Enneagram Variants

[UDP]

moonshine
What is yours?


I can't figure out if I am sp or sx first. Definitely not So

sp/sx
These people often have an earthy, mysterious quality to them. They are quietly intense, but to others may seem oblivious to the greater social world around them, instead favoring personal interests. They are slow to commit, but once they do it is with an attitude of life commitment, to the establishment of an impermeable bond. Others can be taken aback by how suddenly and completely this type can lock into them, and by the depth of understanding of the other's condition. They attach to others at an organic, root level, in contrast to the other subvariant's surface formality. Somewhat hesitant to enter new relationships, they instead preserve the select few enduring bonds they carefully form along the way. The sanctuary of home is of paramount concern, and this type takes particular delight in decorating their spaces to reflect their cherished sense of taste and depth. Depth and discrimination characterize this stacking.

Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.

Familiar Roles: the mate, the mystic, the quiet supporter.

My motivation is not that at all, however.

sx/sp
This is perhaps the most internally conflicted of the stackings, and potentially the most inconsistent in behavior. This may occur as a blockage of the sexual instinct which can be redirected as a more generally brooding and troubled personality. They may isolate themselves for long periods of time before reemerging. They live according to a strictly personal outlook and are not particularly concerned with the approval of others outside of their immediate concern. They seem to be searching for something, the missing piece. If they find a soulmate they will unite without fanfare, forming a secret bond, dealing with formalities as an afterthought. Powerful sexual impulses facing inner resistance may manifest symbolically in the psyche, giving way to soulful interpretations of the unconscious. Under periods of stress severe sexual tensions may manifest as erratic, impulsively destructive behavior. Can seem restless, torn between the comforts of a stable home life and the urge to wander. May be prone to self-medicating.
Motivation: to know the heart, reconcile inner conflict, form a secure union.

Familiar roles: the devotee, the seeker, the wanderer

[aestrivex]

i'm not sure whether my variant would be sp/sx or sp/so. i also don't know if and why enneagram variants are even slightly important.

[anndelise]

UDP, what about if you used these definitions? Would it help or change anything?

(from http://www.eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/variants.php ...the only site that's made any sense to me Enneagram-wise)

Instinctual variants
The instinctual variants of the enneagram, the self-preservation, sexual and social instincts.

In addition to the Enneagram type, people are also considered to be one of three instinctual variants (also called subtypes). The self-preservation instinct (dealing with oneself), the sexual (dealing with another person) and the social instinct (dealing with a group) can be most pronounced.

Self-preservation variant
People of the self-preservation variant are generally trying to be comfortable and independent. Their well-being is very important to them, so they pay much attention to their health, house and financial position. They are less interested in interpersonal contact, and are typically less spontaneous and don't show as much emotion as people of the other two subtypes of their enneagram type.

Sexual variant
People of the sexual variant are very much interested in one to one contacts. They are looking for intimacy and this may show in sexuality, though not necessarily. Being in a relationship is very important to them. They are the most passionate of the subtypes, being temperamental and having more energy. They have less of a problem with getting into a fight and care less about rules and responsibility.

Social Variant
People of the social variant prefer to be in groups or teams. They are more interested than the other subtypes in the position that they and others have in a group, and are consequently concerned with status. Wanting to be accepted, they try to fit in and be nice.

[UDP]

No, that makes it even less clear.

I would say yes to each one of those.

Show less emotion, am very interested in intimacy and one-on-one relations, and am concerned about status (as in leadership)

[anndelise]

ah, ok, sorry to muddle it further

[UDP]

No worries.

[machintruc]

Motivation: to live in a secure, comfortable environment where they can pursue their private interests in depth.

My motivation is not that at all, however.

This is pretty -like to me. Are you sure you're LSE ?

[UDP]

Ok, I see your point.

What I didn't like about it was the interpretation that my main goal in life was isolation, basically. That is to say, just being in your own little world and not caring about anything else.
From a broader perspective, yeah, I do want a nice peaceful home, homebase, and intimate relationship as well (possibly family in the distant future). My private interest would just be something more than reading the newspaper on the back deck.

So basically, what I don't like about it is that it seems to imply that I would not want a job or occupation that has a very wide scope or range. Like, I would never get into politics or international business, or united nations etc. But really, such things are not incompatible.

[Ezra]

moonshine
What is yours?


I can't figure out if I am sp or sx first.

Join the club.

I'm probably sp/sx.

Read these two descriptions, UDP. You're looking at general descriptions instead of specific ones related to your type.

Self-pres/Sexual

This subtype is more fiery and impulsive. They still have the "no nonsense" approach to life, along with the "can do" attitude, but they exhibit more outward energy. Because the self-preservational instinct and the sexual instinct are in conflict, the one pulling in and the other pushing forward, they often have more of an on-off quality to them. But you will know where you stand with a self-pres/sexual Eight. Although their outward energy is in contrast to their inward self-pres energy, they have a very focused attitude in the areas of life in which the two energies coincide, such as the realm of family and close friendship, those things they are really passionate about. Their control over their intimate life will be noticeable. With the social instinct last in the instinctual stacking, this subtype can be blunt and confrontational with people who aren't in their inner circle.

The self-pres/sexual Eight feels very independent. They feel as though they need no one outside of the few people they are close to. On the down side, they have a tendendcy to distrust people and tend to challenge them to see where they stand. When healthier, they realize there is sometimes a greater strength in adopting a softer approach.

Sexual/Self-pres

This subtype is a very charismatic. They have a very assertive energy and they demand attention. The lust of the Eight combines with the sexual instinct to make one of the most fiery of the combinations of all of the enneatypes, especially if Seven is the dominant wing. Sexual/self-pres Eights aren’t afraid to tell you what they think. The "can do" attitude that the other subtypes have is now intertwined with an outward passionate storm of energy. The sexual/self-pres Eight will be similar to the self-pres/sex Eight with respect to interests and attachment to close friends and family, but the intensity level is augmented. Since the sexual instinct is first, these Eights usually don't let an opportunity pass by to connect with those they find interesting. They can sense the power in any situation and they like to challenge people. They can enjoy making others react to them, keeping others on their toes, to find out what makes them tick. They are likely to use humor to accomplish this. When sex/self-pres Eights are unbalanced, they are very quick to anger and have a difficult time controlling their impulses.

[UDP]

Ezra, I have already seen those (it is the same site after all). From there I would say sp/sx

[Ezra]

You're the same as me.

Also, do you really not want to live in a secure, comfortable environment? I love this kind of shit - this is why I am sp-first. It's the time I use my Si to a great extent; in private.

[misutii]

I've noticed that some socionics extroverts seem to not have the stereotypical "social" drive, so prefer to have a few close friends and hang out one-to-one rather than involving themselves with larger groups. I think these extroverts are sp/sx-sx/sp (lacking the social variant)

[UDP]

I've noticed that some socionics extroverts seem to not have the stereotypical "social" drive, so prefer to have a few close friends and hang out one-to-one rather than involving themselves with larger groups. I think these extroverts are sp/sx-sx/sp (lacking the social variant)

Good call.

These are (may be?) the types that are more inclined to be at home, banging their significant other on the couch or down on the floor, in their comfortable home, rather than out partying and getting into too much hoopla. (For example).


What you said may also be related to Fi>Fe, but, perhaps not.

[FDG]

UDP take into account that - imho - these descriptions are written by sx-first so-last people. Thus, they are all skewed towards making sx's appear much better than so's.

[UDP]

Ok... so what bearing do you think that should have on my type? I am not sure what the point of your comment is, if it is anything more than stating your thoughts on a bias.

[FDG]

That you shouldn't discount social first stackings on the basis of those descriptions.

[Ezra]

I've noticed that some socionics extroverts seem to not have the stereotypical "social" drive, so prefer to have a few close friends and hang out one-to-one rather than involving themselves with larger groups. I think these extroverts are sp/sx-sx/sp (lacking the social variant)

You got it.

Social 8s are wicked. The Col in Apocalypse Now is one. They are the party-starters, the players, the 7-lookalikes. They have a good time and then some.

[UDP]

Maximus from Gladiator a good example of 8w9?

[Ezra]

I think so yes. I think Russell Crowe is probably an 8w7, but he could well be an 8w9. In LA Confidential, he's an 8w9 who I thought was an 8w7, but then saw the other perspective. He's pretty gentle for an 8w7, so 8w9 would make more sense.

We also had a conversation about his being an LSE a while ago (can I say that some of my points are very uninformed, so ignore them). It was suggested that he's an LSE, but because Russell Crowe is an SLE, it gives Maximus a kind of weird blend of valuing Se, Te, Ti and Si. I personally can see the LSE nature in his willingness to lay down his life for the emperor. It reminds me of the Space Marines' doctrine in Warhammer 40k. It's the whole idea of doing what must be done without question. Perfect military material. However, the way he leads his men on the battlefield is reminiscent of Alexander the Great's speech and charge at the battle of Guagamela in Oliver Stone's Alexander. He's a big fat SLE. He clearly is adept it Se, and his holding Roman values (although he doesn't place that much emphasis on them) is all about Ti.

[UDP]

It reminds me of the Space Marines' doctrine in Warhammer 40k. It's the whole idea of doing what must be done without question. Perfect military material.

That's not 8 though. That would be more E1 perhaps

Maximus valued the Emperors friendship, as a person. Not as some position.

[Ezra]

It reminds me of the Space Marines' doctrine in Warhammer 40k. It's the whole idea of doing what must be done without question. Perfect military material.

That's not 8 though. That would be more E1 perhaps

Maximus valued the Emperors friendship, as a person. Not as some position.

Bullshit. He was serving. It had nothing to do with friendship.

In fact, no, I think Maximus is not an 8. He is a 1. A 1w9.

[Ezra]

Right, I've decided once and for all. 8s can't be LSEs.

[UDP]

Then why didn't he serve the new emperor?

Obviously the former emperor was a much better ruler.

[Ezra]

Then why didn't he serve the new emperor?

Because he was a dishonourable bastard. Maximus doesn't play dirty - the new emperor does. Clash of values.

Obviously the former emperor was a much better ruler.

Yep. Maximus' dual.

[UDP]

Right, I've decided once and for all. 8s can't be LSEs.

Ezra, it doesn't matter what you think or decide. I don't know why you say things like that.

BS.


Not to comment on your type, but it is like the LSI I know saying, "Well I don't think it should be that way!!" - like it makes a damn bit of difference,

[Ezra]

Of course it makes a difference. Because I have total faith in my judgment, I recognise what is correct and what is incorrect. A world in my hands would be fair, because I know what is right and what is wrong.

[UDP]

Your judgment has changed multiple times.

And, this is enneagram. I find it hard to believe you can make a direct correlation to socionics, anything other than likeliness or tendencies.

[Ezra]

No, not my judgment. My ideas. I've learned more, hence my ideas change. To pull a you, the best way I can put it has already been done:

The individual easily generates logical systems and formulations to explain a set of phenomena that he has experienced or studied. However, these logical systems or explanations are not viewed as permanent or all-encompassing, but can be improved upon or even discarded as new experience and information is added.

The SLE cares deeply about the systems he accepts and will defend them with no regard for the feelings of others. He will not likely allow himself to look foolish in his defense, but, often he will not have developed the language system well enough to explain the logic systems simply or correctly.

[Christy B]

I do not think they will shift to the point of changing, but maybe you have more emphasis on each in certain situations, though ultimatly the stacking stays the same.

Also:

I have heard that instinctual variants play a major role in how well people get along, each type will interact with each other one differently and that you have one that is sort of like your dual in Socionics. I heard this from the guy who introduced me to Enneagram.

Types that supposedly get along best are:

sx/sp and so/sp
sx/so and sp/so
so/sx and sp/sx

Has anyone heard this? I cannot find this on the internet anywhere and wonder where this guy got it from. (I can't ask him because we do not speak anymore.)

[hellothere]

If anything (big if), I am an sp/so 4

[Ezra]

I think variant can change, but it isn't likely. If someone's life goal is to get rich (sp thing), are they going to suddenly be deeply interested in romantic relationships and the workings of them, so that they are adept in understanding the chemisty (sx)?

[UDP]

Do you think variants (variant orderings) may shift over time, or over the course of a person's life?