Delta perceptions of "childlike" and "caring" types
What are your perceptions? Though I love caregivers, they have this way of making me dependent on them which I really hate. They can make you feel as if you cannot take care of yourself (which is not true), and that they have to know everything that goes on in your life (at least I get this from the EJs). What makes this annoying is that if you do something out of the ordinary just for that reason, they act like you are doing something suspicious and you need to tell them a good answer...
It's not my fault we're awesome.
And besides, not all caregivers are like that.
Originally Posted by LokiVanguard
+1
Right you are.
This is called: "weakand that they have to know everything that goes on in your life (at least I get this from the EJs). What makes this annoying is that if you do something out of the ordinary just for that reason, they act like you are doing something suspicious and you need to tell them a good answer...".
Some people hate me because I don't quit on certain secrets they try to hide, and I need a certain amount of honesty that not everyone can deal with.
Thank you for saying it like that, though, because at least it makes me feel like nothing is 'wrong with me' for being that way.
"You need to tell them a good answer..." - that sort of sets of red flags. The worst thing you can do is continue lying or try to tell me things that you know I want to hear, because it makes the need to know even worse. I am not sure why this is, probably because we are STs. We don't value Fe like the other caregivers. Andis extremely important. Your ability to be trusted is paramount.
We/I love being needed. I feel lonlely when no one needs me. I feel useless, terrible. I have no direction in my life when I have nothing to protect or serve. Family or other things are easy in this way, because it is "there".... but sometimes (personally) it is hard because I feel like I have nothing to serve or protect (because I feel distanced from my family or other things I can support easily).Though I love caregivers, they have this way of making me dependent on them which I really hate. They can make you feel as if you cannot take care of yourself (which is not true)
In this way, you can see why relationships are extremely important to delta STs....
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Re: Delta Infantiles and Caregivers
Have you had much interaction with ESTJ-Si? They seem less likely to do this from my perception, and less likely to "pry". Maybe ESTJ-Si would not feel as intrusive to you???
I personally like the "Te" questions and I think it is kind of cute, because it seems like they care and it gives me a chance to talk, when usually I am the one listening to everyone else.
As for other Delta caregivers, I am not really into the excessive Si care of SLI-Si or LSE-Si because it seems frivolous to me. (Worrying about physical comfort that much seems to distract from more "serious" issues.) I think my
I have realized this all very recently after having interaction with LSE-Te who I feel protected me completely. Before this I might have thought other caregivers were great!
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
Re: Delta Infantiles and Caregivers
You are an Fi subtype then?
That sounds great - I hope it works out well for you.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Some people don't have anything to hide, they just don't like to reveal their personal lives even if everything they do is sitting at the computer playing videogames.Some people hate me because I don't quit on certain secrets they try to hide, and I need a certain amount of honesty that not everyone can deal with.
Obsequium amicos, veritas odium parit
Re: Delta Infantiles and Caregivers
Yes, I think I probably am an Fi subtype.
You are an Fi subtype then?
That sounds great - I hope it works out well for you.
Sadly, I will probably never see that LSE again.Oh well. . .
EII 4w5
so/sx (?)
tangent: i have seen the delta intuitives fall into dependency traps with their duals. not that this would always happen or anything. i have not seen this at all in alpha though.
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
I'm not entirely sure how I would act in this situation. But since my dads a ESE I tell you how he acts in a caregiving way.
He just sort of gives you the feeling that everything is taken care for you and that you don't have to worry about anything. No anxiety, no problems, don't worry. Just do what you have to (sometimes want to) do and don't worry about any of the scary stuff (it's all taken care of).
He seems to hide anyinformation and that makes it difficult for me to basically operate properly since I always have guess how much money they have or where they are in a administrative process. When ever I ask, I'm always told everything is alright and I don't have to worry (which I buy almost everytime to my disadvantage).
Actually there is a situation that I acted in a caregiving way. It was sort of in a way that warns people of everything that I thought could be a danger including myself to the person I was caregiving for. They coud do whatever they wanted (I wasn't in a dominat position like my dad is with me so it's a bit different), but reality, traps and problems are everywhere. It's not a state of anxiety I'm trying to envoke, just warnings.
I see what you mean. However, I sort of enjoy that, because I sort of am the reciprocal of that.
I have seen one ISTp who basically would do anything for the person she cared about, so it was like the counterpart to that sort of dependency, and I relate. But I can see how the NFs would seem very "dependent" on the STs. It is something I welcome, however.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
yomama
Last edited by betterthandead; 08-02-2008 at 03:36 PM.
Mhm. It goes both ways to some extent, which is very nice.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I met an ENFp today who was talking to me about her husband, who I haven't met, but is most likely her dual.
"He's really serious, all the time. Nothing fazes him much.
If I came home and was like, oh my god I won the nobel peace prize, he'd be like: that's cool."
We're really different, but we work well together. He makes sure I don't go to crazy and drive myself insane... and I make his life exciting with my crazy antics. And together, we're one big whole awesome person."
She's so awesome, she's this makeup artist, video clerk, plus-size model, and she talks alot but is really interesting. She likes science a lot and mentioned how she's subscribed to a scientific magazine monthly, and talked about the string theory, but apologized for not making much sense, and said her husband would explain it so much better than her.
She's my idol. I want to marry her, or her husband, or both! I just want to keep them in my pocket... they sound so cute together!
Apparantly he's looks like a punk rock Anderson Cooper. I think i'm in love.
you may say you hate it, but you know deep down you secretly love it. thank god im an aggressor.
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
I never said I hate it.
I also am extremely content with being a caregiver, and not an aggressor.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
i was talking about sereno... good for u.I never said I hate it.
I also am extremely content with being a caregiver, and not an aggressor.
ESFp-Fi sub
6w7 sx/so/sp
I love this description.
INTp
sx/sp
If I had to give the world one bit of advice about relationships, based on all my experience and research, it would be:
Find someone you can work together with well and not stress yourself out. If you can accomplish tasks together as a team effectively, this is a good sign. If you get stressed out from working on even simple tasks with this person, then you really ought to consider what this means for the success of your relationship over time.
Just a suggestion.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
Waaaay before I knew anything about socionics, I was dating an INTj, and we somehow started talking about our philosophies about relationships. I said something like "I think each person in the relationship should take care of the other..." Whooooaaa, not his philosophy. He got this attitude like I was saying that people should mooch off each other or something. I was perplexed. What, doesn't everyone think this way? Fine. Meditate on your viewpoint while I'm NOT cooking you dinner. NO SOUP FOR YOU!
lol good one. LII's from what i've seen can really struggle in an intimate realtionship.Waaaay before I knew anything about socionics, I was dating an INTj, and we somehow started talking about our philosophies about relationships. I said something like "I think each person in the relationship should take care of the other..." Whooooaaa, not his philosophy. He got this attitude like I was saying that people should mooch off each other or something. I was perplexed. What, doesn't everyone think this way? Fine. Meditate on your viewpoint while I'm NOT cooking you dinner. NO SOUP FOR YOU!
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Lately I 've been wondering if I am really a caregiver. Many times I feel like I am the one who needs "care" and "protection". I often tend to get close with people who are tough and stable and have no problem standing for themselves and will stand for(/by) me when necessary. On the other hand, I do enjoy providing care and being loyal and supportive to others extensively.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
why does this lead you to question your caregiving? wouldn't it just mean that you like to have more than one kind of relationship?
ILE
those who are easily shocked.....should be shocked more often
Well, because I don't know if a caregiver would have such (infantile?) needs and expectations. (like mine)
Maybe. That would make sense.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
As I've said elsewhere, I think in healthy caregiver/infantile relationships, the partners care for each other. It isn't one-sided. My husband loves to be taken care of.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
Thanks for letting me know that, Slacker Mom.
“Whether we fall by ambition, blood, or lust, like diamonds we are cut with our own dust.”
I agree. I love to really take care of someone, but when she is feeling generous or goes out of her way on my behalf, I respect it a lot. It's like a special treat. It is not something I would want all the time, because I like initiating and seducing and so on and so forth. But if she is feeling like she wants to take care of me tonight in some way, by all means I will gladly accept it.As I've said elsewhere, I think in healthy caregiver/infantile relationships, the partners care for each other. It isn't one-sided. My husband loves to be taken care of.
I like being taken care of when I am having a rough time, or am in an otherwise lessened state.
Or, perhaps like a classic scenario, if I am feeling angry or something got me feeling aggressive, and the EII steps in to tell me that I ought to calm down, and she is right. There are lots of different ways that can go... : )
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
QTF, right on the nose.I agree. I love to really take care of someone, but when she is feeling generous or goes out of her way on my behalf, I respect it a lot. It's like a special treat. It is not something I would want all the time, because I like initiating and seducing and so on and so forth. But if she is feeling like she wants to take care of me tonight in some way, by all means I will gladly accept it.As I've said elsewhere, I think in healthy caregiver/infantile relationships, the partners care for each other. It isn't one-sided. My husband loves to be taken care of.
I like being taken care of when I am having a rough time, or am in an otherwise lessened state.
Or, perhaps like a classic scenario, if I am feeling angry or something got me feeling aggressive, and the EII steps in to tell me that I ought to calm down, and she is right. There are lots of different ways that can go... : )
I've read all the posts, and this is what my perception is about this topic. I refuse to be married to a girl who will take care of everything for me. It actually is a complete turn off for me. I have to provide as well, if not, I am not interested. This might have something to do with gender difference though. I do see the INFj-ESTj duality when it involves an INFj woman, but I just don't see for me. I would sooner see myself getting involved with an ISTp or ENFp.
UDP, it really is annoying that being considerably more honest than other people you get interrogated to see if you are doing something sneaky, just because you do something unconventional that isn't bad at all. A huge issue I have with ESTjs is that they are actually the ones concealing the truth. It's not a lie in you asking them about something and they making up an answer (which can actually happen), it's more of "living a lie," making yourself to be something that you are really not. I don't feel like going more into depth though.
The ESTj-Si are not serious enough for me, and I don't know about the Te ones well. For now, I'm not going to pursue ESTjs intentionally.
You're right - I don't think he'd want me to take care of him all the time. He likes to be taken care of, but mostly he likes to be needed. If I were able to take care of him (and myself) that well he'd probably feel less needed. There's usually some catastrophe or another each week for him to take care of though. And a few dozen other less important things.I agree. I love to really take care of someone, but when she is feeling generous or goes out of her way on my behalf, I respect it a lot. It's like a special treat. It is not something I would want all the time, because I like initiating and seducing and so on and so forth. But if she is feeling like she wants to take care of me tonight in some way, by all means I will gladly accept it.As I've said elsewhere, I think in healthy caregiver/infantile relationships, the partners care for each other. It isn't one-sided. My husband loves to be taken care of.
I like being taken care of when I am having a rough time, or am in an otherwise lessened state.
Or, perhaps like a classic scenario, if I am feeling angry or something got me feeling aggressive, and the EII steps in to tell me that I ought to calm down, and she is right. There are lots of different ways that can go... : )
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.-Mark Twain
You can't wake a person who is pretending to be asleep.
That's not a surprise to me. ISTp in general are very weak emotionally speaking and very vulnerable on that area. I think that's the main reason why they complain so much about being alone and such: they unconsciously distance themselves from others in order to avoid getting hurt.
The ideal of love held by the general public leans on the Fe side in my opinion. It's supposed to be based on intense emotions and a constant state of excitation. For that reason I suppose many would find the Fi way of love quite strange: they have a "cold" and relatively unemotional approach to love.
I believe that Fi way of love is some kind of infinite source of benevolence and that's probably what attracts Te types so much: it's a relief from the "dark side" of the world, which they are very well aware of (specially STs).
[]
You know what? You're an individual, and that makes people nervous. And it's gonna keep making people nervous for the rest of your life. - Ole Golly from Harriet, the spy.
Actually, the one thing that make me jealous of ISTps is their ability to tune off certain emotionally charged aspects of life, which is close to impossible for me sometimes. I think that they distance themselves from others because they fear situations where they are expected to be emotional. The fact that they usually are not comfortable with expressing their emotions and being able to "soothe" can hurt people who need it, which consequently hurts them. I think that this is the sequence between NFs and STs: the NF gets hurt first due to sensitivity and desire to emotionally connect, which then causes the ST to hurt because of what it did to the NF, and not knowing what to do.mikemex Posted: Sat Dec 08, 2007 2:06 am Post subject:
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Winterpark wrote:
Lately I 've been wondering if I am really a caregiver. Many times I feel like I am the one who needs "care" and "protection". I often tend to get close with people who are tough and stable and have no problem standing for themselves and will stand for(/by) me when necessary. On the other hand, I do enjoy providing care and being loyal and supportive to others extensively.
That's not a surprise to me. ISTp in general are very weak emotionally speaking and very vulnerable on that area. I think that's the main reason why they complain so much about being alone and such: they unconsciously distance themselves from others in order to avoid getting hurt.
The ideal of love held by the general public leans on the Fe side in my opinion. It's supposed to be based on intense emotions and a constant state of excitation. For that reason I suppose many would find the Fi way of love quite strange: they have a "cold" and relatively unemotional approach to love.
I believe that Fi way of love is some kind of infinite source of benevolence and that's probably what attracts Te types so much: it's a relief from the "dark side" of the world, which they are very well aware of (specially STs).
ISTp and ENFp couple I know wrote:
She's overly childish at times. She (...). But what I adore about her is that, despite of all, she's a good person and that's invaluable...
Personally, I am well aware of the darker side of life, and I do see when things will probably not go towards a "good" place. If this is Ni, then it is one of my commonly used functions. For example. this will sound strange, but at times I will see someone in real life and then have an image of them lying in their death bed, their "eventual destination." I always try to see where certain behaviors will take people in their lives, either negatively or positively. I am sure that some images and thoughts that come up in my mind will depress the more "down to earth" who are not used to such thoughts since it offers absolutely no hope for the future at times. I keep these thoughts to myself, especially when dealing with ISTps, ESTjs and ESFjs, since I know that it might depress them, and in the mean time, I work on understanding the "sequence" better. In a way, I feel like I am paving the future for them without them realizing it, and it feels good to me.
mhm
Care to explain? Sounds like you have some specific example you are referring to.UDP, it really is annoying that being considerably more honest than other people you get interrogated to see if you are doing something sneaky, just because you do something unconventional that isn't bad at all.
I personally don't care who you are, I interrogate most people - your reputation for honesty is meaningless... unless you have really shown and proven to me things over time. But I am not one to be un-suspicious about people.
Why not?A huge issue I have with ESTjs is that they are actually the ones concealing the truth. It's not a lie in you asking them about something and they making up an answer (which can actually happen), it's more of "living a lie," making yourself to be something that you are really not. I don't feel like going more into depth though.
Sounds like you have some baggage here or something, eh?
We've had different experiences, Sereno. I don't know what to say. You apparently have had some negative ESTj issues - that's fine.The ESTj-Si are not serious enough for me, and I don't know about the Te ones well. For now, I'm not going to pursue ESTjs intentionally.
You want a serious Te ESTj?
Let's talk sometime.
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about someone interrogating me in general that way. Though, reputation and consistency of character to me is everything, and I do it to deserve trust, which bothers me if I'm not getting it. An example is if I decide to go to somewhere different, and I keep getting questions as to why I'm going, and in a way that implies that I might be doing something sneaky. The idea of someone being suspicious about my activities is insulting, since I have basically no-ill will. This is probably a good reason as to why someone is suspicious of sneaky behavior, because they are capable of doing it as well.UDP Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:05 am Post subject:
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Care to explain? Sounds like you have some specific example you are referring to.Quote:
UDP, it really is annoying that being considerably more honest than other people you get interrogated to see if you are doing something sneaky, just because you do something unconventional that isn't bad at all.
I personally don't care who you are, I interrogate most people - your reputation for honesty is meaningless... unless you have really shown and proven to me things over time. But I am not one to be un-suspicious about people.
That's why, and I don't want to explain any further, sorry.Quote:
Why not?A huge issue I have with ESTjs is that they are actually the ones concealing the truth. It's not a lie in you asking them about something and they making up an answer (which can actually happen), it's more of "living a lie," making yourself to be something that you are really not. I don't feel like going more into depth though.
Sounds like you have some baggage here or something, eh?
I love the personality, but it's hard to be attracted to the actual people. I just have to meet more than all the ones I've already met, though ESTj girls I've met only a few. By serious I don't mean the absence of fun, more like not taking certain things seriously. Again, though I've had negative perceptions of ESTjs, it doesn't mean I hate all of them, I just need a good break of this socionics-mathematical theory and the interrelational thing. I'm guessing it has a lot Ti which is bothering and tiring meWe've had different experiences, Sereno. I don't know what to say. You apparently have had some negative ESTj issues - that's fine.Quote:
The ESTj-Si are not serious enough for me, and I don't know about the Te ones well. For now, I'm not going to pursue ESTjs intentionally.
You want a serious Te ESTj?
Let's talk sometime.. Going more into detail is unnecessary.
*editing*
Posts I wrote in the past contain less nuance.
If you're in this forum to learn something, be careful. Lots of misplaced toxicity.
~an extraverted consciousness is unable to believe in invisible forces.
~a certain mysterious power that may prove terribly fascinating to the extraverted man, for it touches his unconscious.
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