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Thread: EIEs/ENFjs emphasizing presentation and style over appearance?

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    Default EIEs/ENFjs emphasizing presentation and style over appearance?

    I read somewhere that ESFjs don't mind if you're ugly as long as you present yourself nicely. Is this the same with ENFjs?

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    Default Re: ENFjs and physical appearance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I read somewhere that ESFjs don't mind if you're ugly as long as you present yourself nicely. Is this the same with ENFjs?
    Think about it. ESEs = Si ego. EIEs = Si PoLR. Do the maths.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Default Re: ENFjs and physical appearance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    I read somewhere that ESFjs don't mind if you're ugly as long as you present yourself nicely. Is this the same with ENFjs?
    i like cute boys...and cute girls (boys more, though).

    I'm starting to realize I'm shallow. I always thought my ESFJ co-worker was shallow with her sex in the city ringtone and all her dates and talking about dating at work, but i've come into a period of realizing that I'm the shallow one, because she at least realizes how much is riding on a relationship.

    Edit: "More money, more sex, I'm addicted to fresh," Jay-z.
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    I had an ENFJ female colleague, who was the most beautiful girl I've ever seen.

    She dated one heck of an ugly guy...

    But he is rich and famous (dj), that was probably what attracted her.

    Her former boyfriend was also ugly though, and he was poor too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    I had an ENFJ female colleague, who was the most beautiful girl I've ever seen.

    She dated one heck of an ugly guy...

    But he is rich and famous (dj), that was probably what attracted her.

    Her former boyfriend was also ugly though, and he was poor too.
    wasn't that guy LSI ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by machintruc
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    I had an ENFJ female colleague, who was the most beautiful girl I've ever seen.

    She dated one heck of an ugly guy...

    But he is rich and famous (dj), that was probably what attracted her.

    Her former boyfriend was also ugly though, and he was poor too.
    wasn't that guy LSI ?
    good question.

    The dj she's living with right now, is an ISFP (SEI), so he's her supervisor.

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    yeah its weird. seems like there is so much supervisory attraction. I always thought ISFps would be too girly for ENFjs but I could see the S part being attractive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    yeah its weird. seems like there is so much supervisory attraction. I always thought ISFps would be too girly for ENFjs but I could see the S part being attractive.
    to be precise, it's the Si part that is attractive, because it's the ISFP's strong point and ENFJ's weak point. Therefor makes a hugh impression on the ENFJ.

    And since ENFJ's are beta's who are known to want a partner to look up to, a supervisor is quickly seen as ideal. Especially when he has a status as famous dj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    yeah its weird. seems like there is so much supervisory attraction. I always thought ISFps would be too girly for ENFjs but I could see the S part being attractive.
    to be precise, it's the Si part that is attractive, because it's the ISFP's strong point and ENFJ's weak point. Therefor makes a hugh impression on the ENFJ.

    And since ENFJ's are beta's who are known to want a partner to look up to, a supervisor is quickly seen as ideal. Especially when he has a status as famous dj.
    Interesting. My ENFj aunt and ISFp uncle have been married for 30+ years, supervisory marriage. I never thought about the initial attraction this way. My uncle had a really impressive job (climbing up the corporate ladder. Yeah I know, some people think or thought in the 70s that that was impressive) and I'm sure that was part of the attraction for her.
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    One of my best friends is a ENFj female, but she is too flippant for me, I want someone who has more depth of feeling.

    She definitely cares a lot about her appearance. She also is an avid pageant participant, and very beautiful.

    D-SEI 9w1

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    I'm not shallow, I just have high standards.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by redbaron
    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    yeah its weird. seems like there is so much supervisory attraction. I always thought ISFps would be too girly for ENFjs but I could see the S part being attractive.
    to be precise, it's the Si part that is attractive, because it's the ISFP's strong point and ENFJ's weak point. Therefor makes a hugh impression on the ENFJ.

    And since ENFJ's are beta's who are known to want a partner to look up to, a supervisor is quickly seen as ideal. Especially when he has a status as famous dj.
    Interesting. My ENFj aunt and ISFp uncle have been married for 30+ years, supervisory marriage. I never thought about the initial attraction this way. My uncle had a really impressive job (climbing up the corporate ladder. Yeah I know, some people think or thought in the 70s that that was impressive) and I'm sure that was part of the attraction for her.

    I had a long term relationship with an ISFP. It lasted three or four years and he wanted to get married at first. He was a good breadwinner, but would rather be being creative. He always always turned me onto to new ideas and I'm changed by knowing him. He recently married an Alpha and I was most pleased either identical or dual, I think. He sort of even gave me the chance to say "no you're mine!" or something which was most flattering, but I benefitted him by guiding him right into where he needed to be which was this marriage. An NT, in this case, can really bring home the bacon so this man can be free to persue his talent.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    yeah its weird. seems like there is so much supervisory attraction. I always thought ISFps would be too girly for ENFjs but I could see the S part being attractive.
    ENFJs have our Se side, yeah, so in a sense...some of us...can sort of go either way and I know at the time I really dug the feminine aspects of the ISFP. He was very good in bed and was experimental, too.
    Lefty
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington
    yeah its weird. seems like there is so much supervisory attraction. I always thought ISFps would be too girly for ENFjs but I could see the S part being attractive.
    to be precise, it's the Si part that is attractive, because it's the ISFP's strong point and ENFJ's weak point. Therefor makes a hugh impression on the ENFJ.

    And since ENFJ's are beta's who are known to want a partner to look up to, a supervisor is quickly seen as ideal. Especially when he has a status as famous dj.
    yes, yes.

    I often look up to rich and famous people, but it's not being "just after the money". I like people I can respect and look up to. I think it's pretty much the same with infps, who are easily attracted to influential people.
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    I don't like people who are ugly because they don't take care of themselves. Some people are genetically ugly but make up for it with knowing their strengths and weaknesses. Some people with a huge chin look like morons, some look like strong charismatic people... So it is all in the way they present themselves. But yeah, Si PoLR. If they're ugly and they don't do anything special to make up for it, then they get no respect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I don't like people who are ugly because they don't take care of themselves. Some people are genetically ugly but make up for it with knowing their strengths and weaknesses. Some people with a huge chin look like morons, some look like strong charismatic people... So it is all in the way they present themselves. But yeah, Si PoLR. If they're ugly and they don't do anything special to make up for it, then they get no respect.
    Lol, christ, this is the stupidest shit ever. Do you realize you yourself are ugly in comparison to many other people, and you don't work as hard at being attractive in comparison to many others, and thus you, from your perspective, shouldn't be respected by them?
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    ugly people don't exist remember? They get thrown off a cliff at birth.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    you know i just think overall an ENFJ wants to feel good about the people in their life...to feel supported, loved, looked after. We're looking for a "coordinator" who is good at what we might not be good at ...scheduling, following through, puttting things into context socially. So we feel this way or that way about people based on looks, but just like a lot of people we're looking for a deeper connection to someone else. You know even with that other ENFJ chicks remarks, and she's obviously young, I think she's repelled by messy people, because she's looking for that duty bound, somewhat uptight socializing guardian figure.
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    honesty never pays off. Might as well lie like the rest of them - yeah, looks don't matter at all. What's inside is what matters. yeah.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    honesty never pays off. Might as well lie like the rest of them - yeah, looks don't matter at all. What's inside is what matters. yeah.

    come on...you are young, aren't you? our emphasis changes along with our type functions.
    Lefty
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    whatever. it's just so ironic to use a PoLR thread to read what people say about their PoLR to use it against them to make a PoLR hit. It is ironic, isn't it.
    EIE, ENFj, intuitive subtype.
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    I think it's rather clever actually.
    "Those who make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities..."

    - Voltaire

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    whatever. it's just so ironic to use a PoLR thread to read what people say about their PoLR to use it against them to make a PoLR hit. It is ironic, isn't it.
    Hey Kri.. I actually was confused about how you related it to the polr in your post. Like.. the way someone presents themselves, as in a certain way, I see as Fe since this is what is also attributed to ESFjs as I stated in my first post. But someone who presents themselves in an Si way-- i actually associate personal taste with Si-- might be distasteful? I am unsure, if you can't tell.

    Basically.. are physical attributes as likely to repulse an ENFj more than lack of forcefulness or other personality attributes? And let's exclude babies that drool

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    I pretty much think that my Si POLR is not as bad as it was before but I'm still self-concious. I don't think that ever goes away. I'm more comfortable with myself now and I feel like I have to constantly "look good" especially around guys i really like.
    ENFj Ni subtype 3w4
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    Quote Originally Posted by onetreehilluver
    I pretty much think that my Si POLR is not as bad as it was before but I'm still self-concious. I don't think that ever goes away. I'm more comfortable with myself now and I feel like I have to constantly "look good" especially around guys i really like.
    I wonder if this has anything to do with Si.

    Most woman are occupied with looking good. They don't all have Si as a POLR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jarno
    Quote Originally Posted by onetreehilluver
    I pretty much think that my Si POLR is not as bad as it was before but I'm still self-concious. I don't think that ever goes away. I'm more comfortable with myself now and I feel like I have to constantly "look good" especially around guys i really like.
    I wonder if this has anything to do with Si.

    Most woman are occupied with looking good. They don't all have Si as a POLR.
    I agree with you but what I meant was that among all my female friends I'm the one who is so self-concious and when someone starts to look at me I get pretty nervous.
    ENFj Ni subtype 3w4
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    What about personal hygiene of your partner - like if he didn't shower all day Saturday, or always brush his teeth? Or was wearing something questionable? Would it bother an Si polr person more than the average or no? I have an ENTj friend who thinks women's underwear should always be a matched set. Not sure if that has anything to do with his polr, but I did think it rather unusual that it seemed to be an unconscious expectation of his... Or maybe all guys are secretly hoping for that when the clothes come off

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    Quote Originally Posted by tiny_dancer
    What about personal hygiene of your partner - like if he didn't shower all day Saturday, or always brush his teeth? Or was wearing something questionable? Would it bother an Si polr person more than the average or no? I have an ENTj friend who thinks women's underwear should always be a matched set. Not sure if that has anything to do with his polr, but I did think it rather unusual that it seemed to be an unconscious expectation of his... Or maybe all guys are secretly hoping for that when the clothes come off

    ew, haha? if this is the case, i think i have Si polr. the matched underwear thing seems completely unreasonable, but i'd be sort of grossed out if i were dating someone with poor oral hygiene. admit that being TOO clean is a bad thing as well, but i have no idea what's unreasonable about asking for some pretty standard norms (bathing once a day, brushing teeth, etc.) doesn't strike me as ridiculous. if i were a guy, i doubt i'd notice the matched underwear or whatever. but that could be a common expectation among guys who got their main image of what a woman should look like when the clothes come off from watching skinemax movies.
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    Mmmm I don't really care about underwear, I think in those moments it's just better to get directly naked so even if she's wearing an old pijama, that won't change anything
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    i think enfjs aren't really about appealing to others unless they themselves are getting something out of it that they want.
    Lefty
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    I call Bullshit! ENFjs aren't always out to get something.

    The reason why ENFjs themselves have to look great is that the behavior of ENFjs depends on their self-perception. Self-perception is hightly dependant on how pretty/attractive/normal/invisible/ugly/sexy/horrible people think they are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I call Bullshit! ENFjs aren't always out to get something.

    The reason why ENFjs themselves have to look great is that the behavior of ENFjs depends on their self-perception. Self-perception is hightly dependant on how pretty/attractive/normal/invisible/ugly/sexy/horrible people think they are.
    Ditto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina
    I call Bullshit! ENFjs aren't always out to get something.

    The reason why ENFjs themselves have to look great is that the behavior of ENFjs depends on their self-perception. Self-perception is hightly dependant on how pretty/attractive/normal/invisible/ugly/sexy/horrible people think they are.
    Well, i didn't say theyre always out to get something. And basically I'm speaking for myself. It's more important for me to look good if i want something. Yeah and i disagree with you I think ENFJs have the balls to form their own judgement about how they look though it could be based somewhat on norms or what they intuit or sense others are thinking about them. I guess we're birds of a different feather given our enneagram differences. And youre also obviously younger than I am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    I read somewhere that ESFjs don't mind if you're ugly as long as you present yourself nicely. Is this the same with ENFjs?

    No, I do not believe such non-sense. Peoples bodies are very different. Ugly is...irrelevant unless highly distracting lol. I think it would be more ugly of oneself to destroy the possibilities within and without for limiting yourself to only a certain section of the population subjectively labeled as "beautiful".

    FWIW, super models are often childhood rejects. FWIW^2, child stars often grow up very homely. I guess certain features are photogenic during certain times within the human lifespan, eh?

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    irrelevant does seem to be the word for ugliness.. but appearance is one way one creates an image for oneself-- my question is what if the image doens't match the one the ENFj has for his or her partner or someone he or she would date? If you have something to say on the matter, that would be cool. Seems it would be more to argue about with one's way of coming across rather than the fact that she or he is ugly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Kensington View Post
    irrelevant does seem to be the word for ugliness.. but appearance is one way one creates an image for oneself-- my question is what if the image doens't match the one the ENFj has for his or her partner or someone he or she would date? If you have something to say on the matter, that would be cool. Seems it would be more to argue about with one's way of coming across rather than the fact that she or he is ugly.
    That sounds more reasonable than former thoughts.

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    i think they like someone who is confident in how they look, and confident in assessing how others look. generally strong S. which i suppose could transfer over to some attraction to ISFps, who i think would be really tactful with ENFjs regarding their appearance (i believe most people try a little to be tactful with their supervisee.) who aren't typically going to be like, "wtf, thank god you ENFjs spend a ton of time at the gym making your body hot because your personality sure ain't doin' it for me!" i think an ISTp would put a lot more emphasis on finding a mate with a good personality, and i think they'd be willing to forgive some physical flaws for the exchanged Fi.

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    Quote Originally Posted by implied View Post
    i think they like someone who is confident in how they look, and confident in assessing how others look. generally strong S. which i suppose could transfer over to some attraction to ISFps, who i think would be really tactful with ENFjs regarding their appearance (i believe most people try a little to be tactful with their supervisee.) who aren't typically going to be like, "wtf, thank god you ENFjs spend a ton of time at the gym making your body hot because your personality sure ain't doin' it for me!" i think an ISTp would put a lot more emphasis on finding a mate with a good personality, and i think they'd be willing to forgive some physical flaws for the exchanged Fi.
    maybe then this leads to the possible conclusion that its istjs who are preoccupied with looks? you know since istjs probably outnumber enfjs a fair amount most of them will have to settle for non-duals.

    i think some of yourself bled into the isfp enfj gym thing, but whatever. i was attracted to my former boss who was an intp, but the supervise does always come up short to the supervisor, i think. for me, in that case, it was ethically, but not on a romantic level, because it was strictly business.
    Lefty
    ENFJ

    "I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.

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    Your DNA is mine. Mediator Kam's Avatar
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    I'm confused. My ENFj friends dress a hell of a lot better than me

    LSI's don't seem to be preoccupied with looks, they kinda wear whatever they have in the closet. Though if they have enough money, they will wear clothes that fit their sense of style, whatever that might be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kamangir View Post
    I'm confused. My ENFj friends dress a hell of a lot better than me

    LSI's don't seem to be preoccupied with looks, they kinda wear whatever they have in the closet. Though if they have enough money, they will wear clothes that fit their sense of style, whatever that might be.
    it seems like isfps can be somewhat preoccupied with looks. they can be attractive and modern types although sometimes more classical, too. i dunno. isfps are more mental creatures, i think, and that's where everything is really going on and that's what they're looking for. but i think they can be somewhat outwardly avant gaurd if they feel like it or apply themselves. i was watching a little show on fashion and they were talking about john galliano, he desgins for dior now, and they said he really is made for coture and i thought hey maybe he's an isfp designer. his stuff is really out there. there was a competator on project runway last season that i thought was probably an isfp. i think alpha artisans might be prone to fantasy in clothing and dress although some are mainstream, but they have depth running through them and are looking for mental stimulation.
    Lefty
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    "I'm Sick of Old Men Dreaming Up Wars for Young Men To Die In," George McGovern.

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