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Thread: Which Type's Ethos Do You Strive For?

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    ...been here longer than the fucking monarchy Ezra's Avatar
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    Default Which Type's Ethos Do You Strive For?

    Your own, or another type's?

    Use this resource if you want to know the types' styles.

    Personally, I aim for a mixture of the SLI's and the LSE's. It doesn't always follow that I do this; I play too many games too excessively to be either balanced or productive, two words which characterise the aims of the SLI and the LSE respectively. Nonetheless, in life, I strive, for the most part, to do things that are productive. And I do this with a level of harmony.
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Definitely LII. And somewhat LSI and LIE.

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    ESE, SLI
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    im a little bitter about SEE's type message
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    LIE, but I proposed that description to Rick.

    ILI fits me as well.

    I don't quite agree with all of them -- not sure about SEE, I can see why liveandletlive doesn't like it. Perhaps "always making new, close friends" would be better?
    , LIE, ENTj logical subtype, 8w9 sx/sp
    Quote Originally Posted by implied
    gah you're like the shittiest ENTj ever!

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    These are the ones that apply:

    SLE - Challenging the current order and expanding influence.
    IEI - Creating meaning in the events of life around you. (maybe)
    SEE - Making an impression on people and holding their attention. (but seriously, what 26 year old female in a room full of middle age guys doesn't get and hold people's attention?)
    ILI - Recognizing underlying processes and deriving benefit from them.
    LIE - Achieving beneficial efficiency in all areas of life.
    IEE - Expanding your horizons and helping people develop.


    I dislike this concept, btw.
    SEE-Se, 852 sx/so

    Check out my Socionics group! https://www.facebook.com/groups/1546362349012193/

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    SEI - Deriving enjoyment from all your actions and interactions.
    ESE - Turning life into an enjoyable, beautiful experience.
    IEI - Creating meaning in the events of life around you.
    SLI - Balanced, harmonious living and temperance.
    It would seem I have a very "sensory" secondary drive. My main problem, as I see it, is that "meaningful" events aren't always enjoyable, nor harmonious. There's rather a gaping inner conflict there at times.

    Sometimes, I even think them incompatible.
    socio: INFp - IEI
    ennea: 4w5 sp/sx

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    Let's fly now Gilly's Avatar
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    A mixture of SLI, SLE, and the Alpha SFs. All of the intuitive ones sound pretentious or nerdy.

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    IEE - Expanding your horizons and helping people develop. (In fact, the concept that people wouldn't want to expand their horizons nor to develop as a person is an alien concept to me…how could they NOT want to??)

    All these others are merely ways of doing this. For example:
    • ILE - searching the unknown as a way of expanding my horizons; spreading knowledge to an individual as a way of helping an individual develop in that desired area.
    • SLI - balanced, harmonious living and temperance as a way of developing and balancing the self so that more energy can be used for one's goals rather than just to survive.
    • EII - being exemplary in my own values (as in striving to meet my own ideals of how I feel I should be); instilling ideal values only in the sense of finding out the other person's ideal values and helping them to meet those
    • Others that fit in similar fashion as the above: EIE , IEI, SEI, ESI, ILI, LIE, LSE

    Ones that didn't fit at all for me: SEE, ESE, SLE, LII, LSI
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    I guess I like IEE best.
    It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
    -Mark Twain


    You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    LIE, but I proposed that description to Rick.

    ILI fits me as well.

    I don't quite agree with all of them -- not sure about SEE, I can see why liveandletlive doesn't like it. Perhaps "always making new, close friends" would be better?
    hmmm i guess... i think that's understating SEE's social power though... maybe something relating to that...
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    Quote Originally Posted by liveandletlive
    Quote Originally Posted by Expat
    LIE, but I proposed that description to Rick.

    ILI fits me as well.

    I don't quite agree with all of them -- not sure about SEE, I can see why liveandletlive doesn't like it. Perhaps "always making new, close friends" would be better?
    hmmm i guess... i think that's understating SEE's social power though... maybe something relating to that...
    B cuz I r teh queenz0r!

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    ILE, LII, and ILI. Basically it is what NTs (Keirsey's Rationals) typically strive for. The last couple of years I have become more and more aware of the fact that the ILI "force" is strong in me, which has led me to an even deeper interest than before in game theory, probabilities, calculated risk-taking, forecastings, etc.

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    obviously, i definitely feel the SLE approach. i'm also leaning towards SEE at the moment; it is especially needed in the rough business i've decided to devote my life to (cinema). making an impression comes naturally. challenging the natural order of things or my expanding so-called my influence requires a bit more effort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    In fact, the concept that people wouldn't want to expand their horizons
    some types more so than others. i have no opinion on your creative function, but right now i think this is a good validation of Ne base and Ni ignoring.

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    nor to develop as a person is an alien concept to me…how could they NOT want to??
    i agree with you on this problem. you have to consider the context somewhat. "as a person" might be better replaced with something else more obviously delta NF.
    [/quote]
    if merely stating "helping people to develop", then there is a conflict between helping them develop the way *I* (general usage) believe they should develop vs the way *they* believe they should develop. The latter is more personal and what I was trying to point to when using the phrase "as a person".
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    i think i understand that. i was just suggesting that it be redefined even more specifically. didn't you agree it could apply to more than just one type?

    Quote Originally Posted by anndelise
    All these others are merely ways of doing this.
    ah, i apologize, i had meant that those others were ways for ME to do this.

    I was sorting it out over which one fit me better to which ones were nowhere near me.
    and as i was sorting, that middle list just kept being reinterpreted in my head based on how it led to doing the first
    so that, in a sense, i was listing which ones i identified with, but trying to clarify how it was that I identified with them (because they each led to my doing the ultimate one)

    like some people just listed a few, i was just trying to qualify my similar response

    sorry for my misphrasing
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    which begs the question, why not post my own choices? i still run into problems fitting my own interests to quadra values. in the vein of what i asked Phaedrus. also reminds me of the problem with that John Locke typing on Alpha.. (digress, digress)
    how about saying "screw fitting your interests into quadra values" and just sort which ones stand out as most...you (ignoring the type portion attached) ?
    (a relatively easy way of sorting is the "if you could have/do A but not B ...or... B but not A, which would you pick?")
    IEE 649 sx/sp cp

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    -SEI
    -ILE

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    ILE and SLE.

    ILE

    those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifmd95
    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    The last couple of years I have become more and more aware of the fact that the ILI "force" is strong in me, which has led me to an even deeper interest than before in game theory, probabilities, calculated risk-taking, forecastings, etc.
    i am curious why you associate these interests with gamma NT. really curious because they may become my home turf academically. i would have figured they might instead be associated with Ti, depending upon if and how you apply them.
    In Socionics they are associated with and are typically seen as the areas in which ILIs are in their "element". Read Sergei Ganin's article "INTj or INTp?" for a comparison: http://www.socionics.com/articles/intjorintp.htm

    I think ILIs have a natural advantage when it comes to objectively estimating risks, statistical probabilities, etc. without being influenced as much by emotions and other irrelevant factors as most people are. Also notice that in the mentioned areas dynamics is an important factor. A very likely ILI who has used his natural advantages to his own benefit is the poker player and theorist David Sklansky:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Sklansky
    http://www.pokerlistings.com/poker-p...david-sklansky

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    SEI --enjoyment (but it's not enough)
    and
    IEI --meaning (but it can be frustrating)
    and the two don't always fit together.

    Maybe I bounce back and forth and try to make them fit when I can.

    (maybe I'm Fe subtype?? ugh, who knows)
    IEI-Fe 4w3

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    ILI and LIE, and maybe ESI.
    PoLR
    Suggestive Function

    Regular Double-shot Espresso Subtype

    Just because I'm a thinking type doesn't mean I'm not an idiot.

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    some of these five-word long descriptions sort of work, but many of them do not at all.

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    EIE - Riveting attention and energy to meaningful causes.
    IEE - Expanding your horizons and helping people develop.
    EII - Being exemplary and instilling ideal values.
    EII

    I'll tell you what
    there is plenty wrong with me
    but I fixed up a few old buildings
    and I've planted a few trees.

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    I identified with the EII, ILI, and IEE descriptions. I also liked the SLI one a lot, but that's more of something I wish I could do than that I can.
    Moonlight will fall
    Winter will end
    Harvest will come
    Your heart will mend

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    By the way, I've just changed the SEE message to "Acquiring social territory and influencing people."
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kioshi
    IEI and SLI

    I think ESE and LIE are implied. Using the concept of positive and negative spaces from another thread:

    Negative Space:
    IEI: Creating meaning in the events of life around you
    SLI: Balanced, harmonious living and temperance

    Positive Space:
    ESE: Turning life into an enjoyable experience
    LIE: Achieving beneficial efficiency in all areas of life
    Notice how those all pertain to the same supervision ring.
    Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit

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    Actually, I identify with several of these descriptions. However, these I would not:
    ESE - Turning life into an enjoyable, beautiful experience.
    SEI - Deriving enjoyment from all your actions and interactions.
    SLE - Challenging the current order and expanding influence.
    SEE - Acquiring social territory and influencing people.
    SLI - Balanced, harmonious living and temperance.
    ESI - Recognizing and balancing people's needs and expectations.
    This is because I prefer to have what I would consider a more 'noble purpose' to my life than enjoying life and acquiring social territory, which seem more hedonistic/materialistic. Instead, I focus on spirituality and becoming a better person. However, I would also agree that having a 'noble purpose' to your life makes you more joyful.


    For the ones I identified with the most, I would say:
    LIE - Achieving beneficial efficiency in all areas of life.
    LSE - Managing worthwhile, productive, and wholesome activities.
    EII - Being exemplary and instilling ideal values.
    LSE and EII together speak to me of a complete person - one who is balanced. He/she has high morals, an open heart, wisdom, strength and compassion. LIE seems to speak of the same thing but with a different slant on it.


    For the ones I partially agreed on:
    IEE - Expanding your horizons and helping people develop.
    ILE - Searching for the unknown and spreading knowledge.
    LII - Structuring reality and creating correct systems of thought.
    LSI - Establishing and overseeing correct structures and systems.
    EIE - Riveting attention and energy to meaningful causes.
    IEI - Creating meaning in the events of life around you.
    ILI - Recognizing underlying processes and deriving benefit from them.
    These speak to me because they are about finding Truth (for me, this is spiritual truth) and deriving benefit from knowing and applying this Truth - as in ILE, LII, LSI and ILI. You then apply yourself fully to this Truth (EIE, IEE) and having meaning in your life (IEI). However, you do not create this meaning - the meaning in your life is objective. And, finally, I see this search for Truth and apply it as being bound up in LSE and EII type messages.

    Please feel free to comment
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Five
    These speak to me because they are about finding Truth (for me, this is spiritual truth) and deriving benefit from knowing and applying this Truth - as in ILE, LII, LSI and ILI.
    What do you mean by the expression "spiritual truth"? What is the difference between "a spiritual truth" and just "a truth"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    What do you mean by the expression "spiritual truth"?
    Let you know when I get there :wink:

    But seriously, I feel puzzled by your question. I have a sense of 'spiritual truth' being out there, but to put it into words is difficult. I suppose the best answer I can come up with is "God" and becoming a particular kind of person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phaedrus
    What is the difference between "a spiritual truth" and just "a truth"?
    Again, I'm not too sure, but, for the sake of intellectual satisfaction, I guess I'd say that "a truth" can be physical or spiritual.

    In that case, a physical truth is a truth about the physical world; a spiritual truth is a truth about the spiritual world.

    An example of a physical truth might be "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction"; for a spiritual truth, you might say that "God is omnipresent", "The mind is the Buddha", "Tao called Tao is not Tao" - to quote from the Abhrahamic religions, Buddhism and Taoism respectively. However, I would say that, if we accept, for example, these religions, there is a link between physical truths and spiritual truths - if God is omnipresent and the Creator, then he created the physical truth of "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction".

    Of course, both "a spiritual truth" and just "a truth" are the same in the sense that they are both true :wink:

    The reason why I wrote "spiritual truth" was to draw attention to the fact that I do not necessarily wish to become someone who leads a good life here and now; I also want to have a connection to God in addition to leading a happy and meaningful life. However, as I hinted here ...

    Quote Originally Posted by I
    And, finally, I see this search for Truth and apply it as being bound up in LSE and EII type messages.
    ... I see spiritual progress as helping you to lead a happy, rewarding and meaningful life here and now.

    And now, I'm off to engage in "worthwhile, productive, and wholesome activities"
    Five/Tanzhe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    By the way, I've just changed the SEE message to "Acquiring social territory and influencing people."
    thank u! sry for being annoying about this!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    By the way, I've just changed the SEE message to "Acquiring social territory and influencing people."
    How does that differ from the SLE message?
    Ideas don't determine who's right. Power determines who's right. And I have the power. So I'm right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ezra
    Quote Originally Posted by Rick
    By the way, I've just changed the SEE message to "Acquiring social territory and influencing people."
    How does that differ from the SLE message?
    The SLE is less interested in social territory and more interested in organizational territory or, commonly, just playing around with people and systems "for fun". If they aspire to influence things, it's mostly about establishing some kind of organization or system and not a social network of which they are the center.

    thank u! sry for being annoying about this!
    No problem. Thank you for showing that it needed to be improved. I wasn't satisfied with it as it was.
    It is easier for the eye of a camel to pass through a rich man than for a needle to enter the kingdom of heaven.

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    IEI - Creating meaning in the events of life around you. (or simply finding the meaning that is already there…)

    Others I can somewhat relate to:
    ILE - Searching for the unknown and spreading knowledge. (only the searching for the unknown part)
    ILI - Recognizing underlying processes and deriving benefit from them. (sort of, but it’s too dry.)
    IEE - Expanding your horizons and helping people develop. (I like this one, but it’s not what I do.)

    EIE - Riveting attention and energy to meaningful causes. (this would be exhausting ;-) )

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    LII - Structuring reality and creating correct systems of thought. - I can't shut this one off even if I wanted to.
    ILI - Recognizing underlying processes and deriving benefit from them. - When I'm feeling pressured.
    ILE - Searching for the unknown and spreading knowledge. - When I'm bored.

    I identify with many of the others, just not to a great degree.
    "To become is just like falling asleep. You never know exactly when it happens, the transition, the magic, and you think, if you could only recall that exact moment of crossing the line then you would understand everything; you would see it all"

    "Angels dancing on the head of a pin dissolve into nothingness at the bedside of a dying child."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joy
    SEE - Making an impression on people and holding their attention. (but seriously, what 26 year old female in a room full of middle age guys doesn't get and hold people's attention?)
    an LII one

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    LII - Structuring reality and creating correct systems of thought.
    SLI - Balanced, harmonious living and temperance.
    SLE - Challenging the current order and expanding influence.

    LSI - Establishing and overseeing correct structures and systems.

    IEI - Creating meaning in the events of life around you.
    ILE - Searching for the unknown and spreading knowledge.
    ILI - Recognizing underlying processes and deriving benefit from them.
    EII - Being exemplary and instilling ideal values.


    first three fit me best in terms of values

  38. #38

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    ILI - Recognizing underlying processes and deriving benefit from them.

    And partially:
    ILE - Searching for the unknown and spreading knowledge.
    SLE - Challenging the current order and expanding influence.
    ...the human race will disappear. Other races will appear and disappear in turn. The sky will become icy and void, pierced by the feeble light of half-dead stars. Which will also disappear. Everything will disappear. And what human beings do is just as free of sense as the free motion of elementary particles. Good, evil, morality, feelings? Pure 'Victorian fictions'.

    INTp

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    ^It's odd... I put credence in people's self-typings, really I do... but are you sure you're not SLE? I'm sure you would have thought about it... but anyway.

  40. #40
    liveandletlive's Avatar
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    can't you make the argument that you strive for your dual's ethos?
    ESFp-Fi sub
    6w7 sx/so/sp

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