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Thread: Can you help? (Take 2)

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    Default Can you help? (Take 2)

    I guess youíre all thinking ďOh no hereís Five doubting his type againĒ ....... and you'd be right to say that

    Basically, Iím doubting my type, for several good reasons - this isn't me just going through a mood. This is a definite feeling that, although the ISTj description fits me to a certain extent, I may not actually be an ISTj. Here's why:

    Firstly, from what I can gather from posts on the forums, ISTjs are a dominating presence, or have the ability to dominate when required. Iím not a dominator, in general. I can be stubborn and I can be tenacious, but that doesn't make me a dominator. My general philosophy in conversations is to be a quiet, nice guy who will put in the occasional laugh or two Ė I donít try to impress myself on others and direct them. I sometimes find it hard to interact Ė this may be because Iím still a teenager, and many teens donít listen to each other. But, either way, I am not a dominating, driving force in a discussion. Also, I am (or am getting to be) quite laid back, or at least I come across as being quite calm about things.

    Iím also affable, open-minded and reflective, and will probably become the philosophical type in later life (I think that Iíll develop a slightly bemused view on life, because life is so full of idiosyncrasies and I've got a dry sense of humour). Iím also confident in my beliefs (I donít constantly wonder whether they are Ďrightí), and can impress my ideas on many different people because I will listen to their points of view, and argue logically and tenaciously. This isnít characteristic of an ISTj, so Iím wondering whether my long personality description that I posted in the first ĎCan you helpí post was wrong Ė after all, Iím maturing rapidly and changing over time.

    Secondly, I found this short piece - ďIf you are S you will prefer order and harmony. You will revel in a fine atmosphere. You will disdain slovenliness and carelessness. If you are N you will be welcoming and receptive to the unusual and varied. You will appreciate different perspectives and loath close-mindedness.Ē I identify with all of the S-related behaviours. Regarding the N behaviours, I like to keep an open mind and I like others to be open-minded but, generally, I think this passage indicates me to be an xSxx, but it means that my so-called Ďrationalí behaviour may just be a result of being a Sensor and NOT necessarily of being a J.

    Thirdly, I have changed since we typed me as an ISTj. Iím also wondering whether Iím using, or have used, a weaker function as my primary function (but that might just be speculation). Iíve also noticed that, when I look at fictional ISTjs like Mace Windu, Atticus Finch and Morpheus, I donít behave like them. Those three are, for example, almost always serious, and they carry an aura of strength or power. With me, Iím different Ė I like a little more humour in my life, and my strength is inside. Actually, I think that I project an aura of gentleness and being a nice guy, but have strength inside.

    I understand that, if I'm actually an ISTj, this could just be my hidden agenda manifesting. Even so, I think that my line of reasoning is rational and logical, so what do you think about my points?

    Looking forward to your replies,

    Five

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    Iím not really INTp, Iím ISFj.


    I think you are ISTj, for one thing that post reads very ISTj like.

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    =)

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    I still think you're an ISTJ. It seems like most of the things you were picking on in your post were some stereotypical traits that might not apply to everyone. One thing you mentioned is not have the "dominating appearence", which, because you are young, probably has more to do with not learning to use your Extraverted Sensing funciton well yet. I think ISTJs have a greater control over their "will power" as they age.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Default Re: Can you help? (Take 2)

    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    I guess youíre all thinking ďOh no hereís Five doubting his type againĒ ....... and you'd be right to say that

    Basically, Iím doubting my type, for several good reasons - this isn't me just going through a mood. This is a definite feeling that, although the ISTj description fits me to a certain extent, I may not actually be an ISTj. Here's why:

    Firstly, from what I can gather from posts on the forums, ISTjs are a dominating presence, or have the ability to dominate when required. Iím not a dominator, in general. I can be stubborn and I can be tenacious, but that doesn't make me a dominator. My general philosophy in conversations is to be a quiet, nice guy who will put in the occasional laugh or two Ė I donít try to impress myself on others and direct them. I sometimes find it hard to interact Ė this may be because Iím still a teenager, and many teens donít listen to each other. But, either way, I am not a dominating, driving force in a discussion. Also, I am (or am getting to be) quite laid back, or at least I come across as being quite calm about things.

    Iím also affable, open-minded and reflective, and will probably become the philosophical type in later life (I think that Iíll develop a slightly bemused view on life, because life is so full of idiosyncrasies and I've got a dry sense of humour). Iím also confident in my beliefs (I donít constantly wonder whether they are Ďrightí), and can impress my ideas on many different people because I will listen to their points of view, and argue logically and tenaciously. This isnít characteristic of an ISTj, so Iím wondering whether my long personality description that I posted in the first ĎCan you helpí post was wrong Ė after all, Iím maturing rapidly and changing over time.

    Secondly, I found this short piece - ďIf you are S you will prefer order and harmony. You will revel in a fine atmosphere. You will disdain slovenliness and carelessness. If you are N you will be welcoming and receptive to the unusual and varied. You will appreciate different perspectives and loath close-mindedness.Ē I identify with all of the S-related behaviours. Regarding the N behaviours, I like to keep an open mind and I like others to be open-minded but, generally, I think this passage indicates me to be an xSxx, but it means that my so-called Ďrationalí behaviour may just be a result of being a Sensor and NOT necessarily of being a J.

    Thirdly, I have changed since we typed me as an ISTj. Iím also wondering whether Iím using, or have used, a weaker function as my primary function (but that might just be speculation). Iíve also noticed that, when I look at fictional ISTjs like Mace Windu, Atticus Finch and Morpheus, I donít behave like them. Those three are, for example, almost always serious, and they carry an aura of strength or power. With me, Iím different Ė I like a little more humour in my life, and my strength is inside. Actually, I think that I project an aura of gentleness and being a nice guy, but have strength inside.

    I understand that, if I'm actually an ISTj, this could just be my hidden agenda manifesting. Even so, I think that my line of reasoning is rational and logical, so what do you think about my points?

    Looking forward to your replies,

    Five
    If you think like Lou Dobbs, then you're an ISTJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Yoda is INTP and not ISTJ because he is not only the deep philosophical type, but he is also extremly confident in his beliefs and visions. An ISTJ would always be wondering if their beliefs are actually "right". Yoda seems to be able to impress his ideas on to a lot of diffrent people. He's the laid back, open-minded, reflective leader and not a dominating presence. ISTJ leaders are more like the two guys I mentioned above; George Steinbrenner and Gordan Ramsey.
    I have explicitly mentioned some of these behaviours that an ISTj would NOT exhibit as being my personality. In Star Wars, I can identify more with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda than Mace Windu, so why do you still think I'm an ISTj?

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    I'm not sure that identifying with fictional characters is the best way to type yourself, especially since typing fictional characters in the first place is also questionable.

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    Very good point there Expat, but the question still remains: why don't these obviously non-ISTj descriptions of me not have an effect on your opinions?

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    Because they're not obviously non-ISTj.

    For instance, the ISTjs I know do perceive themselves as confident in their beliefs, and they will argue their case logically - but only from the point of view of the conclusions they had already reached anyway - only they don't realize it.

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    By the way, you described yourself as "stubborn and tenacious, but not a dominator" - - personally "stubborn" is one of the word I personally associate strongly with ISTjs. "Dominators" are more the types with as their first function, especially ESTp but also ESFp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    For instance, the ISTjs I know do perceive themselves as confident in their beliefs, and they will argue their case logically - but only from the point of view of the conclusions they had already reached anyway - only they don't realize it.
    However, this description was reached through discussion with other people. This was a result of my own perceptions cross-referenced with the perceptions of others who know me well. Besides, ISTps are stubborn and tenacious - in fact, I identify closely with ISTp descriptions. Additionally, I feel that I'm too laid-back and too humourous to match the descriptions of ISTjs, or Js in general.

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    I think you may well be ISTp - I just said that those things you mentioned were not obviously non-ISTj as they stood.

    Why not take one, or even two tests?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    Sorry, Expat. I guess I didn't quite understand you. Could you please recommend some tests?

    Five

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    Five,

    Take a look at this:
    http://the16types.info/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1789

    Does it help?

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    Thank you Hugo.

    I selected 11 and 16, which were ISTp and ESTj. But I'm not sure how good my self-knowledge is (after all, tests depend on that knowledge) and the ISTp description sounded a little too independent to be me, and the line "will not compromise personal ease and comfort" confused me.

    Overall, I'm a little unsure. Not one of the descriptions put up there suddenly 'clicked' and I never thought That is the one.

    Hmm ... what do you think?

    Five

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    Addition: The thing that bothers me about taking tests is that I'm always unsure about some of my answers, because I can't see how I come across to other people.

    Five

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    Well, if you want to take the long, funcitonal test, it is here:

    http://socion.info/cgi-bin/beta3testresults358.cgi

    But I still think you'll come out a TiSe type.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    OK, thank you, I'll try that out.

    I just wanted to spill out a problem that may be related to Socionics: sometimes, I am unsure about who I want to be, or how I come across. Sometimes I want to be a nice guy, other times a dignified scholar, other times a strong stalwart - I have trouble finding my natural self, and I have trouble, when I do find my natural self, figuring out what stereotype it falls under.

    Do you have any thoughts on this?

    Five

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Öthe ISTp description sounded a little too independent to be meÖ
    It doesnít have to be 100% accurate description of you. But donít forget the opposite description to you mentioned in 11 and 16 are equally important.

    So for 11:
    This describes my personal qualities inaccurately:
    Tend to dramatise events, and because of this, successfully stimulate people. Brilliant speaker. Well orientated in the flow of the present time, as well as the past. Calling people to learn from the dramatic lessons of the past. Inclined to spirituality. These personal qualities are least like me; make me feel most uncomfortable if I try to adopt them as my own personal qualities; and make me feel most uncomfortable if a person I am dealing with possesses these personal qualities.


    And for 16:
    This describes my personal qualities inaccurately:
    Well orientated in the flow of the present time, as well as the past. Put forward ideas which strengthen a group of people. Very finely influences the emotions of people. Successfully opens the private world of people, by creating a nostalgic and dramatic atmosphere. These personal qualities are least like me; make me feel most uncomfortable if I try to adopt them as my own personal qualities; and make me feel most uncomfortable if a person I am dealing with possesses these personal qualities.


    Öwill not compromise personal ease and comfort
    This means that you not are not willing to give up your comfort.


    Not one of the descriptions put up there suddenly 'clicked' and I never thought That is the one.
    Itís not meant to click straight away.

    What do you think now?

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    Tend to dramatise events, and because of this, successfully stimulate people. Brilliant speaker. Well orientated in the flow of the present time, as well as the past. Calling people to learn from the dramatic lessons of the past. Inclined to spirituality.
    I might play up events for comic effect, but generally I don't exaggerate. I'm not a brilliant speaker, although I am confident and generally will talk with people when presenting instead of at them. I prefer to keep my mind clear: thus, when I'm doing something, I keep focussed on that action; when I'm planning for the future, I plan with nothing else on my mind. This is because of my Zen Buddhist spirituality.

    Well orientated in the flow of the present time, as well as the past. Put forward ideas which strengthen a group of people. Very finely influences the emotions of people. Successfully opens the private world of people, by creating a nostalgic and dramatic atmosphere.
    I'm not sure about when I am orientated. I do put forward ideas which strengthen a group, although teens don't listen well and I can sometimes have a hard time getting myself heard. I can't open up people's private worlds - I generally have no desire to (it's their private world, after all). If I want to, I use empathy, understanding and compassion, although showing these qualities can be somewhat difficult for me.


    Quote:
    Öwill not compromise personal ease and comfort

    This means that you not are not willing to give up your comfort.
    Could you please give me an example of how this quality could be expressed by a certain person?

    Thank you for your help so far,

    Five

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    It seems you are ESTj.

    Another helpful note:
    ISTps easily adapt to ever changing situations/circumstances. ESTjs don't.

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    ISTps easily adapt to ever changing situations/circumstances. ESTjs don't.
    I used to be bad about changing situations/circumstances, but as I've grown older I'm much more relaxed and calm about it.

    Five

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    This seems to further confirm that you are ESTj.

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    Or ISTJ.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Or ISTJ.
    Why do you think that? He did not choose istj on the test.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo
    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky
    Or ISTJ.
    Why do you think that? He did not choose istj on the test.
    Becausse sometimes people don't always test correctly.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    ATTICUS FINCH = INFJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Why are we saying that I'm ISTJ? Take a look at what implied
    istps generally look/act a lot calmer/softer.

    istjs aren't calm at all really. if she comes off as domineering but then acts all confused if someone says she's intimidating/aggressive, then she's istj.

    also if she's constantly telling you to remember to take care of your health whenever you get stressed out.
    I am calmer and softer than an ISTj, which would be domineering. I'm not sure about the health thing, but generally I'm quite careful about my health. If someone has problems then I've generally found that it can be traced to bad health eg. irregular meals, bad sleeping patterns, alcoholism etc.

    The descriptions of my behaviour that I have given are accurate, because I cross-check them with people who know me well. So could somebody please tell me why they think that I'm ISTj when my behaviour is more in line with an ISTp?

    Five

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    Five,

    Don't worry too much.

    You know yourself better than me or anybody else.

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    Good point, Hugo. How about I discuss this on the Delta Quadra forum and see whether I can 'connect' with them while I do it?

    Five

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Good point, Hugo. How about I discuss this on the Delta Quadra forum and see whether I can 'connect' with them while I do it?

    Five
    ok.
    MAYBE I'LL BREAK DOWN!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by vague
    Rocky's posts are as enjoyable as having wisdom teeth removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    Good point, Hugo. How about I discuss this on the Delta Quadra forum and see whether I can 'connect' with them while I do it?

    Five
    I'm getting the feeling that the more people you consult, the more unsure you become.

    I think it is better that you don't consult anyone anymore and just rely on what you already know - about yourself and about socionics.

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    Unfortunately, I don't know much about Socionics at all.

    I'll give the Delta forum a go.

    Thanks for your help!

    Five

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