the kicks of it. He'll go HA-HA-HA as you lie on the ground begging for help".

"Whenever you see a loud, attention-seeking, obnoxious person totally convinced he's God's gift to parties and who will insist on embracing and kissing and calling everyone's attention for the silliest reasons, perhaps for starting a slide show of his puppies -- yep, you guessed right: you have met the INTp".

Since those don't seem to have anything to do with INFjs or INTps they are simply nonsense... which I believe is amplified to make your point regarding Machintruc's descriptions--that he is just saying "XYZs are retarded, because of their retarded leading IM element, which is retarded. XYZs are so stupid."

The qualilties of being stupid or retarded of course don't bear any relation to someone's type (at least not in and of themselves...). A stereotype, on the other hand, at least points out the ways in which a particular type can be stupid and retarded (as specific to that type), and then has the potential to be offensive because it's generalizing all members of the type as being representatives of the type's worst possible attributes. Because it's based then on at least some type-related information, it can succeed in being offensive (it can "stick").

I suppose the same can apply to humor about types.

[Creepy-pokeball]

I was hoping this was some sort of satire. Ya' know, for the sake of humanity and all. But my hopes were for not.

I guess the irony is that retarded infers the lack of growth of some sort, when one of the ENFj nicknames is "Growth Teacher" lol.

So, tonka toy, how does it feel to be imprisoned by the mind of a 5 year old?