Gamma vs Alpha, a Declaration of War

[crazedrat]

So I think we should go to war with alpha, writing insulting type descriptions like the one mach wrote in their forums and generally causing havoc over there. I'm writing an ESE description now. One of you ESFps should write a LII description. One of you ENTjs should write an ISFp description.

[Expat]

That's fine, but not in the context of any "war".

I don't think that SEE description was good, even as a negative caricature.

[Phaedrus]

I like offensive type descriptions, especially those of ILIs. By focusing on the most negative traits of each type, it is often easier to type someone correctly. So, I support the idea of writing insulting type descriptions -- the more the better -- but I don't see it as a war either. Instead I think they are excellent in helping us to reach a more accurate understanding of the types. By stressing the extreme ends of each type, we will be able to see what's in the middle more clearly.

[liveandletlive]

as much as i do enjoy war and as fun as that would be, we should make peace instead... i think... if u really wanted to start chaos over there u shud have pmed all gammas and made it a sneak attack

[snegledmaca]

No gamma, but seriously, why give the time of day? Isn't that precisely the purpose of writing such crap, to entice the other person?

[liveandletlive]

No gamma, but seriously, why give the time of day? Isn't that precisely the purpose of writing such crap, to entice the other person?

you're right... it's going to end up being annoying with all of their posts in our quadra and vice-versa...

p.s. when would an IEI advocate war? just curious...

[Expat]

p.s. when would an IEI advocate war? just curious...

When the IEI thinks that the SLE dual will win but is hesitating for some reason.

[liveandletlive]

p.s. when would an IEI advocate war? just curious...

When the IEI thinks that the SLE dual will win but is hesitating for some reason.

nice explanation i <3

[discojoe]

So I think we should go to war with alpha, writing insulting type descriptions like the one mach wrote in their forums and generally causing havoc over there. I'm writing an ESE description now. One of you ESFps should write a LII description. One of you ENTjs should write an ISFp description.

nah

[Suomea]

..............................bring it.

[Suomea]

haha....just kidding

[Logos]

So I think we should go to war with alpha, writing insulting type descriptions like the one mach wrote in their forums and generally causing havoc over there. I'm writing an ESE description now. One of you ESFps should write a LII description. One of you ENTjs should write an ISFp description.

If you are actually going to give this sort of tit-for-tat response the time of day, why not just write an insulting description of Machintruc? I do not know why you took the description so personally. Yes, a member of Gamma quadra was "insulted," but at least you get the small amount of negative reassurance of being able to call Alpha quadra a bunch of idiots, whereas those of us of Alpha quadra have the unfortunate inability to rid ourselves of the tarnish to our Quadra caused by Machintruc like a tick latched onto that one impossible to reach spot on your back.

[Blaze]

*holds up peace sign* hey man don't wage war....make love not war lol it's more fun. ferget machintruc.....he's on the fringe anyway.....

[drd252]

signed; break out the big guns! Alpha's goin' down!!!!!!!!

[liveandletlive]

So I think we should go to war with alpha, writing insulting type descriptions like the one mach wrote in their forums and generally causing havoc over there. I'm writing an ESE description now. One of you ESFps should write a LII description. One of you ENTjs should write an ISFp description.

If you are actually going to give this sort of tit-for-tat response the time of day, why not just write an insulting description of Machintruc? I do not know why you took the description so personally. Yes, a member of Gamma quadra was "insulted," but at least you get the small amount of negative reassurance of being able to call Alpha quadra a bunch of idiots, whereas those of us of Alpha quadra have the unfortunate inability to rid ourselves of the tarnish to our Quadra caused by Machintruc like a tick latched onto that one impossible to reach spot on your back.

who was insulted? it seems to me unless it was a SEE they can't really say that they were truly insulted...

[Logos]

So I think we should go to war with alpha, writing insulting type descriptions like the one mach wrote in their forums and generally causing havoc over there. I'm writing an ESE description now. One of you ESFps should write a LII description. One of you ENTjs should write an ISFp description.

If you are actually going to give this sort of tit-for-tat response the time of day, why not just write an insulting description of Machintruc? I do not know why you took the description so personally. Yes, a member of Gamma quadra was "insulted," but at least you get the small amount of negative reassurance of being able to call Alpha quadra a bunch of idiots, whereas those of us of Alpha quadra have the unfortunate inability to rid ourselves of the tarnish to our Quadra caused by Machintruc like a tick latched onto that one impossible to reach spot on your back.

who was insulted? it seems to me unless it was a SEE they can't really say that they were truly insulted...

Well from the sound of it, crazedrat was.

[snegledmaca]

No gamma, but seriously, why give the time of day? Isn't that precisely the purpose of writing such crap, to entice the other person?

you're right... it's going to end up being annoying with all of their posts in our quadra and vice-versa...

p.s. when would an IEI advocate war? just curious...

Oh no, never. Well, not until the battle "is over before it even started". Or in other words, after every single course of action has been covered. I'm a "no retaliation" kind of guy. I plan my "advance" long before I ever execute it and when I do it comes quickly and without option. Everything would be over before you even knew what hit you. Those are the conditions under which I would declare "war", when there really is no fight. I know this because this is how I play the computer game "civilization" or any other strategy game. My strategy is in essence to amass my strength and hide it at the same time. When I fight (That is, when I decide to fight on my own, not pressured by anything) I necessarily do an overkill. *Nothing* is left to chance. But the draw back of this strategy is that it takes a long time to amass the "potential", it requires a long period of stability and peace, of building infrastructure, raising production/building capabilities through the roof, development.

[crazedrat]

im not insulted, i think this is a good opportunity to unleash the dark side of our natures and see the true faces of others. what this would represent, would be the war of all wars. the socio-war. isn't it exciting?

[liveandletlive]

we don't get mad unless it's for personal reasons... we're not the politically correct quadra ( )

[Logos]

we don't get mad unless it's for personal reasons... we're not the politically correct quadra ( )

Er?

[liveandletlive]

we don't get insulted by things that don't involve us as much as you guys with

[Ezra]

Make peace, children, as you share fuck all in common. This can only be a good thing i.e. for learning potential.

[Logos]

we don't get insulted by things that don't involve us as much as you guys with

Fe is PC?

[Blaze]

we don't get insulted by things that don't involve us as much as you guys with

Fe is PC?

how is Fe PC?

[discojoe]

Being PC is important if you need to not offend certain people. Otherwise, fuck it.

[Logos]

But it is not particularly hard to think of reasons why either Gamma or Alpha would hate political correctness, which is probably tied in some ways to the Democratic dichotomy. For example, an ENTp may be incredibly un-PC if the reaction would garner their -HA or the INTj who wants to break out of their role.

[liveandletlive]

sry i guess the whole PC convo died down... i just wanted to go into more detail about what i meant...

The reason why I felt as if "PCness" was related to / is because of the nature of PC- being considerate of other people's feelings, weaknesses, etc. and at the same time still retaining their accurate, true description (i.e. instead of calling people short, calling them "vertically challenged).

I understand what Logos is saying about IEEs and how they can seem PC too and I agree but I feel as if their "PCness" often shows when their own morals are being threatened. Their "PCness" comes from a vested self-interest somehow.

Now, Alpha SFs i think we could all agree that they show obvious PC behaviors. IMO and IME, Alpha NTs are very polite and non-obtrusive. They also tend to jump in and correct someone if they're not accurate or correct in something they're saying. To me, these are all PC-like behaviors.

Gammas are just ridiculous- the more someone deviates from societal norms, the better.

[Logos]

sry i guess the whole PC convo died down... i just wanted to go into more detail about what i meant...

The reason why I felt as if "PCness" was related to / is because of the nature of PC- being considerate of other people's feelings, weaknesses, etc. and at the same time still retaining their accurate, true description (i.e. instead of calling people short, calling them "vertically challenged).

I am not so sure about that. While there is definitely a concern for a positive atmosphere with Alpha quadra ( block with ), I doubt that political correctness necessarily stems from /. For example what if political correctness comes in part from trying to correct the accuracy of the information being conveyed in the terminology () and whose usage of said terminology could lead to a disruption in the connections that exist between people ()? Furthermore, it is always possible that the PC terminology could very well offend the / person if the PC terminology seems so arbitrarily stupid and can think up numerous counter-arguments as to why such PC terms are pointless. And do you think that an LII or ILE is going to do something if it does not make sense to them in terms of ? Doubtful.

Now, Alpha SFs i think we could all agree that they show obvious PC behaviors.

Such broad strokes are always debatable, especially where the proof is most likely based upon hearsay.

IMO and IME, Alpha NTs are very polite and non-obtrusive.

Read below from the LII's Fi section of WikiSocion:

The LII is acutely aware of social conventions, such as saying "please" and "thank you", and expends much effort to conform to these rules to maintain the image of a "nice" person. But even so, he tends to step on other people's toes, so to speak, and prefers an environment where such rules don't exist in the first place. Especially when in a heated argument, an LII can alienate others by his natural tendency to hold and defend strong opinions (Ti). Sensitivity is not the LII's strong suit, but he can use it when necessary, if careful attention is paid.

You are correct to an extent, but while it may seem like LIIs are polite (in the interest of -protection), it is rather forced and something that LIIs would prefer to remove with entirely as it expends their energy to do so. So behind close doors, it is the Alpha NT who mocks the societal conventions. Alpha NTs can also be rather harshly blunt jerks if were to put our minds to it with little regard to .

They also tend to jump in and correct someone if they're not accurate or correct in something they're saying. To me, these are all PC-like behaviors.

That actually sounds far more like a Gamma NT with constructivism and -valuing.

Gammas are just ridiculous- the more someone deviates from societal norms, the better.

Are you sure about that? Those societal norms are what and attach themselves to as a means of advancement. And it can hardly be denied that -valuing favors a certain element of idiosyncrasy. And add that with a function with no grip on reality, like (or so Alpha has been told), and you got yourself an award-winning playhouse...er, quadra of weirdness and craziness.

[FDG]

Logos is actually correct regarding social norms, insofar as it isn't controlled for other parameters: an extraverted-positivist , ceteris paribus, would be less likely to regard social norms as an useful concept as opposed to an introverted-negativist; thus an ESFp might be unwilling to categorize herself into the set of those abiding to social norms, whereas an ISFj might do so with complete willingness. If we accept that there's cardinality in such concept, we might assign similar values of social conformism to ESFps and INTjs, given all that has been said above

[Expat]

For what it's worth, from my personal observations it seems that Betas and Deltas are most often concerned with PC-talk.

Before you say it -- I'm not saying that all Betas and Deltas like PC talk; merely that among the people who are concerned with it, it seems to me that most of them are Betas and Deltas.

I have some ideas as to why that should be the case but they are still half-baked.

[Logos]

For what it's worth, from my personal observations it seems that Betas and Deltas are most often concerned with PC-talk.

Before you say it -- I'm not saying that all Betas and Deltas like PC talk; merely that among the people who are concerned with it, it seems to me that most of them are Betas and Deltas.

I have some ideas as to why that should be the case but they are still half-baked.

I'm definitely willing to hear any idea, half-baked or not, especially when we may be agreeing here.

But it is not particularly hard to think of reasons why either Gamma or Alpha would hate political correctness, which is probably tied in some ways to the Democratic dichotomy.

[Expat]

Well, I am also thinking in terms of Aristocracy, but going like this.

In the case of PC Betas, it seems that they have an image of a group (that is, a minority) having a sort of "collective dignity", so that if you say something non-PC, even if aimed at only one member of the (supposed or real) group or "community", they see it as an "attack" on the whole group.

In the case of PC Deltas, I think they go more like, "oh he has said something "insensitive" about that person A, don't you think that other persons who easily identify with person A (by virtue of belonging to the same group) will be hurt, too?"

I observed this most often in South Africa, where there was (and probably still is) a lot of discussion on what terms are PC or not, and even then (before I knew socionics) it seemed to me that the pro-PC arguments in the debates had these somewhat different reasonings.

[lefty]

..............................bring it.

Bringing it Gamma Style:







Vs. Bringing it Alpha Style:






Ironically it may have been created to combat a Gamma, but now that Gammas are making unethical bids for power around the world again:






[img]http://galizacig.org/imxact/2005/05/******_bush.jpg[/img]





which leads to:

haha....just kidding

And if you dare challenge that then they can bring in the Deltas who'll say:




You know and as a Beta I think....


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